At what level does is it become fair for the media to criticize?

When they start playing for pay. Leave the criticism before that to college fans message boards...

I agree with JT for on the field performance, public (media) criticism should not be allowed until they start playing for a check. Scathing remarks can be hard on a young person, and often tougher on the parents.
With regards to behavior, correcting bad behavior in the SA is the domain of the head coach. If the player's behavior is totally unacceptable, and that behavior goes uncorrected then a bit of media heat can be a major force in correcting said behavior. Shame is a powerful social punishment, and it must be used appropriately.

I read an article in SI that was about 2 brothers one in MLB and one in MiLB. In reality each brother loved, respected and admired the other.... SI took what was said twisted and slanted it into the story the writer wanted.It was horrible.

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When does an athlete's non-performance behavior or perceived behavior become fair game?

To the level of " a parent's heart ",......it's never fair game.

Some might argue that college scholarship players should be fair game for criticism.

What is the purpose of pointing out the negative? Does it sell more papers? There is definitely a difference between being informative vs. being demeaning.

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Some might argue that college scholarship players should be fair game for criticism.

That's an interesting point. With scholarship players (and varying awards) playing alongside non-scholarship players on the same field would they argue for varying degrees of immunity as well?

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Originally posted by justbaseball:
Is this too early to write articles such as these? Is college ok? I certainly 'accept' that its going to happen there and beyond.

When does an athlete's non-performance behavior or perceived behavior become fair game?

I have mixed emotions on that subject and they spring from me being an SK and also someone who does a play-by-play after every game, and sends in the newspaper articles for the HS baseball team.

In my play-by-play, I’ve always made it a point to keep the personal negative things to an absolute minimums. FI, very seldom will I mention one of our guy’s striking out in a crucial situation, or mention the players name who made an error. But, that newsletter is pointed directly at the players and their families, and isn’t meant to be an unbiased piece.

But the newspaper articles are something completely different. That gets to be a lot more like keeping score. In order to say something really good about a player on offense, you’re automatically saying something bad about a player on defense. How does one say a player got 5 hits and drove in 8 runs without that showing up in the box score against the pitchers?

What its come down to for me is, if mommy and daddy like to clap their hands and point proudly to the newspaper or magazine article of their little one getting lots of ink on a good day, they have to be ready, willing, and able to suck it up and take it when he had a day when he stunk it up or did something foolish too.

Its extremely difficult to say a lot of positive things when your team got blasted 18-2 in 5 innings!

as long as it's about the game and the truth, i think a little reality can't hurt. i think it can toughen the boy's up some.

my son's have had some less than glowing press in the sports page's. it can be a great motivator,as long as it's not the first time they've heard it.

you can;t really expect good write up's, without acepting the bad ones. imo

Bad press is never good, but I agree, when it becomes a job and you are being paid for it by ticket sales or by a team, I think you are opening yourself up to commentary in the press.

Wins and losses, errors, stats, etc at the youth level are going to happen in the local papers, but personal attacks and negative commentary by the local papers are going too far in youth, high school, and college articles.

The article about a youth player and what happened to their high school coach is way out of line and needed to be handle out of the press.

Very good topic justbaseball. I have thought about this quite often as my son's baseball career had peaks and valleys (as most do) and many times I prepared for the "bad press" but it really never happened. I think for the most part the sports media is as Fox news says --- "fair and balanced". Many parents on the other hand -- are not. If a parent is realistic about their son's performance and he has a bad outing on the mound and the press reports that "Little Johnny has bad outing on the mound" then no feathers are ruffled. However if a parent finds fault with the catcher, the umpire, the lack of offensive support from his teammates when their son takes the loss, then they are offended when the media reports the facts and they perceive it as "negative press".
As a parent there were days I didn't read the newspapers (especially the "away" series) and there are college games of which I have TV recordings that I don't review simply because the actual events were not pleasant --- No fault of the reporters --- just a bad performances and not fun to watch.

One area of "press" that puzzles me is college media guides. Some media guides critique their own players by giving examples of poor stats and bad performances. I think this results from a "tough coach" when asked about a particular players performance or what he sees for the player in the next year and in answering he can be very insensitive. Then the inexperienced "reporter" prints this stuff in the media guide and substantiates the harsh remarks with stats.
Fungo

I believe this is part of the game also, that player's and parent's must learn to deal with.
I can see why players get a tough , combative stance towards the media.
Those that can Grin and bear it have learned to let it roll off like water on a duck's back.
EH

Being a realistic parent is very important. And recognizing and knowing that your son/daughter had a less than steller perfomance is part of the deal. No excuse making allowed.
But when others ( including the media ) shout it out loud from the roof tops or across the airways, it can make a parent start to twitch, no matter how thick their skin is.

