Bat Flips, Six Shooters and Improving Viewership

LOL

I'm generally not a big bat-flip fan, particularly of the "show-up" variety, but I have to say I've become a fan of Luis Valbuena (LA Angels) because of his bat flips.  He pauses and bat flips on any well hit ball, even a one-hopper easy out to SS.  He's just so expressive and it's really pretty funny to watch.  He's become must-see TV in our house, along with watching Mike Trout hit.

I think BB players are WAY too sensy-poo. What is the big problem with a bat flip, or blowing on the barrel of your six gun after throwing  someone out at second? As long as it's not right in an opponents face, I like to see some celebration. My  14yo likes to "give thanks" after a big hit. Everybody in the dugout thinks it's funny, and some of the kids on the other team do too. It's only the miserable old buggers who have a problem with it. 

I see way too many parents in the stands for BB games. Not enough kids. Maybe they are trying to tell us something.

57special posted:

I think BB players are WAY too sensy-poo. What is the big problem with a bat flip, or blowing on the barrel of your six gun after throwing  someone out at second? As long as it's not right in an opponents face, I like to see some celebration. My  14yo likes to "give thanks" after a big hit. Everybody in the dugout thinks it's funny, and some of the kids on the other team do too. It's only the miserable old buggers who have a problem with it. 

I see way too many parents in the stands for BB games. Not enough kids. Maybe they are trying to tell us something.

You are probably right but I suspect the vast majority here (including me) are more of the "act like you've been there before" mindset.  In the right context some celebration and shenanigans are ok and actually enjoyed - a bat flip or celebrating a game winning RBI kind of thing ok.  Solo HR when your team is down 6 - 0 (or up a ton), probably not so much!  It's all about the context LOL!

57special posted:

I think BB players are WAY too sensy-poo. What is the big problem with a bat flip, or blowing on the barrel of your six gun after throwing  someone out at second? As long as it's not right in an opponents face, I like to see some celebration. My  14yo likes to "give thanks" after a big hit. Everybody in the dugout thinks it's funny, and some of the kids on the other team do too. It's only the miserable old buggers who have a problem with it. 

I see way too many parents in the stands for BB games. Not enough kids. Maybe they are trying to tell us something.

Good.  Now this thread should reach at least 3 pages.

BTW.  You couldn't be more wrong. 

How about when a player hits a homer he does back flips around the bases while chortling “hee hee haw haw” at the pitcher? How about the pitcher shows his review of the act by sticking a four seamer in the next hitter’s ear hole? After all, it’s just entertainment! 

I don’t have a problem with natural reaction emotion. But preplanned, scripted celebrations are unnecessary crap. It’s a baseball game not a circus. I don’t understand the need to show up the opposition with antics. It’s a sad statement on what society has become. 

In the NFL players are celebrating almost every tackle. It’s obnoxious.

If you're being serious on that one RJM, I'd like to see that.  Gotta link?

57special posted:

I think BB players are WAY too sensy-poo. What is the big problem with a bat flip, or blowing on the barrel of your six gun after throwing  someone out at second? As long as it's not right in an opponents face, I like to see some celebration. My  14yo likes to "give thanks" after a big hit. Everybody in the dugout thinks it's funny, and some of the kids on the other team do too. It's only the miserable old buggers who have a problem with it. 

I see way too many parents in the stands for BB games. Not enough kids. Maybe they are trying to tell us something.

You have obviously never played the game.

adbono posted:

57special posted:

I think BB players are WAY too sensy-poo. What is the big problem with a bat flip, or blowing on the barrel of your six gun after throwing  someone out at second? As long as it's not right in an opponents face, I like to see some celebration. My  14yo likes to "give thanks" after a big hit. Everybody in the dugout thinks it's funny, and some of the kids on the other team do too. It's only the miserable old buggers who have a problem with it. 

I see way too many parents in the stands for BB games. Not enough kids. Maybe they are trying to tell us something.

