The main topic at the NFHS on June 7th was bat shaving and the affects it has on high school baseball. Would like to know your thoughts on the topic.
Is it getting out of control or not a issue in your area?
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Welcome to the HSBBW sportsaz. I don't know if bat shaving is really a concern around here or not. Years ago, when I would help clean out the dug out following games, I would find a few of these laying around in the bushes near the trash can...
Evidence of bat shaving?
Living in Cook Co. ask me about ballot stuffing. There's no doubt about that!
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Welcome to the HSBBW sportsaz. I don't know if bat shaving is really a concern around here or not. Years ago, when I would help clean out the dug out following games, I would find a few of these laying around in the bushes near the trash can...
Evidence of bat shaving?
Living in Cook Co. ask me about ballot stuffing. There's no doubt about that!
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Did you do that on your ipad?
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Wait, there's more!!
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Still more? Of course there is!
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Still more? Of course there is!
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Things are getting out of control here in Northern Illinois and it is not an issue here in our area. Sorry.
How about it folks. Bat shaving? A big deal in your neck of the woods?
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- "Is it getting out of control or not a issue in your area?"
Things are getting out of control here in Northern Illinois and it is not an issue here in our area. Sorry.
How about it folks. Bat shaving? A big deal in your neck of the woods?
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sportsaz, we should probably apologize to you. This is a very informational site but we also like to have a little fun.
Please forgive us for our excessive "photobucketing" and maybe you'll get a real answer to your question.
Please forgive us for our excessive "photobucketing" and maybe you'll get a real answer to your question.
quote:Originally posted by sportsaz:
The main topic at the NFHS on June 7th was bat shaving and the affects it has on high school baseball. Would like to know your thoughts on the topic.
Is it getting out of control or not a issue in your area?
There will always be someone out there who is going to try and cheat....
With composites, it was bat rolling...
With Aluminum, its bat shaving.....
With wood its corking....
I am concerned that with the move to BBCOR that bat shaving will become more of a concern. It is difficult to detect.
Shaving involves removing the end cap and shaving down the inside wall to thin it down and increase the trampoline effect....
I'd rather have my boys learn a proper swing and hit the ball the right way.
Thanks for bringing this up, because I had never heard of this. I did a search on YouTube and was absolutely stunned to see what this is all about. Unbelievable.
You can buy any BBCOR bat known to man on the internet, have it rolled, shaved and shipped to you for around $500. OR if you own or have access to a CNC lathe you can do it yourself for free. Your average position player will now get the attention his hard work deserves and the statistics that might earn him a college scholarship.
There is virtually no risk of embarrassment or detection because nobody at the high school level is authorized to confiscate and inspect the interior of a BBCOR bat. And even if they were authorized, nobody at the high school level has the time, expertise or confidence to remove an endcap for an inspection without damaging a $500 bat. In addition, what level of probable cause would have to exist to confiscate a bat? Not even the death of a player is enough now.
The NCAA found out it had a problem with juiced bats in college baseball. There is no reason to assume that high school baseball is immune to the same situation. We should rigorously pursue cheaters and promote sportsmanship. A corked wood bat is a relatively benign modification compared to the advantages of a rolled and shaved BBCOR. One answer is the voluntary return to the wood bat. Or we could train a bunch of bat police to conduct investigations or we could just do nothing.....again.
There is virtually no risk of embarrassment or detection because nobody at the high school level is authorized to confiscate and inspect the interior of a BBCOR bat. And even if they were authorized, nobody at the high school level has the time, expertise or confidence to remove an endcap for an inspection without damaging a $500 bat. In addition, what level of probable cause would have to exist to confiscate a bat? Not even the death of a player is enough now.
The NCAA found out it had a problem with juiced bats in college baseball. There is no reason to assume that high school baseball is immune to the same situation. We should rigorously pursue cheaters and promote sportsmanship. A corked wood bat is a relatively benign modification compared to the advantages of a rolled and shaved BBCOR. One answer is the voluntary return to the wood bat. Or we could train a bunch of bat police to conduct investigations or we could just do nothing.....again.
quote:Originally posted by PA Dino:
And even if they were authorized, nobody at the high school level has the time, expertise or confidence to remove an endcap for an inspection without damaging a $500 bat.
I remember a few times from my (black and white) Little League days when the coach with all the bats in his trunk couldn't make it to the game. His team had to use the other team's bats. It was no big deal, because each team was issued the same bats.
Maybe, we should go back in time. The whole district, or state, uses identical 'game bats'. The umpires would keep the 'game bats' in their trunks. Use whatever you want for practice, but you're using these bats in the game.