In our area at the HS level, the tone of any article is generally dictated by the coach of the player. i.e. he wants to send the kid a messege so he gives a negative comment to the reporter...he wants to praise the kid, he gives the appropriate comment to the reporter.... I don't see the media going after players unless there is an obvious on field problem and/or the coach has something negative to say.

More often I see a supportive article about a HS player that is missing important critical info!!

At the 4 year college level it seems reporters and radio annouchers are "learning the trade" and can be very quick to judge and critize a player, especially when they don't understand the game.

--I stopped listening to internet college level broadcasts as the student announchers ripped the wrong players for plays gone bad, had a little league understanding of strategy, and made uniformed comments/assumptions/speculation about players w/o asking the player first or ever.

To answer your question I think its fair to critixe starting at the college level......as long as you know what you're talking about and are accurate

Once a player is playing for money and that includes college scholarships, it's fair game.

Not so much high school only because most players aren't going pro getting college money to play and media coverage of high school ball is spotty at best. However, top sought-after high school players are open to bad press as well as the good. They'll all just have to learn to deal with it or find something else to do.

fair? what is fair. I always was told if you take praise you better learn to take criticism as well. It is about exposure. If nobody is there to see it or report it then? Perspective and importance. Turn on the TV this week and even last with the regional coverage we have coverage of 12 year old boys playing baseball. How did that evolve? some people say it is great when things go well but change their tune if something does not. Can't have it both ways.

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Originally posted by Will:
fair? what is fair. I always was told if you take praise you better learn to take criticism as well. It is about exposure. If nobody is there to see it or report it then? Perspective and importance. Turn on the TV this week and even last with the regional coverage we have coverage of 12 year old boys playing baseball. How did that evolve? some people say it is great when things go well but change their tune if something does not. Can't have it both ways.

I totally agree. Once they get the attention, everybody loves it. Especially the parents. If they can't take the good with the bad, don't participate.

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I always was told if you take praise you better learn to take criticism as well.

Good point.

With age comes wisdom. It has to do with experience not so much book learning. You sort of figure out who you can trust etc etc. I think the earlier you experience things both good and bad the better it is. However the problem today is that there is the cant make anybody feel bad syndrome so we sugar coat everything. You know everybody gets a trophy and all that. My experience as a player was one of tough coaches who let you have it if you did not do things well. It never bothered me. I sort of brought that to my coaching experience many years ago. Of course as the years went on I toned things down but there were times when I went off. Being out of it for over 10 years I doubt very much I could survive in todays atmosphere. It would probably take one time expressing my displeasure at something and I would be called on the carpet. Just an opinion.

the question asked was at what level does it become fair for the media.......
I think the best advice to give a young person today is that life is not fair and to think it ever will be is going to bite you. Sounds cruel I know but that is just the way it is.

Something happened the first year I coached high school. I was still wet behind the ears. we were very successful and there was this fan who after a win would come up and congratulate me on doing such a fine job etc etc etc. You know the pat on the back. I was stupid and flatterd by such praise. We won the league championship and went on to the finals. we did not do well and my strting pitcher was getting roughed up. as I went out to the mound to remove him I heard a loud voice coming from the stands showing his displeasurwe saying something like it is about time you took him out etc etc etc. Yes it was the same guy who was shaking my hand congratulating me when things were going well. Lesson learned early.

I am not sure that JBB was referring to game performance rather things that happen that are not related to the game. In the examples he used, I am not sure if there is a right or wrong answer. You have to learn that there is always the bad that comes with the good stuff. You have to learn to look past it.
I have found that most fan boards can be critical but not often nasty, there is a differnce. Parents naturally don't want to see negative things about their player, the best advice is not to read them. That goes for reading the opposing team's boards as well.

I have found that the sites like scout.com and rivals.com do responsible reporting from responsible reporters from reliable sources. You will find that people more often want to report the good things, not the bad. I know that where son went to school, out of respect, nothing was written without reliable quotes or information. My son's HC was very funny about certain things too, he taught players how to talk to the press and at most college's you can't have an interview without prior permission by the SID (student information director).

As far as media guides, those are written by the SID in conjunction with the coaches input. They often will give positive points as to the player so that you can understand why he is on the squad and his contributions. It's their job to make the player look like a winner.

As far as negative reporting of incidents that occur off the field that's the players job to make sure there is nothing to report.

And if you think baseball can get ugly, I am glad mine didn't play college football.

My problem with reporting is the spin.
Player didn't go pro....Is it because he is greedy or does he want a education first?
Player is up set because he struck out.... does he have passion and care about winning or is hot tempered and a head case?
The "reporter" doesn't know the player or the situation

Sometimes a sports photo with a byline can be just as bad. Our local sports photographer got a great zoomed in picture printed front and center of the local sports page with, "Junior Miss RJM (softball) picked off rounding third too hard in the last inning of XYZHS's district 2-1 playoff loss."