You have obviously never played the game.

and you would be wrong.

I'm old enough to understand that what is perceived as "old time baseball" right now is not that, and that baseball is in a constant state of change, whether "purists" recognize it or not. What I see is a game that is not appealing to young spectators, and is in a distinct danger of losing it's future audience, like golf.

Baseball never used to take over 3 hours to play. I never used to have to watch batters redo the velcro on their gloves after every pitch, multiple times, and call for a time out  every third pitch. Or have endless meetings on the mound. I watched TCU play an 11 inning game the other day...they used 10 pitchers! We have an endless succession of K's, and balls not being put in play. It's bloody boring.

  Perhaps you think that Baseball should be geared towards middle aged men...I think you're wrong. It's a snooze right now.

Below is an interesting comparison of two games with similar game statistics from 1984 vs 2014. The 1984 game lasted 2 hrs 31 minutes and the 2014 game lasted 3 hrs 6 minutes. I was expecting the bulk of the time to be commercials. It wasn't. It was the time between pitches. It's only one game, but I think it's enlightening.

https://www.sbnation.com/a/mlb...-preview/game-length

As an aside, the players today are so much better than when I was falling in love with baseball in the '60s. Take the time to watch some old games on youtube. You want to see viewership fall? Put that '60s product out on the field now, even with their 2.5 hour games, and you'd have trouble competing with darts, curling, and corn hole on ESPN.

You can cherry pick games to make a point. I checked the calendar and tried to make sure Clay Buchholz wasn’t pitching before I bought Sox tickets. Buchholz was a human rain delay.

I don’t understand what is so entertaining about taunting and showing up the other team. As I previous stated natural emotion is real. If a player is practicing his showboating in a mirror to prepare for a celebration stick one in his ear hole. Let him celebrate his head ringing.

If we’re looking for entertainment why not ear hole hitters and have a brawl? There are entire videos on hockey fights. It must be entertaining. Every baseball team could have a goon on the bench.

I think it'd be nice to see more celebrations just like there is in oh I don't know every single other sport in existence?  Pro sports are tough.  Any kind of personal glory is well deserved. 

If all the other sports were jumping off of a bridge do you think baseball should too?

Fly around the bases, take the extra base, go all out on defense....that, to me, generates more excitement and gets the fans off their seats, more than a bat flip.

I think MLB should also do something about the defensive shifts.  I think that's hurting the game, as well hit balls are turning into outs.  Institute a rule that you need 2 guys on either side of second base.

Teaching Elder posted:

If all the other sports were jumping off of a bridge do you think baseball should too?

I guess Tennis doesn't have any of that, except for an occasional fist pump followed by 10 hail mary's.  It'd be funny if a baseball stadium announcer said "quiet please" to the crowd before every pitch.  

Teaching Elder posted:

Everyone seems to want to increase viewership with the younger crowd.  

ehhh.. get off my lawn

I was amused at the young lady from Washington last night in the College World Series.  When she hit the HR, she stopped and slammed her bat down and looked at the pitcher from FSU, then slowly began the trot.  I was waiting for the ear hole with the next batter but it didn't come.  Not just a baseball thing.

Girls should not do sports in which they do not look cute in their uniforms.

hsbaseball101 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

If all the other sports were jumping off of a bridge do you think baseball should too?

I guess Tennis doesn't have any of that, except for an occasional fist pump followed by 10 hail mary's.  It'd be funny if a baseball stadium announcer said "quiet please" to the crowd before every pitch.  

It's hard to get people to watch most anything other than their phones these days.

 MLB needs a PR campaign about being America's true and original pastime.  

* Flag waving in the breeze behind a fence in an old New York stadium, or Wriggly Field.   Pan across a stadium full of immigrants all standing, dirty faces and different noses, side-by-side, hats off, reverent.  Shift to the base paths with men standing hats off, different nationalities, honoring our nation.  Show different fields, different teams, different times including the 60s, 70s, 80s 90s.  Show footage of the old negro leagues with players along the base paths honoring the flag.   Show footage of the greats who left baseball to fight in WWII.

