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Baseball injuries...bad luck????

infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts
Over the past several months, it seems, to me at least, there has been an increase in the number of posts about diagnosing and recovering from baseball related injuries. One such thread has now gone golden.
Two recent situations involving Casey Janssen of the Blue Jays and yesterday, Kevin Frandsen of the Giants, seem particularly difficult to understand.
Each of these young man had a very rapid rise in their organizations.
In 2005, Casey was the Opening Day starter for the Lansing Lugnuts in Low A. This Spring, he was expected to challenge for the 5th spot in the rotation for Toronto, after making 70 appearances in 2007. Last week, he was diagnosed with a labrum tear and is done for this year.
Frandsen, a 12th round pick in 2004, was challenging for the opening day position at 2B in San Francisco after proving he had very little he could do in Milb. Yesterday, while in the midst of treatment for an achilles strain, he appears to have torn the achilles tendon while running bases in a minor league game. He too is done for this year.
While I cannot speak with first hand knowledge, my expectation is that each of these players worked incredibly hard between last Sept. and this Spring, harder than most any of us can imagine.
Now, within their organizations, they will try and rehab as others take their spots, the organization moves on, and another draft brings in 35 or so more players. For the most part, they will be an asterisk.
If and when they return, they will once again need to prove themselves, and nothing will be guaranteed.
The timing of these injuries coming on an offseason of some of the hardest conditioning one can imagine and leading into a season so full of hope and optimism seems particularly cruel.
I know Casey is a terrific young man and Frandsen sure seems that way from everything said and written about him.
Injuries sure don't seem fair and for the most part, don't seem preventable when one considers the training regimens involved with these players.
Some on this site have posted that injuries can be prevented, which I think is true during the ages of development. But for those who are ages 17/18 and beyond, injuries seem to, for the most part, be related to luck than to anything else observable.
Are baseball injuries the product of bad luck?

'You don't have to be a great player to play in the major leagues, you've got to be a good one every day.'

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FutureBack.MomFutureBack.Mom1,000+ posts
quote:
Are baseball injuries the product of bad luck?


My gut feeling is that these injuries are a combination of both 'bad luck' and of overuse and/or improper conditioning, with an emphasis on the conditioning.

In the case of Casey Janssen ... first I am so sad for him because he has such potential and has experienced so much success (he pitched against AJ's high school team) ... but I am not sure how one can condition so as to avoid a torn labrum. Of the pitchers we have known who have had a torn labrum, the tear was a direct result of an accident on the field such as sliding head first with arm extended, etc. One of the Dbacks' up and coming pitchers tore his in fall ball trying to play a pop up while he was on the mound, and landed on his arm with the armpit hitting the ground when he landed. So perhaps this is the case with Casey ... ???

But as for other injuries, I personally feel that players (especilly pitchers) are not conditioning as much as they could in the off season, or perhaps they are conditioning ineffectively. For our son, the conditioning starts in October with work outs, running, lifting, some throwing but not pitching. He builds up to the point that by the time he gets to spring training (and he arrives a couple of weeks earlier than other pitchers), he has already been pitching off a mound and is ready to go if needed. His trainer, during his short season in 04, told him that he (the trainer) expected AJ to be the last pitcher to injure his arm because he took such good care of it, whereas other pitchers seemed to think they were invincible and didn't take nearly as much care as they should have.

If I remember correctly, Casey was the main pitcher at UCLA while he was there ... and like other pitchers, we have seen the good ones who become the 'aces' at their schools also become the team's 'horse' and get stretched into many many innings during their college career, and at some point in their early pro career, have to take time out due to injury. (I suspect it is different for position players, but that is what I have seen with pitchers.)

Just some thoughts ...
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Are baseball injuries the product of bad luck?
Here's some bad luck for you. A former teammate was drafted by the Yankees when they were big on free agent signings. He does everything he can do in the minors for three years. He's told as soon as the AAA playoffs are over he's a September call up. He steps in a pothole in the airport parking lot and breaks his ankle.

