Baseball Is A Classy Sport

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
Did you watch the Under Armor High School All Star football game tonight?

Did you see the kids mugging like idiots in front of the camera?

Did you see the kid announcing what college he was going to?

Totally classless. None of this ever would have happened at a high school baseball all star game.

Did I mention that I agree with papi

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
None of this ever would have happened at a high school baseball all star game.

I didn't see the football game, but I agree that you won't find that kind of behavior at a baseball all-star game. Hi-fives and back slappin' are about all you'll see.

Maybe the scarcity of the ME! attitude is why a lot of kids are drawn to other sports.

Well seeing as baseball is one of those team sports where you need a "us" attitude instead of a "me" attitude, that it would eliminate that camera is centered on me kinda thing.

.

All of that flashy celebrating... we'll leave it to the fans!

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
Did I mention that I agree with papi

Clearly, you have never met my wife!

At the risk of being a contrarian, I think baseball could stand to "loosen up" a little to appeal to the younger generation more. There's no doubt that baseball's popularity has slid compared to basketball and football with youth.

Without turning it into gangster baseball, things could be loosened up a little to widen it's appeal to youth, keep up with society changes with the younger population, and not damage the integrity of the game. Some "Manny's" in the game are good for that exact reason. Flat bills are also good for that exact reason. Widen the appeal of the game to things that are more important/interesting to the younger generation...regardless of how silly they may seem to us older guys.

I think it is kind of ironic because I have always seen baseball as a team sport made up of individual match-ups. There is no doubt a huge team aspect to baseball, but football is the ultimate team sport. In baseball a guy can come to the plate and do something good for himself and the team. If Manny tries to drive the ball every time up and goes 4 for 4 with 2 homers and two doubles... that is good for the team. If a defensive end, for example, tries to sack the quarterback all game, he may get one or two, but he may not have done his job. A game where he has no tackles and no sacks can ultimately end up being better than a game when he has 2 sacks. That is the biggest complaint I hear from our football coaches.

I guess what will determine if many of these young athletes we saw last night end up playing on Sunday is how well they can buy into a team concept at the college level.

I realize I will catch some heat for this post, but I see baseball as an individual team game. Nobody can help you get a hit, nobody can help you throw strikes, nobody can help you field a ground ball. If an offensive line drives the defensive line 3 yards off the ball, even a mediocre running back will look pretty good.

I watched the game, and I get the point of the original post, but I have a question, which kid announcing his school did you have a problem with? I thought each of them handled that part well?

I am so much more of a baseball fan over football and I appreciate baseball athletes way more but... football is inherently different than baseball in many ways. (violence and "cockiness" is preached early on)

I agree there was way to much "mugging" for the camera, but I did not any problems with their school choice announcements and wonder what was wrong w that part.

BC, I completely agree --- baseball is a team sport with a strong individual performance component. It's also an intelligent sport, with each of those players having to process a whole range of possibilities-and-responses with every pitch. Creativity within the framework of the situation is encouraged and needs to be anticipated. And when the players succeed, the spotlight is on their accomplishment; they get their recognition.

Football and footie, however, depend on structured plays called by the coach --- get creative and you might get benched. Maybe that's why they seem to need the showboating....there's few outlets for their egos. Then in football, there's the whole testosterone factor .

The whole cockiness that comes with football can be summed up by just bringing up Barry Sanders. Probably the greatest running back in history but you would never know it because he did his job (plus he played for the Lions). When he scored he handed the ball to the ref and he blocked blitzing LB's.

BC I completely agree with you as well. Baseball players have to be successful individually to become successful as a team. I tell my guys all the time how great baseball is because you create your own spotlight. You go 4 - 4 then everyone knows it.

Baseball really becomes a team sport when you have the role players. One kid is a defensive specialist or a kid has to lay down a bunt to move a runner over or other things like that. This is where you have to sell the concept of team. But then again baseball is set up to reward things like that - gold glove awards, bunts don't hurt batting average.

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
Did you watch the Under Armor High School All Star football game tonight?

Did you see the kids mugging like idiots in front of the camera?

Did you see the kid announcing what college he was going to?

Totally classless. None of this ever would have happened at a high school baseball all star game.

