bat q

quote:

Originally posted by thecloser:
With all the bat regulations coming up in high school baseball.
How does one tell if a bat is actually composite and not just aluminum?
Without reading anything on the bat, don't aluminum and composite bats look alike?
Are there decals on a composite bat stating such?

It doesn't matter. Wood or non-wood is all we need to determine. If it's non-wood, it needs a BESR certification on the bat.

I thought composite bats, (even BESR approved), starting this year, would be illegal.
If they are illegal, how does one tell the difference between a composite bat vs an aluminum bat?

quote:

Originally posted by thecloser:
I thought composite bats, (even BESR approved), starting this year, would be illegal.
If they are illegal, how does one tell the difference between a composite bat vs an aluminum bat?

You're right. If it doesn't have the BBCOR silkscreen I guess we'll just have to "tink" it. No tink, no BBCOR, no can use.

Composite barrels have to have a BESR silk screen and be on the waiver list. Or, it can have a BBCOR silk screen and it doesn't matter what it is made from. The handle and taper can be whatever material.

How do I know if a bat is aluminum or composite?

I haven't checked a bunch but most say on the barrel.

NOT all composite bats are illegal as stated above.... All BBCOR composites are legal.

Here is the list of Composite BESR bats that are legal...

Product Name / Model (Length)
DeMarini CF4 (-3) / CFB10 (31 to 34)
DeMarini CF4 (-3) / CFB11 (31 to 34)
Vendetta C6 (-3) / VCB10 (31 to 34)
Vendetta C6 (-3) / VCB11 (31 to 34)
Combat / B1AB2 (31 to 34)
Combat / B1AB2-R (31 to 34)
Combat / B2AB1 (31 to 34)
Louisville Slugger / CBXD (31 to 34)
Louisville Slugger / CBXT (31 to 34)
Louisville Slugger / CB81C (33 only)
Louisville Slugger / CB83 (33 only)

NOTE: THERE ARE NO EASTON BESR COMPOSITE BATS ON THIS LIST

So if you or your players have BESR Composite Bats that are not on this list above... they are illegal as simple as that.

It is also HIGHLY RECOMMENDED and each coach (in our area) has been told to carry the list so there are no questions. If there is as questionable bat and a coach does not have the list with them the bat will be removed from the game.

Most composite bats are generally 2 pcs and to show off the composite material the bats have small windows in the handle that show the carbon fibers. Carbon Fibers in the handle are LEGAL. What makes the bat legal/illegal is the ABI rating which strictly refers to the BARREL!

So that is it in a nutshell not that hard to understand...

...it's not hard to understand, except for us parents forking over $300 a bat and hoping the umpire doesn't declare it illegal one game and legal the next.

My son has a DeMarini Voodoo which is supposedly not composite and legal this year, but I'll bet you at some point this season it's declared illegal by an overly ambitious umpire.

On another note, Jr & I visited a major university this past weekend which was sponsored by Easton on a recruiting trip. The director of BB operations had six broken bats in his truck that needed to be sent back from "last week". The end caps come off sounding just like a wood bat when it breaks. I personally saw it happen twice. He sends them back every week and gets a bunch of replacements, but it definitely appears a design issue needs to be resolved...

quote:

Originally posted by TX-Ump74:
NOT all composite bats are illegal as stated above.... All BBCOR composites are legal.

Here is the list of Composite BESR bats that are legal...

Product Name / Model (Length)
DeMarini CF4 (-3) / CFB10 (31 to 34)
DeMarini CF4 (-3) / CFB11 (31 to 34)
Vendetta C6 (-3) / VCB10 (31 to 34)
Vendetta C6 (-3) / VCB11 (31 to 34)
Combat / B1AB2 (31 to 34)
Combat / B1AB2-R (31 to 34)
Combat / B2AB1 (31 to 34)
Louisville Slugger / CBXD (31 to 34)
Louisville Slugger / CBXT (31 to 34)
Louisville Slugger / CB81C (33 only)
Louisville Slugger / CB83 (33 only)

NOTE: THERE ARE NO EASTON BESR COMPOSITE BATS ON THIS LIST

So if you or your players have BESR Composite Bats that are not on this list above... they are illegal as simple as that.

It is also HIGHLY RECOMMENDED and each coach (in our area) has been told to carry the list so there are no questions. If there is as questionable bat and a coach does not have the list with them the bat will be removed from the game.

Most composite bats are generally 2 pcs and to show off the composite material most composite bats have small windows in the handle that show the carbon fibers.

So that is it in a nutshell not that hard to understand...

In my explanation I said if it had BBCOR marking it didn't matter what it was made from. If it has a composite with BESR only it has to have a waiver.

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:

My son has a DeMarini Voodoo which is supposedly not composite and legal this year, but I'll bet you at some point this season it's declared illegal by an overly ambitious umpire...

What is the Model number of the Voodoo your son has... I will look it up and let you know what you can expect...

All good answers....in Orlando BBCOR requirement does not take effect until spring 2012 since too many BBCOR bats were on back-order from vendors. BESR bats have to be on the list provided by MST.

You have to go to your local organization regarding legal bats because it is all over the place, depending on where you live.

