Balk throwing to second?

NOT a Balk. A pitcher may throw to an unoccupied base in order to make a play....

I agree with Piaa however, it may end up in a protest with less experienced Ump's. I try to keep an open mind about their explanation when they do explain, but I get raw when they answer with 'do want to keep watching from the dugout or parking lot'.

Not sure Im following you on this one HCD.....if the runner is stealing the rules state you can not balk by throwing to an unoccupied base.......where am I missing a protest possibility here?

Also as an aside, any time a coach tells me an umpire told him anything like "Do you want to watch the game from the dugout or the parking lot?" I can make a pretty accurate evaluation of that umpires experience and ability......

An experienced Umpire either ejects or he doesn't.....there should be no threats or childish back and forth..........

That very lack of experience and childishness is where my point is. I doubt some, not all but some of the younger umpires I have dealt with have read the last part of this rule. MLB 8.05 (d) The pitcher, while touching his plate, throws, or feints a throw to an unoccupied base, except for the purpose of making a play. (PONY BB Plays under MLB rules.)

Ok...very good, If an umpire did call a balk on such a play you most certainly would have a protest possibility based on the misapplication of the rule..... Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing your point......

quote:

Also as an aside, any time a coach tells me an umpire told him anything like "Do you want to watch the game from the dugout or the parking lot?" I can make a pretty accurate evaluation of that umpires experience and ability......

I completely agree with piaa. I could never understand why an umpire would feel the need to say something like that. Remarks like that are antagonistic and confrontational. You simply explain your call in this instance and let the coach have his say (to a certain extent). If he feels the need to protest he can do so.

The problem with Pony or JrLL is many times it's the first experience for the players to deal with balks, holding runners and pick-offs. Also the experience level of the umpires and coaches is just as low. Many managers are working on knowledge from when they played and it may be filled with baseball myths passed down from their coaches. The umps also aren't usually trained and are trading on their playing days with the many myths.
Combine inexperienced players, managers that are may times confrontational because of little rule knowledge, and untrained umps that don't understand proper game management and it can be very ugly.
A trained ump probably wouldn't make the mistake to start with but also would know that a protest isn't an insult to him but a manager using the tools allowed him by rule.
My feelings on a protest is someone is going to learn something. Either the coach or ump is going to be wrong and will gain valuable knowledge for the future.

I think I blew this call last weekend.

I was under the impession that for a pitcher to throw to an unoccupied base in the attempt to put out a runner, he first has to disengage from the rubber.

Negative. In HS all you need is for the runner to break for the next base, he may return to his orginal base but it isn't a balk. In pro rules the runner has to make a real attempt to advance for the throw to be legal.

as far as sking the coach is he wants to go to the parking lot, i think younger umpires are just intimidated by the older coaches and staff, along with the parents, and dont have the balls to throw anyone out... which is too bad because the harrassment from coaches/spectators will continue to happen and imo, the umpire will just have a deeper whole to dig out of.

Good info...I was never sure on this.

If the situation is with a LH pitcher... does that mean once the runner on 1st breaks the pitcher who would already be in his motion by lifting his leg could wheel directly to 2nd? I've seen a number of time a lefty will throw to 1st after the runner has started to go to 2nd.

NC Dad,

A pitcher can wheel and throw to 2b in the case you mentioned. However, a LHP knows that if he even hints that part of his motion was a fake to to 1b and subsequent throw to 2b he'll probably be called for a balk. Since he's facing 1b in the set position it's easier and probably much smarter to just throw to 1b and let the 1st baseman throw to 2b to put out the runner.