Sorry but I didn't get to see the whole thing. Just bits and pieces. But I don't think it's fair to lump this particular game in with all of them and say "football is classless". First of all, the event is designed to be a showcase of the individuals. The producers are the ones who set up the college announcements. The producers are the ones who send the camera crews to the sidelines to get video of the players.

Second, you don't see cameras in the dugout on on a baseball field very often. When you do, you get some goofing off but you're right, it's typically more reserved...typically.

Also, you're talking about high school aged kids. I think if you put a camera in the dugout of a HS baseball team or on the field during a game, you'd see some mugging for the camera.

Maybe it's just me but I think you're comparing apples to oranges here.

Put a bunch of high school kids on national tv and what do you expect? If you expect a different result for baseball, you might be disappointed.

The closest thing to compare these two events is the Aflac All American game run by Perfect Game. A much better way to show off the best in USA. I much prefer the announcer's giving a brief bio and stating what school they have committed to or are looking at. Let's face it, football is king in this country, even though baseball is America's pastime.

You celebrate on a baseball field the same way you do on a football field, your going to get one in the ribs!

quote:

Originally posted by Holden Caulfield:
Put a bunch of high school kids on national tv and what do you expect? If you expect a different result for baseball, you might be disappointed.

You would not be disappointed if you watched the Aflac All-American baseball game.

Some great responses here, but I have one question.

I didn't watch the Under Armor game, but did watch the Army HS all star game. In that game, I saw some cockiness, some trash talking, etc., but about the level I'd expect. Is there someone that saw both that could tell me if they were similar in those idividualistic, "look at me", regards?

I guess I am wondering if the promoters have a hand in hyping the kids up and setting the stage for those kind of antics.

I always thought baseball was a classy sport because our sons and we are involved.

quote:

I agree there was way to much "mugging" for the camera, but I did not any problems with their school choice announcements and wonder what was wrong w that part.

Announcing school choices is a tradition of this game. I didn't see the game. But I read on Rivals for one kid it was national recruiting news since a new coach was hired where he committed, told him he didn't fit in his offense and released him from his NLI. His announcement was an official, first time announcement. Kudos to the coach for being honest rather than running the kid off his freshman year.

As for mugging for the cameras, they're kids. How often do they have a camera stuck in their face? When my son was LL age we went to Williamsport three straight years. My son vowed to get on TV. He pulled it off every year.

quote:

Also, you're talking about high school aged kids. I think if you put a camera in the dugout of a HS baseball team or on the field during a game, you'd see some mugging for the camera.

I recollect a couple of dancers during a rain delay of a college game!

quote:

Originally posted by TMM_Dad:

quote:

Originally posted by Holden Caulfield:
Put a bunch of high school kids on national tv and what do you expect? If you expect a different result for baseball, you might be disappointed.

You would not be disappointed if you watched the Aflac All-American baseball game.

Nowhere near the coverage, promotion, crowd, etc. for that game.

Unfortunately I missed that football event. There really is no long "tradition" as I believe this is only the second year for this event. It was put together to compete against the highly successful US Army High School All American Football event. I have watched the US Army event a few times (televised nationally on NBC) and didn’t notice any “mugging” the camera or other similar behavior. The players announced their college choices with class. Then again the sponsor is the United States Army!

From our (now seven year) involvement with the Aflac All American Baseball Game, I can say that (good) kids will do what they are told to do. If they are told there are things they shouldn’t do… They don’t do that. At the Aflac game there are people who talk to these kids and guide them before they appear on national television. The game is played to raise money to help find a cure for pediatric cancer first and then to showcase many of the nation’s top baseball prospects. Not once in the first 6 Aflac events have I seen a single kid that would have embarrassed the sponsor, us, his parents, or himself. Yes, it is quite an honor, but they soon find out why they are there.

Also, if these All American football players think they are above acting with class, we could do a study of all the past high school all American football players and compare them to the Aflac Baseball players. I’m sure there will be more MLB players from Aflac than NFL players from the All American football teams. I’m basing this on the fact that nearly one of every three Aflac All Americans has become a first round pick.

