Base award

I'm not an ump, but if I followed the play right, both should be safe assuming neither base runner was tagged by a defensive player.   I don't see why the runner at 3B would be ruled out.

Fox,

That's my thinking as well, runner at 3B should be safe.

Wales posted:

Hello, have a question on a play ...

Passed ball, and then an over throw to the LF corner, all on the same play.

Runner from 2B advances to 3B, runner from 1B advances to 2B on the passed ball.

On the over throw the runner now at 3B gets hung up in a pickle, while this happens the runner now at 2B runs to 3B does not touch the bag.

Runner caught in pickle makes his way back to 3B while the other runner heads back to 2B, thus insues the runner near 3B trying to advance to Home, runner near 2B gets hung up in a pickle as the runner near 3B tries to advance he then gets hung in a pickle, runner near 2B makes his was back to 2B, then heads back to 1B where he was originally at the start of the play and stays there. Runner near 3B makes it back to 3B and stays there.

The defensive team tags both runners as they are standing on their respective bases. Umpires in the game call the runner at 3B out and call the runner at 1B safe.

We know there is no point in arguing because the umpires give the impression either have never seen anything like this before.

We just want to know what the proper call is.

...

Anybody want to tackle this one?

Yes, this is an easy call...  the defense is terrible and at least one of the runners is stupid.   

First off, the best move would be to ask why the runner at 3rd was called out? Just going by the scenario presented - he didn't do anything wrong.

As for the runner back at first: If he didn't retouch 2nd on his way to 1st he would be out. That's a simple one.

If he did touch 2nd you need to look at:

5.09(b)(10)

(10) After he has acquired legal possession of a base, he runs the bases in reverse order for the purpose of confusing the defense or making a travesty of the game. The umpire shall immediately call “Time” and declare the runner out

So, was it an attempt to confuse the defense? I guess you had to be there, so - maybe. Was it to make a travesty of the game? No, it was just part of a play.

One other consideration is that if the pitcher had the ball and was ready to pitch you need to look at:

Rule 5.06(a)/5.06(c) Comment: If a runner legally acquires title to a base, and the pitcher assumes his pitching position, the runner may not return to a previously occupied base

That doesn't apply here apparently, but it's one of those things you can point to in order to frame an argument.  In other words, he should only be out if he acquired the next base AND the pitcher was ready to pitch. Since both of those conditions were not met, it's just nothing and he wouldn't be out. You can't declare a runner out just for doing something weird, he actually has to have broken a rule. If there isn't a rule preventing an action, it is generally accepted to be legal.

So you are left with - the runner at 3rd should be safe.  The runner at first would only be out if the umpires felt he was trying to "confuse the defense" by running backwards. Other than that he should be safe as well.

In the best case scenario, the umpires called the wrong runner out.

I find the officials guilty of improper enforcement and sentence them to a weekend of remedial slideshows.

Both runners are safe.

Runner on third is safe and the runner on first should be out just because.  Who goes back to first after being at second.  I will agree that if he did not touch second on his way back then he is out for not retouching base.  End of discussion. 

I did have a player steal first from second one time to make a point.  We were up 25 runs and I had told them no matter what we were base to base.  There was a passed ball and his daddy started screaming go, go, go.  My first base coach and myself were saying no.  So on the next pitch I made him steal first from second just to make a point to him and his dad. 

I also know of a track kid that was put on the baseball roster to hopefully just run bases.  They brought him to run for the catcher who had hit a triple.  He got a lead toward second and stole second, catcher's indifference, on the first pitch.  Everyone still tells that story at the school.

PitchingFan posted:

Runner on third is safe and the runner on first should be out just because.  Who goes back to first after being at second.  I will agree that if he did not touch second on his way back then he is out for not retouching base.  End of discussion. 

I did have a player steal first from second one time to make a point.  We were up 25 runs and I had told them no matter what we were base to base.  There was a passed ball and his daddy started screaming go, go, go.  My first base coach and myself were saying no.  So on the next pitch I made him steal first from second just to make a point to him and his dad. 

I also know of a track kid that was put on the baseball roster to hopefully just run bases.  They brought him to run for the catcher who had hit a triple.  He got a lead toward second and stole second, catcher's indifference, on the first pitch.  Everyone still tells that story at the school.

Both of those latter two examples are illegal and outs -- although I get the point you were trying to make in the first, and the humor in the second.

Both runners safe, nothing either did was wrong maybe confused !!!!