Bat sizes/weights, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by nyexpat:
After reading how in the "long run" it might be better for him to use a heavier bat (why, really as I'm pretty sure he won't be going pro. ha! ;-) )
would it be horrible for him to use his bat if he hits like crazy with it?
And, if the actual coach decides it would be better, will it totally f up his hitting.
My mind is why fix something that's not broken?

Hi and welcome,
I'm going to bounce around a bit. First, no, it wouldn't be horrible if he uses his current bat that he likes for one more season.
That being said, be aware that using a heavier bat has nothing to do with "going pro". The benchmark you need to be concerned with is that HS regulations, including freshman and JV ball, require use of a -3 (or heavier). If he is playing travel ball, I assume there is a high likelihood he will eventually want to play HS ball. It is definitely a good idea to start transitioning from the really light and narrow LL bats to something a bit heavier and wider sooner rather than later.

IMO, the most important thing is to avoid the thought process that he is hitting really well because of the bat. Focus on the skill development and really de-emphasize any notion that good results are largely equipment driven. He should grow to be confident that he can hit well with any stick. It's the indian, not the arrow.

Some other things to consider...

A really light bat (and -13 is as light as they come) means less mass to hit the ball hard, particularly as he starts moving up against harder throwers.

A wider barrel means less swing-and-miss when timing is good but bat plane is just off.

Hitters go through streaks regardless of how good the bat is. The bat he loves today is the bat he'll hate tomorrow.

When he starts playing travel, he will see most of the other players using the big barrels and will eventually want to do the same.

Best wishes and have fun.

Thanks for posting such a great response.
My son will most likely want to tryout for his HS team when he gets that age, so what you posted is good information to know.
(I was a bad news bears girl player so the last time I really knew much about what was going on was when everyone basically used wooden bats. ha!)
I just assumed a lighter bat would help with bat speed for faster pitches, which is kinda seemed to do for him when he borrowed his teammate's bat (the bat in question) in the Spring (he hit the ball out twice with it which no other kid in the entire tournament did).
Glad that I found this site to post.
(I was kinda p.o'd at his old coach for interfering at the 11th hour when my son came up to bat, and wanted to get "unsolicited" opinions.) ;-)

Thanks NY,
You're not really wrong about lighter bat/bat speed. Bat speed vs. bat mass is one of those classic age-old arguments. But the issue is somewhat forced with the HS -3 regs.

Also, I totally get it with the "11th hour" scenario. It had to be tough - first day with a new team and having this thrown at him. Sounds like the coach had the right intentions and good reasoning behind his instruction but maybe not the best timing.
I do think this brings up another great opportunity, though...

As your son grows, how will he deal with coaches? Will he give proper respect and appreciation, be positive and coachable, learn to communicate well with this type of elder/"boss"? Or will he be inclined to criticize, talk behind his back, focus on the negatives, use the coach as an excuse rather than a great resource, etc.? How do we, as parents, affect or facilitate this learning process?
I know that I have had to learn (sometimes, the hard way) to really consider the affect on my kids before I respond to an action of a coach that I may question. Take some time to observe other parents at the games and watch how their kids react to their reactions and statements about coaches (and officials, other players, other parents,etc., for that matter).
What messages are we sending? What message do we want to send?

Also, how will he respond when the next unexpected challenge gets thrown his way? And there will be many in baseball. And how does our reaction to the current challenge help or otherwise prepare him for the next?

Sorry, I get a little carried away with the "life lessons from sports" thing. More importantly, as others stated in the general items post, just make sure he is enjoying playing the game.

Oddly enough, my son is actually quite mature for his age in this regard, i.e. taking, listening, respecting what his coach tells him to do. He's a TOTAL team player and always has been. He never whined about letting him pitch, what position he was asked to play, etc. (They needed him at 3rd, he played third. Want me at 1st, sure.) Am very proud of him for that.
My husband and I also never "coach" from the sidelines or interfere with the game, calls, etc. Not our style.
Which is why, although I was kinda miffed, I went to "rant" here. ;-)
Thanks for "talking me down"! ;-0

Also, forgot to ask. What's the deal with the -3 in HS? Is it b/c that's when testosterone sets in and they don't want guys knocking each others' lights out? (seriously. i don't know.)