Move to footage of various players of various nationalities playing.  (Clip of Koufax pitching, clip of Jackson hitting.  Clip of Robbinson.  clip of Mays' miraculous catch.  Clips of Alomar, Babe Ruth and Caribbean players.    Show clips of a racially diverse team celebrating and hugging after winning a championship, brothers-in-arms.

Final clip, modern day players standing along the base paths, crowd standing in respect, transpose the graphic along with a solemn but confident and firm voice saying,  "America's Pastime".

CTbballDad posted:

I think MLB should also do something about the defensive shifts.  I think that's hurting the game, as well hit balls are turning into outs.  Institute a rule that you need 2 guys on either side of second base.

You know, there used to be a rule that required pitchers to throw the ball where the batter asked for it.  Maybe we should go back to that too.

A solution in search of a problem? Baseball TV ratings are up:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/m...n-2017/#37a95ada2313

https://www.forbes.com/sites/m...h-team/#56c5ff463799

http://awfulannouncing.com/lea...-regular-season.html

Honestly, I used to be a purist and I never understood why until i realized it's because that's what I was told how to feel.  Then I started thinking about it from my HS coach perspective when people say my kids should act like they have been there before.  Thing is - they literally have never been there before.  They did something great and they want to celebrate so what's wrong with that?

People have personalities - some are very quiet, some are loud and some like to have a good time.  This is what I don't understand about bat flips - the hardest thing to do is sports is hit a round ball with a round bat squarely.  In fact if you fail 70% of the time you're really good at hitting.  So with all that difficulty and infrequent success why shouldn't a guy flip his bat if he really hits a pitch with authority?  

I guess I really don't know where I stand on this and there's not a clear cut answer.  I like having fun.  I like celebrating success.  I don't like showing up the other team / players.  I don't like making a travesty of the game.  Who makes those decisions of what is too much / too far?  Why do they get to make that decision instead of me or someone else?

All I know and what I tell my guys is if you don't like the other team doing that stuff then get their ass out.  You don't get their ass out then you better try harder / execute better next time.

All I know and what I tell my guys is if you don't like the other team doing that stuff then get their ass out.  You don't get their ass out then you better try harder / execute better next time.

This is a key take away.   There is no need to sit around whining about what someone else says, does.  Get them out if you don't like it.

Except in the case of one team we played in the playoffs this year.  Some dude brought a pair of drumsticks and beat on the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket while another guy beat the handle of a bat on the dugout wall the whole game.   That was just bush league in my opinion.   But, I guess someone could write a book on "Bush-leaguing your way to victory.  What's 'bush' to them maybe your winning strategy."

2019Dad posted:

A solution in search of a problem? Baseball TV ratings are up:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/m...n-2017/#37a95ada2313

https://www.forbes.com/sites/m...h-team/#56c5ff463799

http://awfulannouncing.com/lea...-regular-season.html

Well, there goes my budding advertising career.

coach2709 posted:

All I know and what I tell my guys is if you don't like the other team doing that stuff then get their ass out.  You don't get their ass out then you better try harder / execute better next time.

You're in good company.

https://twitter.com/brentzwern.../1003110090658938882

PitchingFan posted:

I was amused at the young lady from Washington last night in the College World Series.  When she hit the HR, she stopped and slammed her bat down and looked at the pitcher from FSU, then slowly began the trot.  I was waiting for the ear hole with the next batter but it didn't come.  Not just a baseball thing.

Typically not a girl thing. There are girls who are very intense competitors. But girls are less likely to lose their cool. 

I like raw emotion. But have some feel. Hitting a solo bomb down by 7 in the bottom of the 7th with 2 outs and you flip the bat? Striking out a guy and giving him the 6 shooters after your butt's been shelled? For me if it's a big moment and the emotion is raw and it just happens that's cool. Creating it and flaunting it and disrespecting your opponent? I just find that pathetic. I don't like team cheers from the dugout. "Not Even - CLOSE." That one gets me. Planned out celebrations just seem so - punk.  

