Attending a College's Camp Multiple Times

I can only answer the way I would "read" it.

Given that they have seen him play more than once, if they were genuinely interested, they would have contacted him by now I believe. That is not to say the door is completely shut, but its not very likely that its open very much either.

Given that your son is a 2013 and recruiting is well underway and even finished at a fair number of schools for 2013s...if it were my son...I would concentrate on other schools.

I disagree. I think it depends on your son's improvement over the last year. Do you think he has grown in size and skills? Is there something different for the coaches to look at?

My son went to a camp winter of his Junior year. Coaches liked him but felt like they needed to see how he developed. He changed his mind about the school he intended to go to in November of his senior year and went back to a winter prospect camp and they offered him right afterwards. Turns out he chose another opportunity but the moral to this story is that recruiting doesn't end this summer unlike what some people say.

There is always room, even at top programs for the right player in many cases through the winter. My son received two offers from CWS participants in January. He developed a lot in terms of strength from Junior to Senior years and that's what they wanted to see.

calisportsfan - Certainly what you have written can be true...but not terribly common. I was not/am not saying that recruiting ends right now...or even in the Fall. I am saying that the odds go down. If its my $$, I will be thoughtful about how I spend it.

If it were me, I would only go back if there was clear improvement from before. Pitcher who was throwing 83/84 now throwing 89/90 would be an example.

There is no doubt some kids hit their acceleration pedal later than some others...I think the OP needs to figure out if thats the case for his/her son.

Would it not also depend on the level of teh college. I know many D3's are just seriously starting. But I agree there must be some improvement, or move on...

ILBaseballFan,

My two cents....What feedback did your son receive when he attended these winter baseball camps? Was there any dialogue or interest shown by the coaches or your son? If so, then it may be worth it if they are his first choice schools or schools he would consider attending without baseball. If there has been no follow up on either side, I'm not sure I see the point unless there were no decision makers at the camps.

I would want to focus on new schools and new opportunities to find the school that wants and needs me. Most of the 2013 recruiting/verbal offers is going to happen between now and November depending on the NCAA Division. Your son needs to get all the exposure he can. Truthfully, I'd want to get in front of the most schools possible based on your son's requirements, ability, and family budget.

Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by BishopLeftiesDad:
Would it not also depend on the level of teh college. I know many D3's are just seriously starting. But I agree there must be some improvement, or move on...

Yes. It certainly would be a factor.

Here's a couple additional pieces of information. A coach from one of the colleges has talked a couple times to my son's high school coach and said he liked his actions from the winter camp. This same coach did respond to my son's email at the beginning of the summer when he sent out his summer schedule. The coach told him he'd talked to the high school coach and would definitely see him play this summer. That coach saw him at the Plainfield Suburban Baseball Tournament in mid-June but there was no contact at the event (this was also pre-July 1). My son hasn't heard from the coach again after the Plainfield showcase but my son's summer team is scheduled to play in a tournament this weekend and one of the games is scheduled to be played at this college's field. He's hoping the coach will be in attendence to watch.

Coaches from the other college have also seen my son play after the winter showcase. They too were in attendence at the Plainfield, IL tournament. My son didn't have the greatest of showings there because of some nerves but these coaches did talk to his high school coach at the event about him and the other players from his high school. The college coach did mention he wanted to see more of my son and another player from his high school this summer but we haven't seen them at any games so far and haven't heard from them. We're assuming they will be in attendence this weekend at the same tournament because it is well attended by midwest colleges.

Now neither of these schools contacted him after 7/1 but I've been told to not read into that too much. Both schools are in his top 5 so he has a lot of interest in trying to get in front of them as much as possible. Would it not be out of the ordinary for my son to contact these two schools and express an interest in their July/Aug camps and see if how the coaches respond?

Certainly he can do that. He can come out and ask if they have made up their minds as the money to attend camps is limited and he would really appreciate their honesty. He should also tell them if they are still looking for his position and haven't eliminated him from consideration he will come as he really likes the school but please be straight about where he stands.

Direct, honest communication doesn't waste anyone's time or money

Also, you could have your coach who has spoken to them already make a call and get that information.

You can also talk to them and come straight out and ask if they are serious. Tell them that budeting for events is an issue and ask if they are serious could they prorate the event and let him come in and play for one day. A lot of times programs will do this, they get to see the player and he does not have to stick around for the whole package. They will make sure he gets his AB's or pitches, which will also give you an indication how serious they are.

Let's not forget the #1 reason for the existence of college camps. Head Coaches income. Reasons #2, 3 and 4 are, assistant coaches income. Very, very, few players are found at school camps. There are exceptions to the rule, and coaches love to tout those because they help reasons #1-4.

