Arm Slot

I don't know if they should be messing with his arm slot. Have they given a reason why? Where is his arm slot in long toss? That is the most natural way for him to throw and that should be his arm slot. Unless they see something detrimental to his health or pitching ability, I would suggest they leave his slot alone.

I agree. I wouldn't try to change his arm slot. Arm slot is what it is. If you try to change it, you are asking for trouble, both in terms of control and potential injury. You are asking the body to do something unnatural.

You may want to get him to experiment with his grip on the ball and maybe even the angle of his wrist when he throws. These things may give him more movement on his fastball which is all the coaches are really looking for.

dont let any coaches mess with his arm slot. Like tom house says the arm slot belongs to the pitcher. Many coaches want me to throw from the low 3/4 slot to get movement but i dont do it cuz i have trouble throwing inside and throwing a breaking ball from that slot. If your son can throw quality strikes with 2 pitches from that arm angle dont change anything.

quote:

Originally posted by spizzlepop:
Son has a high arm slot and he's enjoyed good success. He's had coaches try to lower the slot, and every time the results have been mixed- more movement and less control. It's happening again. I wish they would just leave him be, but I'm not his coach. I'm wondering if this may be a muscle memory issue, and he's just not comfortable releasing the ball. Any suggestions for improving the feel for a lower slot?

Spiz,
Is it an adjustment or a very big change?
In sons draft year, they made a small adjustment for adding velo, it took a while to feel comfortable, and he lost some of the control in the process in the beginning. As a sophmore they made a slight adjustment so all of his pitches looked the same coming from one slot.
Pitching is all about making adjustments. It may not be the first, it may not be the last. And he has to trust his coaches, that's why he chose to go play there.

Is is something that has to be worked on, he should ask why and know the reason. Like everything else he needs to work on it and he has time, that's why they do these things in the fall.
Tell him to keep working hard.

Sometimes there are compelling situations that require a change in arm slot. The arm slot change can come in the form of a posture adjustment. A "natural" arm slot does not mean the supporting mechanics are efficient, and to say that an arm slot is an area not to mess with, is not very good advice.

cap_n,

More an adjustment I suppose, and son doesn't have a problem with coach. More a problem with himself for not being able to pull it off. I really don't have a problem other than knowing it's been tried in the past and failed. I heard the frustration in his voice, but not so much today. He was heading in to watch film and try to see what happened. I know he'll keep after it, if coach wanted him to throw between his legs he'd do it. I'm just wondering if there's some helpful advice out there that would make this easier.

The helpful advice is let your son and his coach work it out, great that he will be going over film, it's a great tool for them.
I understand your concerns, been there myself. My husband had some tough times with adjustments they made, why fix something that's not broke. But it all worked out well, was a struggle, but it ain't supposed to be easy.

I would wonder how high his arm slot was and the required adjustment. If he was throwing high-high-3/4 with the ball closer to his ear I could understand an adjustment to a more standard high-3/4, just as an example. These coaches are probably looking to do what's right for your son's arm health. I wouldn't worry about it not working right away.

Not enough information has been provided to pass judgement although I will say that changing a pitcher's arm slot solely for the sake of changing the arm slot to one that a coach prefers is not appropriate, IMHO.

While I don't normally mess with a pitcher's arm slot, I certainly will address postural issues as cap_n mentioned and that may indirectly change a pitcher's arm slot.

Wait a minute, Roger. Aren't we talking about college coaches? They are paid professionals with (hopefully) credentials. It is not only their job to assess and recruit talent but also coach that talent and make any adjustments that they feel appropriate. They are well within their rights.

It may be within their rights, but not all coaches are created equal. Some are better than others.

Depending on what needs to be done (and how to go about getting there), there is potential for a lot of bad decisions to be made.

You see it at EVERY level of baseball.

Having said that, I agree with Cap_n that some adjustments (posture etc) can help create a more efficient way of throwing the ball.