The next year he was the prospect the Yankees wouldn't let go in the attempted Carew trade. His agent told him if the trade is made he's in the outfield for the Twins. He has another great year in AAA. Once again he's told as soon as the AAA playoffs are over, he's up. He gets hit on the wrist in the playoffs. His wrist breaks. He's never the same.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
I just heard of a story where a position player bumped his elbow this summer (non baseball related) and an MRI revealed a partial UCL tear. I don't think that we realize that bumps and bruises can cause furhter problems later on. One of the reasons why we didn't let son play football.
Bad luck yes, son sprains one ankle in feb and most likely threw the mechanics off. The spraining of the other ankle this summer was the icing on the bad luck cake! Combine all of that with a colder season, first complete game and the arm has to be shut down. One series of events can set off another.

I agree with FBM regarding it be a combination of bad luck and poor conditioning and maybe just being stretched to the max at one point or another in their career. On of my son's teammates drafted first round in 2005 has missed almost every season, shoulder surgery. He is in High A when he most likely should be in AAA. He was throwing close high 90's in college, most likely because he was so good in HS he threw too much. I kind of cringe when I see players so young throwing so hard, especially in HS.
infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts
I am a perplexed and quite surprised about the conditioning comments.
So far as I know, every MLB team has a very specific off season conditioning program for pitchers and position players.

I would be interested in hearing why poor conditioning is included when we are talking about college and Milb/MLB players and pitchers.That one is a surprise to me.
Also, to clarify, Casey hardly pitched at UCLA until his senior year. Mostly played 1B. with some relief appearances, and then became their ace when a number of guys were drafted.
He was actually a senior sign in the 4th round.
Last edited by infielddad
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Not poor conditioning at the pro level, or perhaps college, but most likely the HS level when bodies are growing. Too many young pitchers lift more than they should, this eventually can cause too much stress to shoulders and elbows that already go through enough stress. it's accumulative.

I just read where a football player fell in spring practice and seperated his shoulder, now needs surgery to go in and clean out some tears. Injuries happen in every sport. Kids just play hard.
FutureBack.MomFutureBack.Mom1,000+ posts
infielddad ....

I do believe that some injuries are a result of bad luck and some of the examples above are clearly that. And altho I agree that most (all?) clubs have an off-season work out program, I don't believe that all players comply, otherwise how do we see players like Bartolo Colon showing up to camp in need of significant dieting?

Just my thoughts ...
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Again in the case of pitchers I don't think it's about bad luck, unless the pitcher gets hit by the ball, as we often do see.

One webster just pm'd me that a HS pitcher they knew just threw about 130 one week and about 150 the next. This pitcher has commitment and opportunity.

That's not bad luck, that's just an injury waiting to happen someday.

A pitcher I am familiar with, top 2006 class, now has missed almost two years in college due to hip injuries, former basketball player. Sometimes all teh conditioning in the world can't protect a young athletes over used body. JMO.
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
I don't like to think of injuries as "bad" luck because if you do then you're also inclined to believe good things happen because of "good" luck. I have told my son many times, and as recently as yesterday, that luck may be a factor but he needs to be concerned with the things he can control and not be concerned with those things he cannot control. I differ with TPM on the conditioning aspect of the pro players. There are pro players that are guilty of not being in shape. Some injuries at all levels, even the pros, are related to improper or lack of conditioning. Pros do train harder but they are also more at risk because their schedule is more demanding and their game is played with more intensity. Poor technique at all levels can contribute to injury.

We can say injuries happen for a number of reasons but bottom line we have to accept some injury as part of the game. Comes with the territory and CANNOT be avoided playing under today's rules with today's equipment.
Fungo
O Orlando1,000+ posts
Poor 'conditioning' (with a variety of definitions) and bad luck pretty much explains most problems in life Wink.

