trying to find out how important the actual bat speed is during the recruiting process and what is good bat speed for a high school player? thanks for any help.
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If you have a bat speed of 90mph+ as a high schooler it will most certainly turn heads!
Scouts will pick up on it instantly!
Scouts will pick up on it instantly!
is low 80's too slow with wood?
When my son was a high school junior, his bat speed was measured at 82 at a D1 camp. The school ended up recruiting him and making him an offer.
Now that he is a freshman in college, bat speed is measured fairly regularly. Most players on his team (college freshmen through seniors) measure in the mid 80's to mid 90's, but their HR leader's bat speed is 104 mph, I believe.
Now that he is a freshman in college, bat speed is measured fairly regularly. Most players on his team (college freshmen through seniors) measure in the mid 80's to mid 90's, but their HR leader's bat speed is 104 mph, I believe.
we aren't in too bad of shape then. he is at 81 and is a 2010. kind of small at 5'11 155# and looking mostly at juco's. thanks for the help.
What precisely is being measured when they measure bat speed? The end of the bat is going to move the fastest. Does a radar gun automatically measure whatever object is moving the fastest? what if part of the object is moving more slowly than another part (as will always be the case in a circular motion.)
So does the radar automatically pick up the part of the bat that is moving the fastest?
So does the radar automatically pick up the part of the bat that is moving the fastest?
I think you all are confusing bat(swing) speed with batted ball speed.
Bat speed is important, but not near as important as batted ball speed.
Albert Pujols bat speed is around 85 mph, which is relatively low for a power hitter, but his batted ball speed can be 120 mph+
Josh Hamilton's bat speed has been measured at over 100 mph.
The average major leaguer's batted ball speed is 108 mph.
Hitting the ball on the bat's sweet spot and on the right swing plane is what creates increased batted ball speed.
Bat speed is important, but not near as important as batted ball speed.
Albert Pujols bat speed is around 85 mph, which is relatively low for a power hitter, but his batted ball speed can be 120 mph+
Josh Hamilton's bat speed has been measured at over 100 mph.
The average major leaguer's batted ball speed is 108 mph.
Hitting the ball on the bat's sweet spot and on the right swing plane is what creates increased batted ball speed.
never thought about getting that gitnby. will get that next week. all that was measured was the bat comming through the zone so my guess would be the sweet spot.
I'm certainly no expert on this subject, but here's what I have learned:
Bat (swing speed)can be achieved or improved with specific muscle development(strength)and/or lighter bat.(maybe aluminum)
Batted ball speed will also be improved by increased swing speed, but is dramatically improved by the angle and the spot on the bat that the ball hits.(aluminum has the advantage on this one)
Great example:
When Kirk Gibson one-handed the HR in the World Series, his bat speed was probably pretty low, but he hit it square!
Bat (swing speed)can be achieved or improved with specific muscle development(strength)and/or lighter bat.(maybe aluminum)
Batted ball speed will also be improved by increased swing speed, but is dramatically improved by the angle and the spot on the bat that the ball hits.(aluminum has the advantage on this one)
Great example:
When Kirk Gibson one-handed the HR in the World Series, his bat speed was probably pretty low, but he hit it square!
Gitnby-
Agree with your comment about bat speed vs. batted ball speed.
Question for you.....where did you get your information? I would be interested in looking at more in-depth/similar info on other players.
Can you direct me to a website?
Thanks!
Agree with your comment about bat speed vs. batted ball speed.
Question for you.....where did you get your information? I would be interested in looking at more in-depth/similar info on other players.
Can you direct me to a website?
Thanks!
Infield08-
My son goes to a lower level D1 and is a freshman. I will double check and ask him if they measure bat speed.
But I do have a follow up question for you/your son. How does his school specifically measure bat speed?
My son goes to a lower level D1 and is a freshman. I will double check and ask him if they measure bat speed.
But I do have a follow up question for you/your son. How does his school specifically measure bat speed?
jbbaseball, I'll check with my son and get back to you.
Bat speed can be measured by a radar gun.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Bat speed can be measured by a radar gun.
I sometimes see readings on scouts' Stalkers of 112mph, I wonder if it was the ball speed off the pitcher's hand, ball speed just before being hit, bat speed, or the speed of the ball off the bat. How does one know
Let me start by saying I am not a physicist or engineer. But I do have academic training in basic sciences and physics.