NY,
Yeah, the last half of my last post was thrown out there just in case you were expressing your frustrations to your son, as I have mistakenly done so in the past. Glad to hear that isn't the case. He sounds like a great kid. You should be very proud.
The -3 regs apply to college and HS. They were put in place for safety reasons to offset the advancing technologies that were jacking up bat performance to dangerous levels. This goes back to that "bat speed vs. bat mass" topic. The thinking (back in around 2000) was that a big strong player swinging a lighter high-tech bat would create a dangerous situation for fielders. Part of the thought process was that regulating for heavier bats would result in performance resembling the old wood bats.
This makes it particularly tough for the young HS players who typically have to swing a bat that is too heavy or too short or both. That's why many suggest starting the transition now to a heavier bat.

Ugh. Anyone want to purchase a basically unused -13? ha!
Signing off.

Personally, at 11 who really cares. Let him swing his -13 or whatever bat for that year. As long as it is legal for play let him use it. Just make sure that he is learning to swing and hit properly with that bat.

Next year, at 12, I would look to start transitioning him to the heavier bats. There are -8 and -9 drop big barrel bats that perform nicely and if you look you can find them used all the time, with little wear. From 12-13 he can work with a -8/9 and even progress to a -5 drop bat that is still ok for Babe Ruth/Pony play but closer to a real regulation bat.

I'd also have him start swinging a wood bad at the age of 12, especially in the cage. Wood bats are cheap and a lot of 14 and 13U teams like to play in wood bat tourneys so experience with them is a nice start and will help transition to the HS bats. My son has swung wood almost exclusively in the last two offseasons and is now hitting it as well as his 300 dollar Demarini Voodoo BBCOR -3 drop bat. He started at 12 and is extremely comfortable with the bats. He is now 14.

Hi. Thanks. I agree, which was why I was kinda put off by the interference. (why I came here to get others' opinions)
Your points about transitioning make sense, especially when his testosterone kicks in.
He's still a "kid" at this point! ;-)
He actually wanted to use a wooden bat three years ago when another kid had one. (Of course, as kids they always want what others have. ha!)
It was way too heavy for him at that point, obviously. I have to see what it is as I think it was my husband's when he was a kid, so ancient. ;-)
Who knew CHILDREN'S baseball was so complicated? ;-)

quote:

Originally posted by nyexpat:
My 11-year-old son played in his little league allstar tournament last year and borrowed a kid's bat that he loved. He hit like crazy with it, so I got it for him for Xmas.
It was/is an Easton Surge -13 31in.

The LL coach came up to me after practice and said that my son should be using a big barrel and not a light bat

Based on your description of the Easton Surge -13, I assume it is a 2-1/4" diameter bat and the coach has an issue with that? I am assuming this based on his comments of needing a "big barrel", which are typically considered 2-5/8" or 2-3/4" diameters. No issue for now using a 2-1/4" diameter bat, although some travel leagues mandate 2-5/8".

FYI….Ultimately, he will swing a 2-5/8" diameter bat in high school that will be -3 as others have described. Obviously the 2-5/8" barrel gives greater surface area at any one point on the barrel for ball contact versus 2-1/4". For future bat transition, you can have a light bat (e.g., -10) with a 2-5/8" barrel diameter.

I’ll echo others advise: Let your son swing what he feels most comfortable with. At 11, if his -13 gives him confidence in the batters-box, go with it.

At 10U, my son was playing Little League. A couple Coaches/Dads got together to form a team to play a few tournaments over the summer. The tournaments rule-sets allowed big-barrel bats. Naturally, one Dad went out and bought a big-barrel bat before the first game. The Coach then instructed all the kids to use the new bat: Train Wreck. All the boys unwound 4 months of practice in one round through the batting order. By the second game, all the boys had switched back to their pencil thin Little League bats. I won’t tell you they all raked like Albert Pojuls, but at least they played up to or within their skill level.

Things change so fast in the age-group you’re talking about. Six weeks go by and you can have an entirely different kid. In 4 or 5 years (50% of his lifetime) he will need to swinging a -3, no need to rush anything.

quote:

Originally posted by CABBallFan:
In 4 or 5 years (50% of his lifetime) he will need to swinging a -3, no need to rush anything.