It might have well have said "Guess who screwed up in a 2-1 loss eliminating XYZHS." I think she wanted to buy every paper and have a bonfire.

Should Olympic athletes be open to the scrutiny of the press? Technically they are amateurs but are allowed to have sponsorships.

Where's the line with this one? Tonight on the woman's vault, the announcer continued to harp on the negative aspects of the performance by Alisha Sacramone.

Criticism hurts and it's understandable but it's not the end of the world. I say as long as what is printed is true then it's fair game. As others have said - if you like the praise then you better be prepared for the criticism. Can't have one without the other. Nobody is going to have a career that goes perfectly.

I don't think the media / public should continually pound the criticism like they sometimes do. Like Collikar says about the female gymnast they need to drop it that she messed up a few nights ago. They reported what happened, it was the truth and we need to move on. I think it shows how tough this teenage girl is mentally. Somewhere in her life someone has taught her the lesson that life isn't fair and not everyone is going to like you.

Besides who cares what these people think? I know it's easier said than done because when anyone says something negative it hurts or ticks you off. But in the grand scheme of things these people honestly don't matter.

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Criticism hurts and it's understandable but it's not the end of the world. I say as long as what is printed is true then it's fair game.

Just wondering, but would you include (for a HS player) an accurate/true reporting such as, "All-league player Jim Jones failed his Algebra II and Senior Writing classes?"

Or, how about?...

"Team leader Joe Smith was said to be, in reality, a disruptive influence in game preparation by his high school coach following the playoff loss to East High."

I've seen stuff along these lines and I personally think its out of bounds for HS level athletes. JMO, nothing more.

Hmmm, printing that a student failed a particular subject might lead to a law suit.

The other example, "a disruptive influence" would be considered an opinion rather than a fact.

I agree with not seeing the need to post those comments either, justbaseball.

Good points JB but what are the chances a local newspaper reporter would know this stuff? In regards to the first scenario if they do write about it then someone said something they shouldn't have.

If they player told the reporter then they had it coming

If the school / coach said it then you might have a case of breaking confidentiality rules

As for the second scenario that coach should not have said that (yes I know some will say it) but if he did and it's public then deal with it. Joe Smith needs to make sure he does a better job next time out.

I understand what you are saying and it's stuff that needs to remain behind closed doors but it's still not the end of the world.

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All-righty then...how about a Reality check...

Let's look at a real example that we all know...

No matter what side you came down on this one....Think about your/our/the press reaction and comments to the video and thread of the high schoolers in Georgia who "allegedly" threw at the umpire...

Amateurs. Non sport allegations. Unproven. Denied.

Yet, there were some pretty scathing remarks in the local press, national press and on the board, and while there was some comments of player/family privacy the vast majority of us dove right in...was that response fair? Respectful? Rush to judgement? Harsh? personal attacks? Negative?..

We might have all said, "better left to the coach", or "only positive" or used only on field performance i.e "It was called a ball", or "high school so off limits to any speculation"...

but for most of us it didn't...the emotion drove us to comment..

IMO...Out-of-bounds reporting is much like art/p**n...I can't define it exactly...but I can assure you I know it when I see it!

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I know the world is shrinking and we live in a global economy but even with that I still notice that peoples' frankness varies greatly in different parts of the US. Southerners sugar coat their conversations while North easterners seem to have a goal of being very blunt with theirs. Maybe that's true of the media in different parts of the US.

Two things I've noticed. I have noticed the national media pushing the envelope in "shock" reporting because of the intense competition between media outlets. What used to be "off limits" is now front headlines designed to grab your attention. Secondly I have seen the media become biased in their reporting using "their" vehicle (newspaper, radio, etc) to promote their opinions instead of reporting facts. Njbb talks of this "spin" they are using as a method of reporting.

Could it be that we're seeing a new method of journalism emerging at the expense of our young athletes? Society needs to control our media instead of the media controlling us.

Fungo

The problem is that sooner or later people have to handle reality.I think the sooner the better. Telling kids what they want to hear at the expense of what they should hear has led to a generation of kids who have been insulated from reality. As a teacher for over 35 years I have seen the educational system go from one of performance to one where we are told to deal with self esteem. If a kid has a deficiency it is because of x y or z. It is not his or her fault. do not say anything that will damage their self esteem Kids have to feel good about themselves. Never say anything negative as it will hurt their self esteem.
As teachers parents coaches are we really doing a child a service by ignoring things for fear of hurting the childs feelings? Sorry for rambling here but the initial premise of fair and criticism whether it comes from the media from a teacher or a coach strikes a cord with me. To survive in this world you need tough skin. You have to deal with all kinds of people and situations. some positive and some negative.