I was never saying that adjustments can't be made. There is always room for improvement. Mechanics will always need adjustments. To me changing an arm slot (as a general statement) is a pretty major change. I am a believer that everyone has a natural arm slot. A path the arm takes from point A to point B. To change that is a pretty major change. To change posture, length of stride, making sure you stay behind the ball at release, etc. are all adjustments. I don't think arm slot is an adjustment, it is a major change. I think the best coaches take what they have and try to make it better. Trying to rework the whole package is generally not the way to go. JMHO.

I also believe that adjustment can be made, but as Roger stated, maybe not enough info here. Maybe a before and after video would help. We'd all like to think we can make a difference when working with a pitcher, but we must also be careful not to put pitchers in a box when looking at their mechanics and I think many here realize that. I guess we are just all asking if its just an arm slot change for the sake of it, or a mechanical or postural adjustment with good sound reasoning behind the move.

quote:

Originally posted by Bum:
Wait a minute, Roger. Aren't we talking about college coaches? They are paid professionals with (hopefully) credentials. It is not only their job to assess and recruit talent but also coach that talent and make any adjustments that they feel appropriate. They are well within their rights.

Don't know what level coach we're talking about as Spizzlepop didn't say and I don't know what level Spizzlepop's kid is at.

Also, I wasn't commenting on what is or isn't within the coach's job description. It seemed to me that the OP was questioning the validity or rationale behind changing his son's arm slot so I was just saying I don't agree with arm slot changes solely because the pitcher doesn't fit a coach's "lense". To me, that's a red flag possibly indicating the coach is trying to make the pitcher fit a cookie-cutter mold instead of adapting to the pitcher. There's got to be a better reason to change an arm slot.

But, again, the OP didn't really provide enough information to pass judgement on the actions of his kid's coach. There very well may be a good reason behind the arm slot change.

quote:

Originally posted by Coachric:
I guess we are just all asking if its just an arm slot change for the sake of it, or a mechanical or postural adjustment with good sound reasoning behind the move.

Spizzle's son is in college and this is not his first year.
Sometimes college coaches will let you play for a season to see where you may have had some issues, and then makes some adjustments, which may just be some tweaking. As I stated, there were no changes in son first year, but then in the fall of his sophmore year they made adjustments to slot, and the year after as well (fall).

You have to let your son be coached. I know its tough especially when they tell you they are not comfortble with the changes. But the fact is the coaches are trying to make him better and doing what they feel will make him better. It will all shake out. If he can not make the change they will eventually settle on the original slot. This happens all the time to pitchers in college. It happens to hitters all the time. My son always loaded back and up at the same time. Now he loads back only. Why? Because thats what his college coach wants so that is what he will do. It will work out. Its just part of the process and part of the deal.

quote:

You have to let your son be coached. I know its tough especially when they tell you they are not comfortble with the changes. But the fact is the coaches are trying to make him better and doing what they feel will make him better. It will all shake out. If he can not make the change they will eventually settle on the original slot.

....or accompany your son to surgery for TJ because of ignorance, arrogance or both. It is EXTREMELY hard for a thrower to make change, and the older the athlete, the more difficult the process.

What do you suggest then?

I guess the parent could always tell the coach what needs to be done.

quote:

What do you suggest then?

I guess the parent could always tell the coach what needs to be done.

Jump in with both feet, learn as much as you can about the act of throwing hard, compare that to pro pitchers on the tube and see how the instructors fair up to what you see by the answers they give you. My experience with pro's in instruction have proven to me that they have good intentions and want to help, but don't know how to communicate, or worse, can't adjust to the student. The majority rely on House et al, but this instruction is always being updated due to new findings. Bottom line, they haven't understood what they need to teach from the very beginning. Eventually they'll get it, they're narrowing the guide rails.

Thanks for the input everyone, and here's an update. It's gotten a little better. He reported that last night he went three IP, missed some bats, and walked only one. His velo actually went up a notch and his curve is moving more. I'm gonna miss that 12-6 action. That's just me being a dad.
He said that his arm (shoulder)got a little tired and he caught himself moving back up as he fatigued. This is what he's going to have to work through, and what I was most interested in hearing about. I think long toss from the lower slot will eventually help with that.