Arm Slots

floridafan, i speak from personal experience, so it might be different for your son in this case. but to answer your questions:

1. yes, batters who are used to seeing the ball delivered from one spot a couple of times in the at bat have to adjust their eyes when the ball doesn't come from that same arm slot.

2. When you say dropping his elbow, are you speaking of his 3/4 arm slot or is he dropping his elbow even more? in either case, i have found that trying to throw with a cartwheel-like motion, focusing on coming over the top has led to velocity increases for me. although i never actually get all the way "over the top", i do keep my elbow up so to speak.

It sounds like he has problems repeating his delivery. Try this drill: From the stretch position and on flat ground have him stride about 1/2 as much as normal. Upon foot plant have him freeze and inspect his elbow position, making sure it is high enough. Have him do this 30-40 times until it is repeated well.

I am not a big fan of multiple arm slots (because of repeatability problems) but there are guys who are successful doing it.

At a minimum, by throwing each pitch from a different arm slot he is tipping his pitches.

Regarding repeatability (or lack thereof), I'd look at repeatability of other aspects of his mechanics including posture, momentum, knee lift, stride length, etc.

Weare going to see if we can find his one natural slot and stick with that. Then maybe we can focus on velocity or something else.

Shouldn't be to difficult.

Just pick up a rock and throw it...natural arm slot.

My son was always told that his arm slot was too low and it would end up hurting his elbow. He is a low 3/4 arm slot pitcher who at times drops down almost to a technically sidearm slot. Sometimes it varries several inches and sometimes he can pitch harder from a higher slot and sometimes from a slightly lower slot.

I do not worry about it because results are always the real deal answere. My son has been playing for three years now and has become the best and most accurate arm in his area. Others can match his speed, but not his ability to locate and endure in long innings. I atribute this to just letting him throw from whatever arm slot he feels most comfortable throwing.

There have been many pitchers at the pro level who change arm slots to keep batters guessing and also to relieve the arm during long innings or at-bats. Changing arm slots naturally has never been shown to cause a loss of velocity or arm injury. If the pitchers always try to realize that their pitching arm angle should always be exactly perpindicular to their body (90 degree angle to body) they should never encounter arm injury or loss of velocity problems.

Pitchers who are most suseptible to arm injury are the ones who force their arms to throw outside of that 90 degree slot. Parents and coaches who ride young pitchers to "come over the top" and change their natural arm slot will cause the failure to naturally throw.

I say. Leave the natural pitcher alone. Best advice- Go out there, get comfortaable and throw lights out!

Mine had 2 different arm slots in HS.

By senior he realized that he needed to correct that. The corrections were done by his college pitching coach and took a long time for him to adjust and not think about it.

A good hitter who studies the pitcher learns what pitch is coming just from his arm slot. Now the pitcher is not as successful anymore. In HS some can get away with it. In college too.

The object is to have a repeatable delivery as Bum states, so the batter has no clue what's coming until he sees the ball leave the pitchers hands or later.

You are on the right track, you need to find a slot he is comfortable with and causes less stress and most likely a good pitching instructor can help.

The earlier you start the better in his development.

Gingerbreadman, I don't believe a low-3/4 arm slot necessarily causes "arm problems". In fact, it might be superior in that it creates accentuated movement. If your son's natural arm slot is low-3/4 I'd say go with that!

Over-the-top arm slots, IMHO pose the greatest risk, but keep in mind the lower the arm slot the greater the movement but the harder it is to command. That's why high-3/4 seems to be optimum.

Bum,

I totally agree with ya on that. I have never had any desire to change what arm slot my son throws from. He is now 12 yrs. old and is throwing very hard with a lot of running action on the fastball. The only problem now is locating that pitch in the strike zone as it tends to run right in on right handers. One of the strange things is that his fastball doesn't always run, sometimes it turns into a heavy sinker instead with no side running movement. I have tried in vain to find out what he is doing differently so that we can duplicate each pitch on call. It may be that he is just growing and that arm slot or release is ever so slightly different causing the difference.