When I first started coaching, the Head HS coach told me his philosophy..."nothing really matters until someone can loose their livliehood."

I think that can cross into this discussion also, and that would mean that the appropriate time for criticism would be the college level.

As a parent, I want to know what happened, accurately. I suppose whether appropriate editoral is called for would be a matter of context and delivery.

You don't have to tell me when my kid stunk up the joint, he knows and I know and everybody who was there knows. I don't see the purpose in trying to keep it a secret or protect him. If my guy hangs a 2-2 curveball that gets hit for the game winning double, I don't see a problem with saying "Jones clubbed a mistake pitch left up for a game winning double." That's accurate.

Fungo is right on talking about media spin and values. We used to trust Walter Cronkite because he had crediblity. These days media outlets that engage in spin and shock value lack all credibilty, yet we accept it without question. Shame on us.

I think Fungo's tapped it --- the 'permission' to write opinions/interpretations as news starts with the current climate of the media.

In the Good Old Days when it was NBC, ABC, & CBS, the news reporting was generally straightforward and factual. Now, with a range of 24 hour news channels, the networks, and the internet, people choose their news source based on their own political leanings; no balance, just reinforcement. So, opinions and spin now pass for 'news'.

HS & college sports, particularly with baseball, are going to be rookie reporter territory, and all they've known is opinion-based "reporting". I don't think they give a second thought to the validity of what they write, given what they see in the major media.


And I certainly support the idea that if you're going to take the good ink, you take the bad. On performance.

A professionally paid athlete is an entertainer, a college or high school athlete is a STUDENT who happens to play sports.

An entertainer is subject to criticism, a student should be applauded for effort.

I really don't see it as that big of a deal. 30 years ago(dang, was it that long) when I was in HS, I was written up in the local newspaper many times. For good things most of the time. I didn't know that other newspapers held the bad stuff out. Ours didn't. It made you a little more careful. Or at least as careful as a teenager can be, LOL.

What makes the whole issue problematic is, everyone has their own definition for right/wrong, good/bad, and certainly for whether or not something is appropriate. It’s a lot like the glass being half full or half empty. I personally find generally, that as long as something is truthful, I just accept it and get on with my life. But its not too difficult to tell when something, even if truthful, is written/said with the intention to be hurtful, and that’s when its personally offensive.

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What makes the whole issue problematic is, everyone has their own definition for right/wrong, good/bad, and certainly for whether or not something is appropriate.

I agree! Maybe we should adopt a set of rules for society to ---- nah... bad idea! They'd probably outlaw it in our schools and remove any likness of it from public buildings.

10 commandments removed

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Originally posted by SKeep:
What makes the whole issue problematic is, everyone has their own definition for right/wrong, good/bad, and certainly for whether or not something is appropriate. It’s a lot like the glass being half full or half empty. I personally find generally, that as long as something is truthful, I just accept it and get on with my life. But its not too difficult to tell when something, even if truthful, is written/said with the intention to be hurtful, and that’s when its personally offensive.

Good points.

There can never be a universal rule that will cover or apply to all situations. The key is to be reasonable imho. Our local newspapers are pretty good about reporting things. If someone makes an error, the error is reported but the players name usually is not. In a high profile playoff game, information concerning that type of information is often reported because it sometimes has a big impact on that game and other playoff games thereafter. If a pitcher is roughed up, they tend to focus the story on the success of the offense rather than the pitcher's "misdeeds." Sometimes, the mistake someone makes is the whole story to a game so it must be reported. Other times it is unnecessary. For example, sometimes a pitcher makes a perfect pitch but for whatever reason the hitter lucks one over the second baseman's head for the game winning hit. Two ways to write that story. One is to say "hitter's name" won the game. Another way to write it is to say "pitcher's name" bl-ew it. The latter technique is completely irresponsible imho. Sometimes you just have to tip your hat to the other team and to assign blame is thus not reasonable imho.

To answer justbb's initial question about off-field incidents, again I believe the reasonableness test needs to be applied. For the two situations he described (shaking hands, heated words between coach and player) seems unreasonable to me for stuff like that to be reported imho. To extend a hypothetical, if the scuffle between a coach or the player got so heated that either one or both were tossed from the game and that impacted the outcome of the game, then something like that ought to be reported.

Here was a real world scenario from our highschool that happened many years back. The coach walked to the mound and was about to remove a pitcher and the pitcher had a tantrum and threw his glove at the coach. In the paper the next day after the team lost, the glove incident was reported and some people questioned whether that was fair game or not. IMHO, in this situation it was because the incident seemed to change the whole complexion of the game thereafter. Everyone there also witnessed the event so no secrets or otherwise were being told. Again, I think it is hard to come up with a universal rule for all situations but I don't think it is too much to ask for people (the media) to be reasonable.