Like Coach said earlier when we play someone that is all into that stuff I just tell my guys it's real easy to deal with. Don't give them anything to celebrate. Kick their a__ and they will shut up. But of course those are typically the teams that don't have any feel for the game in the first place and celebrate a base hit like walk off when their about to get run ruled. Their the team that warms up before the game in front of the dugout. Plays pepper against the dug out fence. Leaves their trash in the dugout. Coach argues every call. Coach gives signs for 2 minutes to the hitter with 2 outs and no one on. Basically clowns doing what clowns do. 

There is nothing like the raw true emotion of the game. There is nothing more punk than creating it in order to hot dog the moment. 

Coach_May posted:

I like raw emotion. But have some feel. Hitting a solo bomb down by 7 in the bottom of the 7th with 2 outs and you flip the bat? Striking out a guy and giving him the 6 shooters after your butt's been shelled? For me if it's a big moment and the emotion is raw and it just happens that's cool. Creating it and flaunting it and disrespecting your opponent? I just find that pathetic. I don't like team cheers from the dugout. "Not Even - CLOSE." That one gets me. Planned out celebrations just seem so - punk.  

Like Coach said earlier when we play someone that is all into that stuff I just tell my guys it's real easy to deal with. Don't give them anything to celebrate. Kick their a__ and they will shut up. But of course those are typically the teams that don't have any feel for the game in the first place and celebrate a base hit like walk off when their about to get run ruled. Their the team that warms up before the game in front of the dugout. Plays pepper against the dug out fence. Leaves their trash in the dugout. Coach argues every call. Coach gives signs for 2 minutes to the hitter with 2 outs and no one on. Basically clowns doing what clowns do. 

There is nothing like the raw true emotion of the game. There is nothing more punk than creating it in order to hot dog the moment. 

That's precisely why I don't like to call pitches.  If I call pitches and we still get run-ruled, how bad does that make me look?  But hey, I do have to let my kids celebrate their first hit of the year even if we're down 18-0.  It's bad on the other side too, such as celebrating a grand slam or no hitter against a HS team who obviously has no business being on the field.  

hsbaseball101 posted:

Coach_May posted:

I like raw emotion. But have some feel. Hitting a solo bomb down by 7 in the bottom of the 7th with 2 outs and you flip the bat? Striking out a guy and giving him the 6 shooters after your butt's been shelled? For me if it's a big moment and the emotion is raw and it just happens that's cool. Creating it and flaunting it and disrespecting your opponent? I just find that pathetic. I don't like team cheers from the dugout. "Not Even - CLOSE." That one gets me. Planned out celebrations just seem so - punk.  

Like Coach said earlier when we play someone that is all into that stuff I just tell my guys it's real easy to deal with. Don't give them anything to celebrate. Kick their a__ and they will shut up. But of course those are typically the teams that don't have any feel for the game in the first place and celebrate a base hit like walk off when their about to get run ruled. Their the team that warms up before the game in front of the dugout. Plays pepper against the dug out fence. Leaves their trash in the dugout. Coach argues every call. Coach gives signs for 2 minutes to the hitter with 2 outs and no one on. Basically clowns doing what clowns do. 

There is nothing like the raw true emotion of the game. There is nothing more punk than creating it in order to hot dog the moment. 

That's precisely why I don't like to call pitches.  If I call pitches and we still get run-ruled, how bad does that make me look?  But hey, I do have to let my kids celebrate their first hit of the year even if we're down 18-0.  It's bad on the other side too, such as celebrating a grand slam or no hitter against a HS team who obviously has no business being on the field.  

I agree with all of the above. People that are in favor of all the disrespectful actions & staged theatre (which they view as entertainment) are not the ones that are on the field and have to deal with (and clean up) all the mess it creates.