balk or no call

Pitcher drops ball while engaged and baserunner = balk.

I dont have my books here so I cant give a reference. Someone else can, though, I figure.

Sounds like a balk to me. Remember ball is still live in this situation and runner is allowed to advance one base without liabitity of being put out. FED rules, ball is automatically dead.

wanted to consult my reference material before offering an answer/opinion...........

I offer this opinion since I could not find any direct reference to this type of situation....Im going to throw in the "HTBT" since so much of this seems to hinge on whether or not the umpire determined if the ball was thrown or dropped.

The OP says the ball was thrown (throwing motion seen) but came out of the hand and fell at the pitchers feet.........The requirements are that the ball be thrown, but we can not legislate the quality or distance of a throw..........so I could see someone asking for a no call based on that.......

However, I am also going to lean towards calling a balk as reading it just doesnt give me any better view of what happended.

Fed game, ball dead, advance runner........

So Change up, what did you call?..........I am interested in what the crew came up with.

Piaa
sorry if i wasnt clear but just think of it as a quarterback that is fixin to throw and just as he starts to throw the ball falls out,slips, whatever someone calls it, and at the very point that he is going to release it next thing he knows the ball is lying at his feet.

Late in the game ,game out of hand, balk called because no throw was made but i have no idea if i was right. Just being honest so that if i was right i know and if i was wrong i know

I realize the OP is for FED rules and not OBR, but I think the comment of J/R is instructive. They say:
"An intended pickoff throw (in-contact) to first base that slips is a balk if it does not reach the foul line or a fielder within reach of a tag attempt at the base." They define a slip as a pitch or throw that lacks both aim and momentum.

I don't perceive any intent by the NFHS to make this aspect of balks different to OBR.

Also,consider this Fed Casebook ruling:
6.2.4G "R1 is on second and R2 is on first. After F1 has come set, he steps with his nonpivot foot ... (b)toward first or home. He does not throw the ball. Ruling: In (b), F1 has committed a balk."
So what constitutes a "throw"? I think that the approach outlined by J/R is a good objective way to judge, and it fits well with the FED rule that a pitch which doesn't reach a foul line is a balk when a runner is on base (6-1-4).

quote:

"An intended pickoff throw (in-contact) to first base that slips is a balk if it does not reach the foul line or a fielder within reach of a tag attempt at the base." They define a slip as a pitch or throw that lacks both aim and momentum.

I did not come across that in my reading of the J/R, but that nails it for me....clearly a balk....and I can guaranteee you I will find it tonight....

Hopefully those that read this thread that aspire to umpire understand that to be a fully functional umpire, it requires so much more than one rule book.........the additional resources such as the J/R, the BRD and PBUC manuals are invaluable.......

good call 3F

Call a balk. It's easier to explain why it is than why it isn't.

Guys thanks for the help. While i will probably never see this again i think the conseses was that it was a balk. As MMWS told me Balls, strikes, safes and outs are the easy stuff it is crazy stuff like this that keep us on our toes. Thanks for the help

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey Mantle World Series:
Call a balk. It's easier to explain why it is than why it isn't.

Just to expound on the whole situation of calling balks, especially at lower levels of play or competition. You will get in more hot water for calling them than not. Nobody sees them or knows what they are except you. It's usually just easier to pull the coach and pitcher aside to explain some of the little things. The very obvious balks should be called because everyone sees them and understands for the most part what they did wrong.

These kids have enough trouble throwing around the plate. The last thing I want from them is worrying about balking every pitch.

I have a quick question. If the pitcher drops the ball on the mound while in contact with the pitcher's plate, it is a balk if the ball does not roll to the foul line. If it crosses the line it is a ball. When do you define whether it was dropped or a pick-off attempt? And if a pitcher drops the pick-off attempt and it rolls toward and over the first base line is it a ball or balk?

quote:

Originally posted by hsballcoach:
I have a quick question. If the pitcher drops the ball on the mound while in contact with the pitcher's plate, it is a balk if the ball does not roll to the foul line. If it crosses the line it is a ball. When do you define whether it was dropped or a pick-off attempt? And if a pitcher drops the pick-off attempt and it rolls toward and over the first base line is it a ball or balk?

Good question and I will try to give an answer as to what would probably have to happen. Since there is really nothing defined in any rule book that describes the action of the pitcher, I would have to say the pitcher's non pivot foot would be the determining factor in whether a pitcher was going to the plate with a pitch. Another thing to remember is if the ball is touched by another teammate before the ball comes to a complete stop before it crosses the foul line, it also makes the pitch a balk. Any runner on base can advance one base without liability of being put out, except FED. The award will always be one base from the time of pitch. It doesn't matter how far the runner had advanced until then. Be aware also, if the ball crosses the foul line the ball is live.

When our meetings start in a few weeks, I will try to get a more definate interpretation. I have never seen a dropped throwing pick off attempt to first. Now that I've read about, it will happen to me in my first game. LOL.

I agree with Jemi, wgere he is stepping is what would determine a pitch or pick-off.