Yeah, I know, that would interfere with personal freedom and put yet another burden on the umpires. I'm sure the bat makers would have something to say about it, too. So, I guess, we'll always have the honor system and we'll always have some who try to beat it.
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That last post was very musty. Who ya' gonna' call? MUSTBUSTERS!
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That last post was very musty. Who ya' gonna' call? MUSTBUSTERS!
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The odds are you have shaved bats on your team. Without doubt you play against shaved bats and the issue is growing every week as HS moves towards BBCOR.
The reason I asked the question was to see what the members of this board thought of the concern of bat shaving. To see if it they are aware of the issue and understand how much this concern is spreading.
If you would like to learn more about this issue or have any questions or comments about it please feel free to contact me. I would like to hear your thoughts and concerns.
Bill Gateley
sportsaz@msn.com
480.241.3717
The reason I asked the question was to see what the members of this board thought of the concern of bat shaving. To see if it they are aware of the issue and understand how much this concern is spreading.
If you would like to learn more about this issue or have any questions or comments about it please feel free to contact me. I would like to hear your thoughts and concerns.
Bill Gateley
sportsaz@msn.com
480.241.3717
How would you know if someone is using a shaved bat? Will it have a different sound?
I'm just not sure how anyone would know if they were dealing with it or not.
I'm just not sure how anyone would know if they were dealing with it or not.
quote:Originally posted by sportsaz:
The odds are you have shaved bats on your team. Without doubt you play against shaved bats....
That's a bold statement. This is a pretty complex procedure from what I've seen so far. I can't see how rampant it could really be at this point.
quote:Originally posted by sportsaz:
If you would like to learn more about this issue or have any questions or comments about it please feel free to contact me.
OH WAIT!!!! I just got it. Do you want to talk to people about this? Or do you want to offer your bat shaving services?
Let's go back to the goofy pictures. That was more worthwhile.
With certain alloy bats the ping sound is of a higher pitch. However this is not always the case and the ping can be affected by weather or the ball (bp ball or new)
Not able to spot a shaved bat is one of the reasons it has become so popular. There are some ideas on the table to detect shaved bats yet one that will work in a complex system of models is the key.
Not able to spot a shaved bat is one of the reasons it has become so popular. There are some ideas on the table to detect shaved bats yet one that will work in a complex system of models is the key.
If I was in the bat shaving business I would be driving a Caddy and not a Chev
Actually I am part of the team finding a cure for the problem.
Yes my statement was bold, yet sadly true.
Actually I am part of the team finding a cure for the problem.
Yes my statement was bold, yet sadly true.
Sportsaz- NDT testing equipment is readily avaliable to test the thickness of material such as a baseball bat Aluminum or composite, same machine. I use a instrument such as this often in the aviation business. It a simple test and will indicate a modified/blessed/special bat very quickly. Using a known non juiced bat or manufactures specs its readily apparent when a bat is modified. The statistics used to demonstrate that bat modifying is not in HSAA/NCAA is flawed. It is not by happenstance that balls start flying out and over the scoreboard late in critical games. Just look at the last weeks Super regionals. The "special/blessed" bats are not used except when needed is very apparent. When it is stated that NCAA uses "registered bats" that doesn't mean squat.Every kid using a BBCOR bat is using a "registered bat. Until the bats are NDT ie Non Destructive Tested before Jimmy D1 superstar hits the dugout to grab a G2 Gatorade and slip back on the Oakley custom shades and wipe his brow with a New Era towel and grab his Easton Custom Glove by way of xray or ultrasonic the blessing will continue. Cheating has been going on in most sports since the first contests. To believe otherwise is very flawed judgement.
The system that is in the works to prevent tampered bats from the field is called Batchx. If you want more information just email my office.
sportsaz@msn.com
Bill
sportsaz@msn.com
Bill
Couldn't you just weigh the bats to see if they had been shaved? (I don't know the answer to this...or if this would be possible.)
It seems manufacturers would have a tolerance level for their bat weights ...meaning - 3 ozs would be something like - 2.95 ozs to - 3.05 ozs ....anything outside that range would not be considered legal.
However, I guess people could tape their bats or do something like that to make up the weight lost in shaving....but if a bat was suspected of being shaved...it is a lot easier to strip off all the extra tape, etc. and weigh it than take it apart and examine it from the inside.
It seems manufacturers would have a tolerance level for their bat weights ...meaning - 3 ozs would be something like - 2.95 ozs to - 3.05 ozs ....anything outside that range would not be considered legal.
However, I guess people could tape their bats or do something like that to make up the weight lost in shaving....but if a bat was suspected of being shaved...it is a lot easier to strip off all the extra tape, etc. and weigh it than take it apart and examine it from the inside.