If you want to act like Terrell Owens (not sure why anyone would want to), then you should wait until you’re in the NFL and have at it. It just looks stupid if you’ve done nothing more than excel in high school. JMO

quote:

Nowhere near the coverage, promotion, crowd, etc. for that game.

Holden, Afraid I would have to disagree. The Aflac Game is advertised nationally (by Aflac). Also wasn't this football game on ESPNU. ESPNU has nowhere near the viewers that NBC or FOX. The Aflac Game is televised "nationally" on FOX.

I do think that college or high school football will always draw more interest than baseball. It is now played in a Major League Stadium and I'm pretty sure more money is spent promoting and televising the Aflac Game. Heck, even the baseball cards have become collector items.

Even if I'm wrong and the football game is bigger, I do know the kids at the Aflac game do a good job of representing themselves on national television.

PG, the game I saw was on ESPN, not ESPNU. I know this because we don't get ESPNU on our service! I think the bottom line is that there is more general interest in football, as you wrote. But I've been to enough HS baseball games to know that there are plenty of HS players capable of the same behavior. I'm sure we all have.

I don't disagree that, overall, baseball players are better behaved.

I have always found that if you tell kids how to act then 9 out of 10 times they will act that way but if you don't tell them anything then they will act like kids. If UnderArmour told these kids how to act and they didn't that could be a huge red flag to college coaches right there that they might be getting a punk.

quote:

PG, the game I saw was on ESPN, not ESPNU. I know this because we don't get ESPNU on our service! I think the bottom line is that there is more general interest in football, as you wrote. But I've been to enough HS baseball games to know that there are plenty of HS players capable of the same behavior. I'm sure we all have.

I don't disagree that, overall, baseball players are better behaved.

Holden, Guess I thought it was on ESPNU, my bad!

The reference made was about Aflac All Americans. I too have seen plenty of baseball players who act like fools. I do think a college baseball player has a better chance of having non-criminal teammates than a college football player or basketball player.

I typed a long post and then deleted it. I typed another long post and deleted that one. Quite honestly I had to cool down so I wouldnt post something I would regret. And the thought came in my head "Its not worth the effort , whats the point anyway."

But then my personality took over and I just had to say what I feel. If this offends anyone I am truly sorry.

Baseball does not tolerate this kind of stuff. From the day a kid first steps on the field he is taught or at least should be taught a respect for the game. Respect for the game means "It is not about you it is about your team. You cheer for your team mates not against the other team. The game is bigger than you. Your team is more important than you. What you do for your team is more important than what you do for yourself. You honor those that have gone before you and paved the way for you by the way you conduct yourself on the field at all times. You respect your opponent at all times. He is a baseball player just like you and has earned that respect. You celebrate your teams accomplishments and your teams success not yours. You honor the game by playing it as hard as you can at all times and with class at all times."

It sickens me to see what goes on in some of these other sports. Its has become a "look at me" "trash talking" "no respect for the opponent" enviroment. Where it is cool to act like a clown and be an individual. This idea that "they are just kids" bull. Kids can be taught to respect the game and the opponent. The coach can instill a fire and determination to compete and at the same time have some class as well. There is nothing I despise more than someone disrespecting the game, their opponent , their team mates , coaches , fans etc. You play as hard as you can , you compete your as*off , and you do it with class.

I watched a few minutes of it and turned it off. I can not watch that stuff. They want to be like the guys in the NFL. How said is that? My players are kids until they are taught to act like men on the baseball field and off of it. If they dont they are not my players. Baseball is a classy game because it is intilled at the young ages and continued through the game. It is not tolerated and should never be. Its about the team. When it becomes about you then go play by yourself.

Many will disagree thats fine. I will not debate this issue with anyone. There are some things that you stand for and there is no wavering.

Thanks Coach I was trying to be pc this whole thread and probably had to delete more posts you. I don't think anyone could have phrased it any better than you just did........you just can't, as it always sounds as being not very sensitive.

HERE HERE, Coach May. Well said!

How much of that stuff is cultural? Baseball, obviously, has seen a big cultural shift over the past 15-20 years, and has certainly managed to maintain its class and etiquette. Veteran players have never been shy about criticizing the younger generation about their approach and respect for the game (I recall Griffey, Jr catching heat for wearing his cap backwards during one of his early HR Derby appearances)
(Just asking the un-asked question...)

quote:

I recollect a couple of dancers during a rain delay of a college game!