ILBaseballFan,

From what you've (additionally) described it sounds to me like your son is "circling the wagons". He has traded emails, and his high school coach is a proxy. I think he needs to be directly involved in this (face to face or phone call), and develop a relationship with these coaches.

I agree with BOF. I think your son needs to have a direct conversation(s) (or phone call) with the coaches to find out if they are serious. I realize your son may not be comfortable doing that. However this is something that he needs to be more comfortable doing as the recruiting process moves forward. I guarantee other kids are doing it. Coaches are used the kids being nervous, so I don't think he has anything to worry about. My son was extremely uncomfortable calling coaches at first. He is quiet, and introverted. He learned quickly how to handle himself, ask questions, and get information and next steps. Your son can do the same.

Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
I think your son needs to have a direct conversation(s) (or phone call) with the coaches to find out if they are serious.

I believe your advice is good and sound and don't wish to diminish it in any way, however, I will share a real life experience.

Junior attended a showcase where a target school was scouting and had previous contact with regarding being seen by this school at this showcase. After the showcase, the asst. coach from the target school says he likes junior, but needs to get him in front of the head coach to make a scholly decision. A week later, the asst. coach calls, urging Junior to come to the college camp because he really needs to be seen by the Head Coach.

Junior signs up, goes to the camp, performs well, never any further contact from the school and none of the coaches will respond to emails or calls from Junior.

Fast forward to summer ball, where Junior is playing on a team with a commit to the aforementioned school, both he and the commit RHP's. Junior learns from the commit, that the commit had already signed months previous to the showcase and that the coaches had told the commit that they were not signing anymore pitchers that year...and they didn't.

The moral to the story, is that if it seems like it is all about getting you to the camp, it probably is. Achems Razor says, " The most obvious answer is usually the right one."

So my advice is, don't believe your son is the exception to the rule and you'll probably be right.

That's a very unfortunate story but just like you may not take everything at face value with a coach, don't be so quick to believe another parent either. That program's needs could have changed due to many things, transfer, injury even a de commitment.

Our experience with camps was very very positive. Every camp my son attended my son was extended offers from once he hit summer prior to senior year. The early two he attended led to one program following him and another that offered him after his second camp there.

Together we worked hard to qualify these camps either through his coach or with him making direct phone contact in advance and asking direct questions like do you need an infielder in 2012 and do you have scholarship dollars still available. Everyone was honest with us from what I can tell.

I am a huge fan of camps and found them the best opportunities my son had but I am not an advocate of sending a check and just showing up with your fingers crossed for anything in life. I guess I am a believer that you often get out of anything what you put in. The minimum is sending your check but the kids who really want it call in person and form a relationship, have coach call, do the research and make themselves stand out as more then a guy with 400.00 in their parents pocket.

Don't let yourself get jaded by the process there are as many good guys in coaching as in any other area of life. Take responsibility for making your own experience what you need/want it to be. That skill is a huge gift to give your kid and will serve him throughout his life

I tend to put more weight on the correspondence from coaches where they ask my son to let them know where he will be showcasing (without promoting their own showcase or camp). Next comes the smaller programs where they don't travel much - logic tells me that they might actually use their camps to evaluate players.

As for the large college camps, I see those as a decent place for my son to be seen by the smaller schools which attend to check out the talent - but not so much the host college.

quote:

Originally posted by calisportsfan:

Don't let yourself get jaded by the process there are as many good guys in coaching as in any other area of life.

Unfortunately, that statement is patently false and I assume ignorance rather than malice in making it.

I had a very wizened baseball person tell me once, "Most parents find out that their sons college coaches are not as advertised". Most college coaches are self preservationists, it is the nature of the business. In their wake is a trail of bodies that further their own cause. They live their life with the scruples of a used car salesman. They string people along, give false hope, cast entrenched relationships to the curb the moment they get one minutely better, are evasive...and that's the top of the heap, it gets worse as you get further down. I'm not bitter or jaded, it simply is what it is and they are who they are. It's our job as parents or players to navigate their world and understand their motivations, needs, tactics and strategies. One of their strategies is how they approach camps. They approach it as a money maker first, recruiting tool second.

The story I told was 100% accurate, there were no mitigating circumstances as you think might be the case. It was a typical case of coaches using whatever means necessary to fill out a camp. My story is not atypical of how coaches view camps, it is much closer to the rule. Most camps are put in the hands of the lowest assistant. They are scratching and clawing to make an impression and move up the ladder. They are also coached on what to do to pull off a successful camp, so the messages are definitely those that come from on up high.

I'm glad to see that you like to look for the positives in everyone, my wife is very much like that and it is an admirable trait, one that I could benefit from having more of. I however, am much more of a realist and as such tend to see things for what they are.

Regards,
Chip Porter