Cabballfan,
Mostly agree with everything you said but...

Depending on how we interpret OP's first sentence, her son may now be 11 or 12. My son was a young 14 when he started HS JV ball. So, that window could be as short as two years?
In any case, I think OP now has the timeline and info she needs and can figure it out from here. They do change a bunch during those years, don't they?

They really do change so fast. And fair point on the OP’s son's age.

Thanks for all your input, all of which makes sense.
These kids DO change quickly.
My son, who turned 11 in August, played football this fall on a 12 year old team and the differences in sizes were pretty funny/apparent. (why they implement that "red dot" on some boys' helmets as they'd pretty much kill some of the smaller boys -- some of which were smaller than my 7-year-old daughter. no joke!) ;-)
They had "boys" who were basically now men, playing against the ones noted above.
Not looking forward to puberty. ha! That'll be my husband's department. ;-)

NY,

Bottom line, the goal is -3 by High School (or 14 YO).

I see many 12/13 year olds swinging -8's and -10's and it works fine for their 13U teams/tournaments, but when they play in the 14U bracket these kids are required to use the high school approved -3 BBCOR bats... it is not pretty. FWIW, I purchased a -8 and -3 at the same time (7th grade). The -8 was for middle school games/practice, etc. and the -3 was for the batting cage on the weekends, screwing around, etc. It worked well. Jr was able to work up to the -3 on his own time away from the field... over the course of a year.

Here's a breakdown of what my son used and at what age...

At League-Age 11 Fall...

For Travel-ball, he used a TPX Dynasty (Model SL206 - 2 3/4" barrel -9, 30/21) and a a Easton Stealth CNT (Model BCN14 - 2 5/8" barrel -9, 30/21)...

For League-Ball (Cal Ripken), he used an Easton Stealth CNT (Model LCN7 - 2 1/4" barrel -9, 30/21)...

At League-Age 11 Spring... (No League-Ball, only Travel)

He used a Rawlings Plasma Gold (Model SLLMPG8 - 2 3/4" barrel -8, 30/22)

At League-Age 12 Fall...

He used a Rawlings Plasma Gold (Model SLLMPG8 - 2 3/4" barrel -8, 31/23)

At League-Age 12 Spring...

- Rawlings Gold Plasma (-5, 31-inch/26-ounce)...
- Easton Rival (-5, 31-inch/26-ounce)...

At League-Age 13 Fall...

- Easton V-12 BESR (-3, 31-inch/28-ounce)...

At League-Age 13 Spring...

- Easton V-12 BESR (-3, 31-inch/28-ounce)...

At League-Age 14 Fall...

- Rawlings Plasma BBCOR (-3, 33-inch/30-ounce)...

At League-Age 14 Spring...

- Rawlings Plasma BBCOR (-3, 33-inch/30-ounce)...


Also, he's used a wood bat to practice since at least age 7 or 8 that was the same length as the alloy or composite bat he was using at the time... all of those were -3 drop...

Good luck...

Bolts-Coach-PR,
looks like you had it mapped out pretty well. We did about the same thing (relatively speaking) as soon as we were told about the -3 HS rule. Started swinging a woodie in the cage last fall.

Thanks, guys, for all the great/specific info!
Makes sense.

I often see some of the bigger players from 12u to 13u swinging lite bats. I am talking kids that are 5'10 150lbs plus. Sure by swinging the smaller bats they do create more bat speed. However they are doing themselves an injustice.

I can speak to this from experience. My son is 12 years old 5'5 106lbs will be 13 late spring but has been swinging a drop 3 bat for almost 2 years now. As of this fall he started swinging a 32/29 Easton S2 BBCOR and had very good success with it.

When he first picked up a drop 3 there was a big transition period controling the extra weight and bat head. There was constant work refining his swing mechanics because of the heavier baseball bat. As time went on this work paid off.

My point is and or opinion is as soon as a player is able to pick up a drop 3 bat, get them to. I have seen some of the bigger kids who are very good hitters using lite bats now having to use drop 3 bats struggling to make the adjustments with the heavier bats. There will be a transtition period, so why not make it sooner than later.

quote:

Originally posted by bballdad2016:
NY,

Bottom line, the goal is -3 by High School (or 14 YO).