The new system is instant and will prevent any bat that has been tamped with from entering the game. Not only will the system tell if the bat has been tampered with, it will match the model number to current approved bat list, all in the wink of an eye.
Is 'the system' free?
To accomplish bat shaving the endcap must be removed. The bat manufacturers are in the process of making tamper resistant caps . It has been a problem in California.
That way in two years we will have to buy BBCOR slash TP (tamper proof) ....
sportsaz,
I don’t dispute what you’re saying, but having watched a full season of “partial” BBCOR in Ca this past season, anyone who spent their money to get some kind of huge advantage, wasted it IMO.
Perhaps in Az ya’ll are used to seeing lotsa cheaters, but here, there’s probably only 2 or 3 players on most teams who would get much advantage. This is only a guess, but I’m thinking you’ll see lots of cheating bats during tournaments, summer leagues, and showcases, compared to what you’ll see during the regular HS season. In fact, I really think its much more likely a player will cheat on PEDs than shaving bats.
I don’t dispute what you’re saying, but having watched a full season of “partial” BBCOR in Ca this past season, anyone who spent their money to get some kind of huge advantage, wasted it IMO.
Perhaps in Az ya’ll are used to seeing lotsa cheaters, but here, there’s probably only 2 or 3 players on most teams who would get much advantage. This is only a guess, but I’m thinking you’ll see lots of cheating bats during tournaments, summer leagues, and showcases, compared to what you’ll see during the regular HS season. In fact, I really think its much more likely a player will cheat on PEDs than shaving bats.
quote:Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
That way in two years we will have to buy BBCOR slash TP (tamper proof) ....
Skip,
Don't know if you were joking or not but that is actually exactly what was planned for next year... a BBCOR stamp and a tamper-proof mark of some sort. I haven't heard much lately, but there was consumer concern that the BBCOR bats just purchased would be no good once the tamper-proof labeled bats hit the shelves.
Well, I was joking but now I don't know whether to laugh or hit my thumb with a fungo!
Please pass the wood.
Please pass the wood.
quote:Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
Well, I was joking but now I don't know whether to laugh or hit my thumb with a fungo!
Please pass the wood.
Would you like more detail or just start wacking away at the thumb now?
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...91034941/m/547101905
quote:Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
Well, I was joking but now I don't know whether to laugh or hit my thumb with a fungo!
Please pass the wood.
Yep. Try shaving a wood bat.
Maybe if the Cubs had shaved that goat, they would have won a World Series in the last Century!
The weight of a bat can be altered by regripping the bat. There's nothing illegal about changing the grip. This might be new information to some. The drop weight of the bat is determined before the grip is included. Therefore bats aren't really -3. They're -2.xx.quote:Originally posted by Buzzard05:
Couldn't you just weigh the bats to see if they had been shaved? (I don't know the answer to this...or if this would be possible.)
It seems manufacturers would have a tolerance level for their bat weights ...meaning - 3 ozs would be something like - 2.95 ozs to - 3.05 ozs ....anything outside that range would not be considered legal.
However, I guess people could tape their bats or do something like that to make up the weight lost in shaving....but if a bat was suspected of being shaved...it is a lot easier to strip off all the extra tape, etc. and weigh it than take it apart and examine it from the inside.
I forsee BBCOR bats looking like this after a few years of being recertified.
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That's right just like NASCAR! Bring back WOOD!
[URL=
] [/URL]That's right just like NASCAR! Bring back WOOD!
Originally Posted by RJM:
The weight of a bat can be altered by regripping the bat. There's nothing illegal about changing the grip. This might be new information to some. The drop weight of the bat is determined before the grip is included. Therefore bats aren't really -3. They're -2.xx.quote:Originally posted by Buzzard05:
Couldn't you just weigh the bats to see if they had been shaved? (I don't know the answer to this...or if this would be possible.)
It seems manufacturers would have a tolerance level for their bat weights ...meaning - 3 ozs would be something like - 2.95 ozs to - 3.05 ozs ....anything outside that range would not be considered legal.
However, I guess people could tape their bats or do something like that to make up the weight lost in shaving....but if a bat was suspected of being shaved...it is a lot easier to strip off all the extra tape, etc. and weigh it than take it apart and examine it from the inside.
Weighing bats could be an option but you have to know the weights of every bat; for instance Easton are normally heavy and Demarinis are spot on. Other factors, as suggested, would shoot a jhole in this approach. The USSSA and ASA have come out with a compression tester for there youth, fast pitch and slow pitch bats. This will flex the bat and give a reading as to if it is within standards or not. Bbor bats could be tested the same way. I have found if you know what you are up against it makes combating it a lot easier. Here is Bat Shaving info on the topic from the horses mouth!