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Arm Injuries in Young Players that impact their future

G GFBBSBMember
I'm sharing my son's and family's story in the hope that it will prevent an injury and not cut short a player's baseball playing time/"career".

When my son was 11 and 12 he pitched on a travel team. I didn't know that much about pitch counts. To be honest, I didn't give pitch counts a second thought. I should have.

In any event, my son pitched alot. A really lot. He would pitch on a Saturday and pitch on a Sunday. At 11, he pitched in a lot of games at Disney and at 12, he pitched in a lot of games at Cooperstown.

The team disbanded after the 12 yo season, and at 13 and 14 my son went to pitch for another team, which has placed several players at D1 schools. That team and the coach did not overpitch him, but the damage was done before he joined the team.

When he was 14, something popped in his elbow when he was pitching. His pitch sailed over the back stop and he felt a tightness in his elbow. Bottom line is that a bone pulled away from his elbow and the bone had to be screwed back in.

Fast forward 4 years. My son's elbow bothered him off and on for four years and he had to go through several regimens of physical therapy. He pitched in JV without issue his Freshman and Sophomore years. His junior year he was scheduled to start a few games but his arm bothered him.

This year, his senior, he started the first three games at first base and did well. He pitched against against a team for one inning and walked one and struck out three without giving up a run.

However, after the third game, his arm started hurting him again. He waited to see if it would get better. It didn't and he went to the doctor. By then it was too late; the doctor said pt could only get him ready by the time the season was over.

My son loved being a part of a team and overall the seaon was a positive for him because of the comaraderie, but I wonder how much better it would have been if he had been physically able to play. I am proud that for the past six or so weeks he went to every practice and stuck with it. He didn't quit.

I'll never forget what one of my friends said. he told me that he didn't want his son to be the best pitcher at 11, 12, 13 or 14, but wanted him to be the best pitcher at 18. His son will be playing at a D1 school next year. My son's baseball playing time is over. I wonder what might have been if I protected him better.

With all of that being said, my son did get into a great college with a competitive program. He is excited about that, and new challenges await him. His baseball playing time and dealing with his injury will only make him stronger in life,
Last edited {1}
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R.GrahamR.Graham1,000+ posts
The first line of defense for protecting young arms is the coach. Frankly, that line of defense has failed to protect children for a generation. The coach who knows how to properly utilize a pitching staff is extremely rare. The evolution and popularization of the travel ball universe has made the problem epidemic.

I will tell you this - if your travel coach has your pre-pubescent son pitching on consecutive days during a weekend tournament after throwing any more than 25 pitches on the first day then he is risking your child's long term arm health.

And that doesn't mean he can roll 25 on saturday and then toss another 75 on sunday. All of these kids are playing multiple positions and their bodies just can't take the repetitive abuse without the proper recovery time.

And that is the most important element of this entire issue - adequate recovery time. Mechanics matter, of course, but it's the short rest and exponential damage done on tired arms that create the long-term degradation that leads to catastrophic injury.

Adequate rest between mound appearances and extended layoffs between seasons are the only solution to this problem.
C ctandc500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by bkwl:
redbird- sure you've said this 1000 times but what are your thoughts on age to start throwing breaking pitches?


I’m not redbird, obviously, but the “Breaking Ball” argument is getting stale.

AMSI preached the no breaking ball doctrine for younger pitchers, for years. Until their own studies proved that PROPERLY THROWN breaking balls aren’t any more dangerous than any other pitches.

The BIGGEST danger for young arms is overuse from PITCHING TOO MUCH. I’ve emphasized pitching, because it’s not the same as throwing. There is a difference.

I always figured this was the case, but had only my own experiences to prove it, and that isn’t scientific by any means. When my arm was tired, it was EASIER to throw a breaking ball. It took MORE effort to throw a fastball.
joemktgjoemktg5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by R.Graham:
And that doesn't mean he can roll 25 on saturday and then toss another 75 on sunday. All of these kids are playing multiple positions and their bodies just can't take the repetitive abuse without the proper recovery time.
And there's the huge issue: playing positions during these tournaments before and after pitching without adequate rest and recovery, and I haven't seen any research on this in any way whatsoever with regards to position play limitations pre/post pitching. You usually see rosters of 11-14 players for the 11U-14U age groups, and the better teams will go 4-5 games deep into tournaments: do the math, and it says a pitcher needs to play positions.