I see many 12/13 year olds swinging -8's and -10's and it works fine for their 13U teams/tournaments, but when they play in the 14U bracket these kids are required to use the high school approved -3 BBCOR bats... it is not pretty. FWIW, I purchased a -8 and -3 at the same time (7th grade). The -8 was for middle school games/practice, etc. and the -3 was for the batting cage on the weekends, screwing around, etc. It worked well. Jr was able to work up to the -3 on his own time away from the field... over the course of a year.

If he’s 11 y/o, sounds like he played LL last year, made All Stars, then got ‘recruited’ by a coach who put a group of kids together to form a “Travel” team. If this is the case, the coach is just letting you know you can use a “Big barrel” bat.

Go here:

www.justbats.com

Look for a -10 or -8 bat. (that just means if the length of the bat is 30” then the weight is 20oz – for a -10 bat – that’s referred to as a ‘drop 10’. It would be 30” and 22oz for the ‘drop 8’)

Personally I would get him a -10 he could use right now in travel. Keep the Little league bat you bought, he’ll need it if he plans on playing Little League this year.

I would also look at a -8 bat (think cheap here) that he can use in batting practice. This will help him get used to a heavier bat. Ideally (and to simplify) you want your kid to swing the heaviest bat he can swing, and not lose swing speed. As in not struggling to get the bat through the zone.

If you have Middle School baseball in 7th/8th grade they are likely to use -3 bats as well. I’d get him a drop 5 (doesn’t have to be super expensive – find a model he likes from swinging it and scour Ebay. Lots of deals to be found). If no Middle School ball, then he’d likely be eligible to try out for HS baseball in 8th grade, then he’d definitely need a ‘drop 3’.

Kids adapt easily. Just got the local park or local indoor cage and toss him balls for Batting Practice, he’ll get used to that heavier bat in no time.

Every kid is different and physical size is not the only indicator of bat size.

Example from my kid who is now 15:

From about 8-11 he used a -9 or -8 in “travel ball” (remember ‘big barrel’) - Little League most bats were ‘drop 10 to drop 13’.

Right about 12 he started using a drop 5 in travel ball. We went to drop 10 in LL All Stars. He started using a drop 3 wood bat in BP right before he turned 12. He still uses wood now.
It’s not as complicated as it sounds. He’ll be fine. I have seen kids struggle who used really light bats (-13 in LL and drop -10 or lighter in ‘Travel Ball’) and then had to straight to drop 3 bats when HS ball (or Middle School ball) started. But most of these kids adjusted as well.

Good Luck!

Thanks.
Yes. That was the situation.

Everything you said sounds good/correct.

Thanks for your help!

He's already played and done well with his current bat, but will definitely start transitioning.

I agree with CabbollFan too.Intially i was worried about what would be good for my son in long run.But now I let my 12 year old choose what he is most comfortable with.
La Jolla schools

I saw something I had never seen before the other day. 13U premier tourney, the team we played had one or two heavier practice bats for on deck, and one game bat. Everyone used the same game bat the entire game. Kids body sizes and abilities were all over the map, from very physically mature to smaller kids who hadn't "peaked" yet. They hit well pretty much top to bottom. It was actually kind of a thing of beauty, no one throwing bats back to the dugout, nobody wishing they had this or that bat. Each kid just walked out to the plate and picked up the bat his teammate just hit with. Living proof that it's the Indian and not the arrow.

I didn't think to ask the the length or drop of the bat, or if it was corked. :-) I did ask one of the parents what the deal was. He said one of the kids hits a homer with it and they all started using it form that point on. I doubt I'll ever see this again, but I won't forget it. Go out there, pick up a stick and hit the ball!!

My son swung a 29-19 as 7 & 8's, then moved to 31-22 as 9 & 10, then 32-22 and 32-27 as 11 and 12. He started swinging 32-29 XL3 toward the end of the spring against slower pitchers as a 12. He just turned 13 and also swings 33-31 (estimated weight) model 243 pro ash. He is now 5'8" 140. He's projected to reach 6'4" at about 220 lbs.