Our wonderful sport is, when you think of it, rife with unnatural movements. The human body wasn't meant to throw the way a pitcher does or run with a 90 degree turn every 90' or throw itself against walls in pursuit of a 5 oz object. Then there's the whole getting a hard object thrown at you at speeds of anything from 75 - 100 mph; might hit you, then there's that poor schmuck who has to catch it 100 or more times a game.

It's amazing there aren't more injuries, which might be a testament to the conditioning and natural athleticism of the players.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Fungo:
I differ with TPM on the conditioning aspect of the pro players. There are pro players that are guilty of not being in shape.


Ok I didn't want to say it first. Smile

You are correct, there are many pro players, even at the highest level that aren't in the best of shape. I posted this a while back, my husband works with a man who is friends with a MLB pitcher who came to spring training this year with little preparation. His performance this spring shows that is a fact. Maybe once you think you have arrived you don't have to work so hard at it?

I am curious to see if he makes it through the season, like last year, he missed time due to sore shoulder.
Bob SandersBob Sanders10+ posts
I have always believed that you can condition everyday for the whole off season and be ready to go- but there is not enough emphasis put on how valuable just warming up and really stetching right before the gameis--(no matter what the sport). In football you see them out on the field as a team with the captains taking them through their warm-up routines...It's a rare thing to see baseball players doing that. They kind of do their own thing.
Rob KremerRob Kremer1,000+ posts
Luck is a part of it, for sure. But baseball is dangerous. I just got back from Arizona, where my son's team played for games.

Game one: a runner tried to bowl over my son at the plate. He got ejected, but left a large bruise on my kid's collarbone, thought it might be broken. Wasnt.

Game two: HBP off elbow.
Game three: foul tip directly into meat of bicep.
Game four: another collision at the plate, this one of the train wreck variety, clean.

That's just baseball. Bad luck that it was four straght games, but it's a tough sport.

My kid never got beat up this bad playing nose guard!
play baseballplay baseball1,000+ posts
During the course of pre-surgical physical therapy concerning my son's labrum injury, the orthopedic surgeon examined my son's wrist after he was hit by a pitch, looked at him square in the eyes and stated, "You don't have bad luck, you have no luck at all".

Which made me think about which was better to have-- bad luck or no luck. I think bad luck is better, because at least you have luck and it can turn around. If you have no luck, then, well, you have no luck.

I didn't let the boys play football in high school because I didn't want them to get hurt. HA!
Last edited by play baseball
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Sanders:
I have always believed that you can condition everyday for the whole off season and be ready to go- but there is not enough emphasis put on how valuable just warming up and really stetching right before the gameis--(no matter what the sport). In football you see them out on the field as a team with the captains taking them through their warm-up routines...It's a rare thing to see baseball players doing that. They kind of do their own thing.


I have never seen a baseball team NOT do that, HS, travel ball, college, pro. Teams warm up and stretch as a team before batting practice. Maybe you arrived too late.
O Orlando1,000+ posts
[QUOTE]Originally posted by play baseball:
During the course of pre-surgical physical therapy concerning my son's labrum injury, the orthopedic surgeon examined my son's wrist after he was hit by a pitch, looked at him square in the eyes and stated, "You don't have bad luck, you have no luck at all".

Far out, play, your son's surgeon is Booker T? Wink

"if it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all" ---- Born Under A Bad Sign
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Sanders:
TPM--They might go through the motions as a team but do they all take it as seriously as they should?


That's up to them and the trainer in charge (if you have one) and the coach overlooking the trainer. By the time you get to the college/pro level, you don't have a choice.

Looking back at sons 3 years in college, most injuries ocurred because of things that can't be prevented even with stretching and conditioning. An OF dives in to catch the ball and dislocates shoulder, a catcher gets his nail ripped off (first game of the year) on throwing hand, hamstring is pulled sliding in and getting jammed by the base, hitter takes a 90+ mph FB ball on the hand, pitcher gets hit with a pitch back to his shin, these are just normal occurances.

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