So FWIW, I consulted with a few HS coaches, professional trainers, and professional instructors, and came up with my own guidelines regarding this issue last year, given the fact that joemktgson is a MIF (primarily SS) who plays in a ton of tournaments. This is what I use to communicate with joemktgson's 14U coaches, and we keep him at these limits:




To reiterate: these are our guidelines. And during the weekend we may ratchet it back based on the way he's feeling. I'm broaching this as one way to approach this issue: use at your own risk. REGARDLESS: as a parent or coach, you must have guidelines in place to protect your player.
Last edited by joemktg
LB luv baseball5,000+ posts
Overuse is a given. The breaking ball discussion if it ends up revolving on a 10 or 11 year old repeating PROPER mechanics argues against throwing it. No reason to mess with it at 11 or 12. There is plenty of time to master it with good coaching at 14. A young pitcher spending his time mastering control of his fastball and getting some control over a change up will give them plenty to work on.
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
Overuse is a definite, major problem but also a topic that has already been exhausted here.

There is another problem brewing, however. I recently visited our local Little League fields to watch a nephew play for the first time in a while. There were games rolling on all 4 fields of a quad complex. Among the 8 teams involved, probably close to 100 different players in action, I was not able to find even one who had been taught how to throw a baseball properly.

We've dumbed down Little League to the point that I'm not sure anyone should put their kid into it. The crowd that wants to treat a competitive sports experience as nothing more than a chance to play dress-up, take pictures, give everyone a trophy and then have a nice snack seems to have finally succeeded in driving the baseball out of baseball.

I don't have any objection to nice uniforms, pictures, snacks or trophies. But these kids have all sorts of other activities options available to them. If they choose to devote their time to baseball, and if their parents pay to have them play baseball, shouldn't someone put SOME effort into teaching them about baseball?
fenwaysouthfenwaysouth10,000+ posts
quote:
warrior2014dad said....At what point is the player and the parent responsible for stopping the overuse?
When they join a travel, Little League, Middle School, High School or College baseball team. This is absolutely a case of trust and verify. Parents, players and coaches need to be on the same page with specific measurable pitch count limits.

I also think it is unnecessary to throw breaking balls until 14 years old regardless of the recent studies and evidence.
Last edited by fenwaysouth
B bkwl10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by redbird5:
quote:
Originally posted by bkwl:
redbird- sure you've said this 1000 times but what are your thoughts on age to start throwing breaking pitches?


I taught our kids how to throw them around 12u but didn't let them throw them in 'pens until they started maturing (around 14u). Instead, we focused on the CU.


see i always thought 14 was soon enough but the new school seems to be pitch count is the criteria. just not sure i buy it. no data but my anecdotal evidence says that most of the surgeries i've seen are on kids that might have thrown too much, but also threw curves early. not saying mechanics aren't the issue- just not sure at 10, 11, 12, a kid is capable of developing the muscle memory to do it the same/right way every time.... thanks for the input.
B bxbomber100+ posts
I have said this a number of times before and even written Little League on this matter. The pitch count is an abused exercise to indemnify themselves as protecting their pitchers. They marvel at the pitcher in the LL World Series throwing from the stretch and how he must play on a travel team. How Little League has a strict pitch count to follow. Yet they fail to mention that while Johnny is limited to 75 pitches and then required a number of days off, he pitched for his travel team on Saturday and Sunday. Those pitches do not count. Very few coaches will follow a strict pitch count. We know Centreville HS does not. Never heard of a kid placed on a D1 team as a 14 or 15 yo.

Two things I remember and used with my own. 1: A doctor told my father not to let me be a running back on the ankle biters teams. Wait until at least 95lbs when the knees and ankles are more solid. I was a pulling guard. 2: Do not throw a curve until HS, make the change-up the second pitch of choice and limit the number of pitches thrown each week. Did not matter much I was a catcher. Even with the best Coach, know the game and take care of your own ballplayer.
N NOVABBall13100+ posts
Not sure that the first line of defense is, or even should be, the coach. I think that the parents need to take a more active role.

I have seen players who pitched for multiple teams during the summer. None of the coaches knew what the kid's schedule was for the other team so it made it impossible for any of the coaches to make the right decisions. The parents simply loved the idea that there kid was the "star" out on the mound.

I know one kid in particular whose Dad used to sit beside me during travel games and talk about how great a pitcher his son was. At the time I believe he told me that he was pitching for 3 teams. Amazingly enough I heard last season that he had blown out his arm in HS and wasn't pitching anymore. Go figure...

I think that it has GOT to start with the parents. How many times does a parent have to watch their kid throw 140+ pitches in a high school game before they walk over to the coach and say "Enough is enough"? It probably doesn't happen simply because the parent doesn't want to endanger their son's status on the rotation and that's too bad...

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