Ball gets stuck in the fence in LF

quote:

Originally posted by CoachTR:
A batter hits a ball down the right field line. The fielder runs after it, sticks his hand down to grab it, it's stuck in the fence. Fielder then raises his hands.
Is this a groung rule double or do the baserunners get to keep advancing because he "went after it"?

If he attempts to reach and then throws his hands up, they're getting what they can get. There's no way for the umpires to know if he purposely rolled it under the fence.

That said, there's a difference between sticking the hand down and bending over to look at it. The umpire's gonna have to make a determination if the fielder actually went to pick it up or simply ran over and saw it was under the fence. Once that hand goes to the ground, though, he's in trouble.

I can't fing anything in the rule book about a player attempting to get the ball or not. I can't find anything about how the player has to put his hands up either

Here is the OBR rule which applies.

7.05
(f) Two bases, if a fair ball bounces or is deflected into the stands outside the first or
third base foul lines; or if it goes through or under a field fence, or through or under
a scoreboard, or through or under shrubbery or vines on the fence; or if it sticks in
such fence, scoreboard, shrubbery or vines;

Notice it says "fair ball" which equates to a batted ball. Once the fielder touches it, the status of the ball is no longer a batted ball. It is a thrown ball since it won't be considered a "deflected" ball after coming to rest. But, it is no longer batted and the umpire doesn't know if the player pushed the ball under the fence or, if it sticks in the fence where the umpire can't tell it is in the fence, he doesn't know if the player pushed it into the fence. Basically, if it is no longer a batted ball, then getting stuck in the fence is of no consequence. Which is why the fielder needs to stay away from it, b/c a thrown ball is 2 bases from TOT, unless the umpire really wants to penalize and give the batter what he thinks would have happened without the "intentional" thrown OOP.

Pretty much, tell the fielder to leave it alone and not even try until the umpire can determine if the batted ball is stuck or went under the fence.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachTR:
I can't fing anything in the rule book about a player attempting to get the ball or not. I can't find anything about how the player has to put his hands up either

There is nothing in the rules about the hands going up. It is just a customary mechanic for the player to indicate to the umpire that something is wrong. The umpire doesn't know what it may be until he can verify what the issue is. After that, then the fielder can get the ball if possible.

I have always felt like this rule needed to be cleaned up.
We had a situation a few years back where an opponents outfielder missed a shoestring catch and then ran back to a deep fence and threw his arms up. By the time he got back there it was a 3 run inside the park Homerun. The base ump proceeded to take a molasses paced walk out to check it out while the fielder (with his backed turned)appeared to be stepping on/manipulating the ball with his feet. I think you know the outcome that resulted in me almost being tossed.
Of course the other side is where a fielder does not realize its wedged/stuck until he attempts to go after it.
What standard is used to determine what qualifies as being stuck or unretreivable once an umpire goes out to check it out?

quote:

Originally posted by Tangents23:
I have always felt like this rule needed to be cleaned up.
We had a situation a few years back where an opponents outfielder missed a shoestring catch and then ran back to a deep fence and threw his arms up. By the time he got back there it was a 3 run inside the park Homerun. The base ump proceeded to take a molasses paced walk out to check it out while the fielder (with his backed turned)appeared to be stepping on/manipulating the ball with his feet. I think you know the outcome that resulted in me almost being tossed.
Of course the other side is where a fielder does not realize its wedged/stuck until he attempts to go after it.
What standard is used to determine what qualifies as being stuck or unretreivable once an umpire goes out to check it out?

For me, if the fielder can pick up the ball without sticking his hand under the fence, it's in play.

When a player thinks the ball is out of play, it is the accepted practice is to throw your hands up. It is a signal that won't be confused with anything else. Once they show the signal they must leave it alone, that is so you can determine if it is out or not. Before he signals, his touching may or not cause him to buy it. The umpires are going to allow the runners to run, they won't kill the ball until they are sure it is out.

If the fielder throws his hands up, he better be darned sure the ball isn't playable.

Side note, funny story...
I saw a play a few years back where this happened, the BU ran out, gave a "safe" sign. The hitter (only BR) had stopped at second. The CF stood their and argued with the BU, pointing gesturing, etc. BU gave the safe sign, turned around and started running back into the IF.

The BR, who must have had a hearing disorder, stayed at second (despite much proding from coach, fellow players and several hundred home fans). He sayed, CF kept yelling at BU, who was running away.

Finally, BR started running (seemed like an eternity, but probably only 5-10 seconds). CF then picked up the ball, hit the cutoff man and the relay threw out the BR on a bang-bang play at the plate.

We were vistors that day. All the OF's got a lecture but apparently there was some legitimate confusion based on a ground rule description at the start of the game that got even more confused when the coach relayed it to the OF's.

A good friend of mine was a parent on the other team. His comment was, "That was actually the best base running decision that kid made all season, if you know what I mean"

Thanks Dash, that makes sense. I think the unfortunate aspect of the rule arises when a fielder goes after a ball only to then realize that it is unretrievable or when a player tries to manipulate a ball after they throw their hands up. (I believe this happened at Wrigley several years back)

quote:

Originally posted by dash_riprock:
For me, if the fielder can pick up the ball without sticking his hand under the fence, it's in play.

So if it's halfway under the fence, you're calling it in play?

He's got you there Dash!

quote:

Originally posted by yawetag:


So if it's halfway under the fence, you're calling it in play?

If the fielder pick the ball up without sticking his hand under the fence, then yes.

I think the point is that it could be halfway and be stuck, it doesn't have to be all the way out.

The original question is if the Ball is "Stuck" in the fence not under it... A batted ball stuck in the fence is 2 bases from TOP Right?

Stuck under or in from a batted ball is TOP. If you judge that the ball is put out of play by the fielder, that is TOT.

Had a situation where opposing outfielder kicked the ball (assumed accidently) out of play. Is that umpire judgement on base awards or is it TOK?

quote:

Originally posted by Tangents23:
Had a situation where opposing outfielder kicked the ball (assumed accidently) out of play. Is that umpire judgement on base awards or is it TOK?

I'm using TOK.. sorry about your luck Mr Outfielder...

The umpire decides if the hit caused the ball to go out of play, including bouncing off the fielder. Or, did the kick by the fielder create the force sending the ball OOP. If it's the former, two bases from TOP, if it's the latter, two bases from TOK.

As I see it the issue here is once the fielder reached for the ball it becomes much more difficult for the umpire to tell if the ball became stuck on the hit or the fielder pushed the ball in some manner to make sure it was stuck. This is a judgement call the umpire needs to make. The reach by the fielder makes it a bit moe difficult. Obviously, if the fielder never reached for the ball and the umpire could see it was stuck, it pretty much calls itself. This is a difficult situation for fielders because sometimes they do not know the ball is stuck until they attempt a play. The umpires judgement becomes crucial at this point.