bases loaded bunt...

You’re not very clear in your explanation. Is the runner safe at home? If he is out it is a FC.

A little unclear on the explanation. Like BOF said, if runner is out at home, it's a FC. If all runners are safe, it becomes a matter of the scorekeeper's judgement. If he felt that the batter would have been safe at 1st if the play would have been made there, it is a hit. If he felt that the batter would have been thrown out if a play had been made to 1st, it's a FC. I think the only way it could be scored a SAC bunt is if the play was made to 1st and they got the batter out. You may be able to make a case for a SAC in that situation, but I don't think you can if a play was made on another runner.

I've had situations like this several times over the years as a scorekeeper. More times than not I scored it as a FC regardless if an out was made or not made at home. My thinking is that the fielder made a "choice" to try to get the out at home, so you really can't judge if the out could have been made at first. Now if a fielder (usually pitcher or third baseman) tries to get batter at first, I give the hit if he beats the throw out. I have also scored the SAC when a batter clearly just got the bunt down on the first base side and the pitcher's only play was at first. As said earlier, so much of this is scorer's judgement.

quote:

Originally posted by OK Heat:
I've had situations like this several times over the years as a scorekeeper. More times than not I scored it as a FC regardless if an out was made or not made at home. My thinking is that the fielder made a "choice" to try to get the out at home, so you really can't judge if the out could have been made at first. Now if a fielder (usually pitcher or third baseman) tries to get batter at first, I give the hit if he beats the throw out. I have also scored the SAC when a batter clearly just got the bunt down on the first base side and the pitcher's only play was at first. As said earlier, so much of this is scorer's judgement.

OK Heat I'm with you. Almost anytime a fielder chooses to make a play on any offensive player that is not the batter and the batter is safe, I consider it to be a FC. OKHeat explains it well.

I've found that when I'm guessing and wondering about situations, the best solution is to see what the rulebook says. Bunt situations and FC's can be a little confusing sometimes, but OBR is pretty clear on all the different scenarios:

Let's consider the original post: bunt; runner is safe at home; batter is safe at first:

10.08 SACRIFICES
"The official scorer shall:
(b) Score a sacrifice bunt when, before two are out, the fielders handle a bunted ball
without error in an unsuccessful attempt to put out a preceding runner advancing
one base, unless, an attempt to turn a bunt into a putout of a preceding runner fails,
and in the judgment of the official scorer ordinary effort would not have put out the
batter at first base, in which case the batter shall be credited with a one-base hit and
not a sacrifice;"

So in the scenario posted, it's scorekeeper's judgment: SAC or 1B. And those are the only two you have to choose from.


Now, if the runner had been thrown out, then it becomes this:

"(c) Not score a sacrifice bunt when any runner is put out attempting to advance one
base on a bunt, in which case the official scorer shall charge the batter with a time at
bat;"

That's where it would be scored as a FC.

And to help on FC's in general (grounders, not bunts):

Rule 2.00 — Definitions of Terms.
"FIELDER’S CHOICE is the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an
attempt to put out a preceding runner."

Hope that helps.

Ok then. Looks like I have to reconsider how I score this situation. It would seem in most cases that most bunts to the left side would probably be considered hits if no out is made, a FC if the runner is out at home, or a sac if the batter is put out. If the scorer has to give judgement on wheather or not a play could have been made on them, I would certainly side with the batter on a do or die bunt on the left side. It would also seem in most cases that a bunt to the right side would be considered a sac if the out is made at first or once again an FC if made at home. Thanks for the rule book, I also usually go there when unsure, thought I knew this one. I've often wondered if I should reward a good bunt in this situation with a hit.

OK -- regarding scorekeepers' judgments ... not to make this more involved than it already is, but just FYI, there is yet another scenario that requires the scorekeeper to make an additional judgment call.
10.08(a) states that with less than 2 outs, if the batter:
- bunts
- and advances the runner(s),
- and is thrown out at first

... then in your judgment as scorer if you think he was bunting exclusively for a base hit (and not sacrificing himself), then you have to charge him with a time at bat. It goes on to say in the comment that in this case you should give the benefit of the doubt to the runner).

Baseball -- gotta love it!!

quote:

Originally posted by RPD:

10.08 SACRIFICES
"The official scorer shall:
(b) Score a sacrifice bunt when, before two are out, .

So let me ask what might be a stupid question. If there are two outs, the fielder chooses to go home instead of 1B,and the runner is safe at home,how would you record that? That seems so me to be a FC. Would that be correct?

It's not a stupid question, but it is answered in 10.05 Base Hits
(a) The official scorer shall credit a batter with a base hit when:
......
(6) a fielder unsuccessfully attempts to put out a preceding runner and, in the official scorer’s judgment, the batter-runner would not have been put out at first base by ordinary effort.

And

(b) The official scorer shall not credit a base hit when a:
....
(4) fielder fails in an attempt to put out a preceding runner and, in the scorer’s judgment, the batter-runner could have been put out at first base; or ...

Rule 10.05(b) Comment: Rule 10.05(b) shall not apply if the fielder merely looks toward or feints toward another base before attempting to make the putout at first base.

RPD: Your quote from Rule 2.0 leads me off track here a little bit:

Runner on 1b. SS fields a ground ball, thinks about trying to get the force at 2b, even turns his body and feints to throw, then re-sets himself and throws to 1b, but runner beats it. I always thought this was a FC becuase his move toward 2b was a "choice" and delayed his throw. Doesn't appear to be true. So instead, a single for the hitter?

Rule 10.12(a)(1) "Comment: Slow handling of the ball that does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error. For example, the official scorer shall not charge a fielder with an error if such fielder fields a ground ball cleanly but does not throw to first base in time to retire the batter."
...
"The official scorer shall not charge an error to a fielder who incorrectly throws to the wrong base on a play."

I'd tend to say that this, combined with the fact that your situation doesn't fit the definition of a FC, would lead me to score it as a single.