baserunning

If he had entered the bench or dugout area, PU should have called him out for abandoning his effort to reach 1st base. If not, he does not have to return to the plate and can run directly to 1st. However, he will most certainly be out of the 45 ft. running lane, and is subject to being called out for interference if he interferes with F3's attempt to field the throw from F2, IF it is a quality throw that had a chance of retiring him.

So if there were no throw you would let him cut across the diamond and go to first. I agree somewhat but if a coach comes out to argue what rule do I have to stand on here?

There is no rule that says you must run directly to any base. You cannot run more than 3 feet out of YOUR (not THE) baseline TO AVOID A TAG, and YOUR baseline is defined as a direct line from the runner to the base. In other words, the baserunner establishes his own baseline, but unless there is a fielder attempting to tag him, this baseline is meaningless.

One exception is the Force Play Slide Rule, which requires the runner to slide directly to a base on a force play (this rule prevents a runner from breaking up a double play by sliding into the fielder, unless the fielder is directly in front of the base).

There is a (bush league, IMO) play called "skunk in the outfield," generally attempted with runners on 1st and 3rd and less than 2 out. Before a pitch, the runner on 1st will run into right field and stand there, hoping to draw a throw from the pitcher so the runner from 3rd can score. In so doing, the runner has not violated any rule. If there is a play on him, his baseline is now established as a direct line from his position (in right field) directly to 2nd base. If he heads back towards 1st, he establishes a new baseline from his new position directly toward 1st. If he runs more than 3 feet from this baseline to avoid a tag, he's out for being out of the baseline.

Oops - I forgot to answer your original question - what do you say to the coach who comes out to chew on you. The answer is, "coach, he didn't go into the dugout (or bench area), so he's still entitled to try to reach 1st base, and he can run anywhere he wants to get there." I wouldn't bring up the stuff about running more than 3 feet out of his baseline to avoid a tag, or running outside the 45 foot running lane because neither applies in this situation. ALWAYS answer a coach's question with as few words as possible.

The answer depends on what rulebook you are using. In OBR and also NCAA, I think, once you leave the dirt around home you are out. This is a new rule in the Pro book and I think NCAA followed suit. In HS you can still cut across the infield. You base your ruling on the fact that you are allowed a line directly between where you are and where the base is located. The only thing the runner has to worry about is not going more than three feet in either direction to avoid a tag. No tag attempt and that rule is moot. Don't quote me on the NCAA rule because I'm not sure about that. I left our local college group a couple of years ago and haven't kept entirely current on the rule changes.

You have it right about leaving the dirt circle in OBR and NCAA Michael. I only quoted the FED rule because this is a high school website.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Athensump:
So if there were no throw you would let him cut across the diamond and go to first. I agree somewhat but if a coach comes out to argue what rule do I have to stand on here?[/QUOTE

dash correctly answered this but you could add that the runner deserves the base if your catcher and firstbasemen can't get it together by the time a batter walks toward the dug out and then all the way across the infield

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If he had entered the bench or dugout area

Not to be picky (but a coach might be...), is one foot crossing the line or entering the dugout area (the other foot still in live ball territory) sufficient to rule abandoning the opportunity to run to first?

You never know when this might happen...

Since the subject of picky came up...I believe before you reach first it's technically considered desertion. Afterward it's abandonment.

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Originally posted by cookie:

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If he had entered the bench or dugout area

Not to be picky (but a coach might be...), is one foot crossing the line or entering the dugout area (the other foot still in live ball territory) sufficient to rule abandoning the opportunity to run to first?

You never know when this might happen...

I'm watching for this. As soon as a foot goes in the dugout, I am LOUDLY calling him out. There won't be any argument.

Let me ask you knowledgable guys this then. Lets say the same play has happened but he is going to the first base dugout and the gate is at the far end of the dugout. Again just before he reaches the dugout the coach yells for him to run. Then he only has say 20-25 feet to get to first, then what? I am not trrying to be a problem here but just thinking about possible " mishaps " on the field. This may never happen but you never know. I do appreciate the earlier comments.

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Originally posted by Kimosabe:
Since the subject of picky came up...I believe before you reach first it's technically considered desertion. Afterward it's abandonment.

Thanks for the distinction, Kimosabe. "Desertion" is the correct word, at least according to Carl Childress's definition - "desertion (abandonment before touching first base)" p. 278 2008 BRD. I was just using the definition rather than the word.

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Originally posted by Athensump:
Let me ask you knowledgable guys this then. Lets say the same play has happened but he is going to the first base dugout and the gate is at the far end of the dugout. Again just before he reaches the dugout the coach yells for him to run. Then he only has say 20-25 feet to get to first, then what? I am not trrying to be a problem here but just thinking about possible " mishaps " on the field. This may never happen but you never know. I do appreciate the earlier comments.

This is interesting,Athensump. I've always wondered about what I would do in a siutation like this (and the other one about "entered the dugout"), though I haven't encountered it yet in my brief umpiring experience (2 years - so discount me as one of the "knowledgeable Guys"). I think, technically, BR can do this in Fed baseball. Perhaps BR is luring the defense into sleepiness by pretending to be out, and without the coach even yelling at him to run, BR on his own just before he enters the first-base-side dugout rips toward first base from the dugout entrance catching a snoozing defense.) As an umpire, I've got to allow it, and call BR safe if he makes it first. Hopefully, an umpire will not make beforehand an erroneous call of out after the strike three call...

The new OBR-based "leaving the dirt circle" rule eliminates this kind of BR cunning. However, it still leaves me with what is leaving the "dirt circle" - one foot outside the circle or both? I see that Dash Riprock would sell the out on a BR entering one foot into the dugout, and likewise do the same here?

Perhaps Fed should consider implementing the OBR rule. Babe Ruth League baseball (mostly OBR-based) has incorporated this ruling into its 2008 rule book - changing it from what it was in its 2007 rule book. Anyone know how American Legion ball stands with new ruling about leaving the dirt circle?

I would love to see the Fed get in line with "if he leaves the dirt". It would make things alot simpler. The way it is written now you are allowing the batter runner to con the defense.

The FED rule says the BR can be called out when he enters the dugout "area," so it's umpire judgement as to when you can bang him out.

You owe the BR and F2 a "no catch" mechanic (verbal and visual) especially when F2 short-hops the pitch, i.e., when it isn't obvious that F2 didn't catch the 3rd strike. This will usually get him to run and avoid me having to call him out for abandonment.

An aside -- If it is a checked swing with men on base (and the BR is entitled to run on a DTS), you should IMMEDIATELY ask your partner for help without being asked. The last thing you want is for F2 to throw the ball away and have runners move up and/or score when there was no need for him to throw to 1st in the first place.