In California the CIF regulates HS athletics. BBCOR's or woods are required however this year there are BESR composite bats that are legal. Like many things in California none of this makes sense. (cents ($$) if you consider that bat companies)

Check with your assigner to be certain.
http://www.cifss.org/admin/ima...0Baseball%20Bats.doc

It's "simple".
If you live in a state other than CA:
Any metal BESR -3 bat is good for high school.
(BBCOR bats are legal but if you can use BESR why use BBCOR?)
If it's composite BESR it has to be on the waiver list: http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4155

In CA: Any BBCOR bat is legal (metal or composite)
Plus BESR composites on the waiver list:
http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4155
Any single piece wood bat is legal
Composite wood bats if BESR or BBCOR rated.

quote:

Originally posted by Hawghauler:
It's "simple".
If you live in a state other than CA:
Any metal BESR -3 bat is good for high school.
(BBCOR bats are legal but if you can use BESR why use BBCOR?)
If it's composite BESR it has to be on the waiver list: http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4155

In CA: Any BBCOR bat is legal (metal or composite)
Plus BESR composites on the waiver list:
http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4155
Any single piece wood bat is legal
Composite wood bats if BESR or BBCOR rated.

VA has it's own version too.
Bats: Aluminum to be BESR
Composite to be BBCOR only
Penalty for any illegal equipment (bats, helmets...) Out, EJ & sit 2 games.

Had not heard that VA had it's own version of the rules. Good luck!!

I find the penalty the most interesting part, any illegal equipment, helmets or bats, causes an out, ejection and sit two games.

TX-Ump74 - thanks, when jr recovers from the flu long enough to lift his head and point to said bat's location, I'll get a model number and have you run it.

For everyone - I don't believe in cheating and would never consider it, however I'm a software engineer by trade and not a metallurgist. There seems to be a lot of confusion out there, even though this appears on the surface to be a simple problem. Many of the other parents in these parts aren't even software engineers by trade, just simple hard working people who have to buy $300 bats every 9-15 months. For some, this is a significant investment and they'll be down right PO'd if their $300 investment is in an illegal hunk of ore.

My understanding was that composite handles are OK as long as the barrel is not composite (speaking of AZ and non-CA).

I'm pretty sure jr's bat is labled BESR and I know it's -3, but I'll check when I can get a few seconds of coherency.

Thank goodness he no longer has to perform in tryouts or he'd be looking at JV this year...

According to NFHS there are five parts to a non wood bat, the knob, the handle, the taper, the barrel and the cap. The only part they are concerned about is the barrel. The handle and taper can be any legal material. The handle does not need to be round and they can have holes.

MST is that the penalty in NJ also OUT,EJECTION AND SIT 2 GAMES?????

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:...My son has a DeMarini Voodoo which is supposedly not composite and legal this year, but I'll bet you at some point this season it's declared illegal by an overly ambitious umpire.

The voodoo is clearly an all metal bat. All 2011 and prior Voodoos are BESR certified. Why would it get thrown out? There is not exemption list for metal bats.

There are various Voodoo bats... and yes the all metal Voodoo bat is good to go especially the 2011 which is BBCOR... but some versions of the Voodoo bats use carbon fiber...that are only BESR

The VooDoo BBCOR bats have a metal barrel and a corbon fiber handle and they are legal BBCOR bats.

quote:

Originally posted by POLOGREEN:
MST is that the penalty in NJ also OUT,EJECTION AND SIT 2 GAMES?????

VA only. Several states are freelancing rules again this year.

Thanks MST strange bizzaro NFHS/STATE rules

Be glad you aren't in FL, they have messed with the DH rule and come up with a *******ized version of the NFHS/NCAA rule.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
Be glad you aren't in FL, they have messed with the DH rule and come up with a *******ized version of the NFHS/NCAA rule.

Or California where they have moved to the 2012 FED rule a year early...sort of.

This was sent out to Texas officials on Feb 25. Take a look at the website for a LONG list of approved bats.

NFHS Bat Standards for 2011 Baseball Season
RULE 1-3-2
KEY POINTS

ALUMINUM BATS
1. Aluminum bats that are BESR certified and labeled as such are legal for play in the 2011 season.
2. Any aluminum bat that meets the 2012 BBCOR standard and is appropriately labeled is legal for play in the 2011 season.
3. Any BESR or BBCOR certified bat is LEGAL that has NON-CYLINDRICAL parts such as the handle and taper.
a. This would include bats with holes in the taper, the taper has flat surfaces, and the handle is “V” shaped.
4. Bats which have an ALUMINUM BARREL and composite handle and are BESR certified are legal for play in the 2011 season. (Most of these are labeled as “half and half”)
a. The concern is with the BARREL of the bat, NOT the handle and/or taper.

COMPOSITE BATS
1. Any composite bat that meets the 2012 BBCOR standard and appropriately labeled, is legal for play in the 2011 season.
2. Solid core (not hollow) composite bats that are BESR certified and labeled are LEGAL for play in the 2011 season
3. There are certain BESR hollow composite bats that have passed the ABI testing and have been granted approval for play in 2011.
1.The majority of hollow composite BESR bats are NOT legal.
4.It is the responsibility of the Head Coaches to have at each game a copy of Approved Bat List.
1.If no list is available and there is a question as to a bat’s legality, it is by rule and the Umpire’s judgment as to whether the bat is legal for play.
2.It is NOT the officials’ role to carry the approved list with them.
c. The Approved list can be found at: http://www.mme.wsu.edu/~ssl/certified/besr/certified.htm

WOOD BATS
1. Wood bats shall be made out of one piece of wood
2. Wood bats shall be no more that 2-3/4 inch in diameter (it can be less, but not more)
3. Wood bats shall be no longer than 36 inches in length
There is NO weight standard for wooden bats

quote:

Originally posted by jwcain:
This was sent out to Texas officials on Feb 25. Take a look at the website for a LONG list of approved bats.

The list is long because it contains ALL legal bats, including solid wood and those with BESR and BBCOR markings. There is no need to carry that information.

Just set the barrel setting to "c" for composite and you will see the relatively short list of waivered bats. That is what you need to be most aware of.

Check the eighth post for the list in the post by Texump