I remember seeing the largest slip-n-slide on the infield during an MLB rain delay. Nothing about "team" went through those guys heads, but I loved every minute of it. And glad no one got hurt, whew!

quote:

Originally posted by danno:

quote:

I recollect a couple of dancers during a rain delay of a college game!

I remember seeing the largest slip-n-slide on the infield during an MLB rain delay. Nothing about "team" went through those guys heads, but I loved every minute of it. And glad no one got hurt, whew!

I think we can all recall baseball "incidents", but I doubt as with other sports, it will ever be considered the "norm".

So playing around during a rain delay equates to the same thing other players do in other sports during the game?

When is the last time you saw a ss trash talk to the hitter when he throws him out at first base?

I can tell you this if you tried that kind of stuff in baseball it would get really ugly really quick. Players will not stand for it. They have too much respect for the game.

"It sickens me to see what goes on in some of these other sports. Its has become a "look at me" "trash talking" "no respect for the opponent" enviroment.

I couldn't agree more. I believe it comes down to parents and coaches allowing this from early on. My son plays football and baseball. His football or baseball coach does not and never will allow this type of behavior, neither will I. I can speak for most of the parents of the kids on my son's teams, they do not allow it either. Son's football and baseball coach teach respect for the game, each other and their opponents. I have seen my share of this stuff on the football and baseball field. A lot of it comes from schools that you would not expect it to. Sticking birds from the dugout, cussing, pumping up chests after a hit, makes me ill.

quote:

"It sickens me to see what goes on in some of these other sports. Its has become a "look at me" "trash talking" "no respect for the opponent" enviroment.

I couldn't agree more. I believe it comes down to parents and coaches allowing this from early on.

Agree 100% with what you and coach may said. Unfortunately, society has been moving this way for some time now. I guess that means baseball will continue to die a slow death as there simply won't be kids who want to or are taught to respect the game (heck, alot are not even respecting their parents, teachers, employers...)

How the class and style is maintained---my son as a 17year older was playing in a summer league with ex college and pro players and hitting third in the lineup--comes one game and he hits a "bomb" but stand st at hom eplate to admire it then makes his trip around the bases----funny thing happened--nobody at home to congratulate him and the cold should in the dugout---after the game I asked him what happened---well the on deck batter, some 6or 7 years older and quite more experienced , really lit into him in the dugout about being a "dandy"---he never showboated again

This is how the game maintains its class ---the older players teach the younger ones---the class is passed along

You know what guys I am going to disagree w almost everyone.

I saw the mugging for the camera and I did not like it personally but it was also very much 17 yr olds having a lot of fun.

I asked the question earlier today: what was wrong with the announcements of their college?

Nobody has yet said what they did not like about the college announcements.

The annoucements I watched were done either w parents or done in the crowd w their hometown fans. 3 of the boys thanked God, their parents and their coaches.

I think the mob mentallity has taken over here. Besides the sideline clowning, it was very much a "Exibition Football Game" w kids!

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
So playing around during a rain delay equates to the same thing other players do in other sports during the game?

The point is both situations were designed to be fun. This was an exhibition football game. It was a party. I believe people are overreacting.

We will just have to disagree but thats ok.

I guess you see some LL teams mugg the camera at times also.

IMHO, The experience of playing in a game like that, being selected as one of the "Best", it would be an opportunity for me show respect for the game that put me where I was. There's before and after the game for grins and giggles. When that whistle blows it's all about I've accomplished, how I've grown, and showing respect for the University that's made a commitment to me. Maybe that's "old school" but I see no other way, almost could be seen as one of those steps to manhood.

On the other hand, the camera does strange things to a person and maybe some of the blame should be directed toward the media who's looking for that "shot".

There was a time when players policed themselves, then the ref's and the league stepped in to do it better, it's gotten worse. The day I saw the tides change...

Can't remember the recievers name, but caught a pass, jumped up an starts running his mouth, grill to grill with Bill Romanowski. Romanowski spit in his face. The league, the press, and the public vilified Romanowski. I stood and applauded Romanowski.