Whatever it is, he has gotten a lot of comments that he will hurt his arm throwing like that causing so much movement. I actually didn't have a whole great desire to coach him until the comments got so overbearing that I finally decided to coach him to protect his natural arm. I tend to think that there is an old school tradition (little league old school eh eh) to make every kid pitch "over the top". I have never been to a game where the coach or a dad isn't yelling out- "over the top, over the top" when that arm slot lowers. They will then generally comment on how it will hurt the arm if they don't throw "over the top".

So what I commonly see now in little league and the trveling teams is that there are a lot of kids who literally come "over the top". Their poor little heads are almost grinding into the ground to get this arm slot. They also have to put in so much effort with body parts going everywhere that I wonder if these kids are just one step away from injury. I try to keep telling parents and coaches alike that most professional pitchers throw from a 3/4 delivery with some in the low 3/4 and some in the high 3/4 and most in that 10:00 oclock position. Very few professional pitchers throw from an "over the top" slot where the arm release is between 11-12 oclock. So if the pros dont do it on average, why do we teach our kids to? It has always intrigued me!

I do think you are correct in that it must be that early on they need to throw "strikes" and can achieve this quicker with a higher arm slot, but it seems to defeat the purpose if they are throwing from an un-nautral arm slot. Is this why left handers almost always throw from a low 3/4 slot? Is it that they are unique enough that parents and coaches leave them alone?

If a kid can throw a curve and a slider for a strike, is there any reason to give up one of these pitches and focus on one or the other?

floridafan, yes, there are occasions where it would behoove a kid to change from a curve to a slider, or vice versa. I know college coaches prefer a slider but IMHO this is due to a) the slider being harder to recognize from a fastball and b) it is somewhat harder to locate the curve. Having said that, IMHO a good, hard-breaking curve is much harder to hit. So if a kid can locate it, it is superior to the slider.

Now, a kid could "throw a curve for a strike" but if it is a loopy curve that hangs it can be hit a long, long ways. That same "strike" in high school is a 3-run dinger in college. But if the curve has a sharp 2-plane break, don't change it. In fact, sliders hung in college are hit a long ways too!

Gingerbreadman, how hard is your son throwing? Make sure he is staying closed and he should be okay. Hopefully, he is not throwing too many innings as a 12 y.o. Have him long-toss, find the best pitching coach you can, keep him in good shape, and above all make sure he's having fun and enjoying the game.

Bum,

I am not sure exactly what he is throwing this year as it is very early and no games have been played yet. Last fall he was throwing low 60's and cruising around 60-61. His top speed was 63. His changup was anywhere from 50-54. He will not pitch as much this year as he did last year which I am greatful for. Last year he was pitching way too much on his traveling team and developed a lot of foot and ankle pain due to his growth plates in his feet and growing spurts.

Can you post front view video clips of each pitch?

FF -

Just to share my experience with regards to your following question:

quote:

Any other ideas that can help my Son?

Does your son throw a change up?

My son attended his first instructional college camp as a rising sophmore at WVU.... They had several rostered pitchers working the camp, a redshirt freshman pitcher and an alumni pitcher who was a former minor league pitcher...

There was tremendous emphasis placed on the change up...

The red shirt freshman told my son point blank the reason he was red shirting was that his change up was not developed to a Division 1 level....

My son's pitching coach has spent a great deal of time perfecting his change-up which now behaves much like a slider... It has really developed into a very effective pitch....

It is also interseting to note that my son, this past Winter, tried out for a summer team coached by a former Clemson player (he was a positional player, not a pitcher) who during the try out told my son the deadlist and most feared pitch in Div. 1 baseball is the change......

Sorry I can't offer more with regard to the mechanical aspects of your question, but then again I don't need to, looks like you've rec'd some very good advice already....

Good Luck!

quote:

So what I commonly see now in little league and the trveling teams is that there are a lot of kids who literally come "over the top". Their poor little heads are almost grinding into the ground to get this arm slot. They also have to put in so much effort with body parts going everywhere that I wonder if these kids are just one step away from injury.

The pitcher from the Curacao team that was in the LLWS a few years ago threw over the top like you've described (head and shoulders tilted way over). He recently had Tommy John surgery.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a low arm slot. I've seen some side-armers who had a habit of opening up early but that's a timing problem - not an arm slot problem. But many youth coaches don't understand timing nor how to correct such issues.

I've also seen some kids with low arm slots tend to supinate their pitched. But that's either a strength issue, a grip issue, or just a bad habit.