While I agree with BobbleheadDoll that bat speed can be measured by a radar gun, I would put forth that type of measurement is neither dependable or consistent. The radar waves can not pick one point of the bat to consistently read the speed. Because a bat is swung in an arc, the speed of the bat differs along the length of the bat.
I would expect some type of laser device that can pinpoint a spot would be a much more reliable measuring tool.
That was part of the reason why I asked about how colleges (particular colleges) were measuring bat speed.
Also, one other comment about bat speed vs batted ball speed.
Bat speed can be completely controlled by the batter. Whereas there are other factors/variables that affect batted ball speed outside the control of the batter. Namely the velocity of the ball as it is being piched and the type of pitch (both controlled by the pitcher).
While I agree with BobbleheadDoll that bat speed can be measured by a radar gun, I would put forth that type of measurement is neither dependable or consistent. The radar waves can not pick one point of the bat to consistently read the speed. Because a bat is swung in an arc, the speed of the bat differs along the length of the bat.
I would expect some type of laser device that can pinpoint a spot would be a much more reliable measuring tool.
That was part of the reason why I asked about how colleges (particular colleges) were measuring bat speed.
Also, one other comment about bat speed vs batted ball speed.
Bat speed can be completely controlled by the batter. Whereas there are other factors/variables that affect batted ball speed outside the control of the batter. Namely the velocity of the ball as it is being piched and the type of pitch (both controlled by the pitcher).
Radar guns pick up the fasted speed generated just like a baseball velocity. They are usually accrate with 1 +- mph. So anything that is in their motion range is calculated and the max velo is displayed. It is not aimed at a point in the bat motion. You can aim it off to the side and still get a good reading depending on the gun.
quote:Originally posted by jbbaseball:
Gitnby-
Agree with your comment about bat speed vs. batted ball speed.
Question for you.....where did you get your information? I would be interested in looking at more in-depth/similar info on other players.
Can you direct me to a website?
Thanks!
just GOOGLE "bat speed major leagues", bunch of ads mostly, but you will find the info you are looking for.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Radar guns pick up the fasted speed generated just like a baseball velocity. They are usually accrate with 1 +- mph. So anything that is in their motion range is calculated and the max velo is displayed. It is not aimed at a point in the bat motion. You can aim it off to the side and still get a good reading depending on the gun.
While that may be true for a golf swing,I've been told that it is not that reliable for a baseball swing. One reason is that it is harder for a player to properly load and react at maximum level when there is not a moving ball to hit. Most players have a better swing when they focus on a ball versus just taking a swing at air.
A golf ball is ALWAYS at rest when you swing.(sometimes it still is AFTER I swing!)
I'm still learning about all this, and it is very interesting!
But, again, bat speed is irrelevant if you don't hit it on the right swing plane or on the good part of the bat.
Apparently, Pujols' keeps the bat in the correct plane longer than most other players,even though his bat speed is relatively low, which would explain his extraordinary opposite field power.
jb is correct; the direction of motion read by doppler needs to be antiparallel (along the same line of sight) to the gun's beam to be accurate.
I know a lot of coaches that are big on measuring batspeed. The way Ive seen them measure is by soft toss or off of a tee, kneeling behing the hitter with the radar gun. It is an important tool to project power. For example, a senior in HS may have stats showing 10 HR's, but if his batspeed is 78mph, he probably doesnt project to hit for much power. If you are in the low 80's in high school, you are OK. I have some video I shot at a DII a few months ago if you want to see it. Most of the freshman were in the 80's, they had some power hitters swinging it in the high 90's.
I went to the golf simulator the other day and was surprised my clubhead speed is still 108 mph.
By the way, I'm not on the PGA Tour?
By the way, I'm not on the PGA Tour?
My son said they measure bat speed with a radar gun behind him when he is in the batting cage.
By the way, at the end of fall practice, a list was posted in the locker room ranking all of the hitters. One of the players with a very high bat speed was one of the lowest-ranked hitters; the reverse was true for a player with low bat speed. Obviously, bat speed is only one component of hitting ability.
By the way, at the end of fall practice, a list was posted in the locker room ranking all of the hitters. One of the players with a very high bat speed was one of the lowest-ranked hitters; the reverse was true for a player with low bat speed. Obviously, bat speed is only one component of hitting ability.
kind of like the underware olympics. if you look good in shorts and a t-shirt someone will make yuou an off. even if you can't play.
Homerun04,
There are bat speed devices and there is exit speed from a radar gun. In order to actually get accurate exit speeds, that has to be what you are trying to get. Though most often we are getting radar gun readings on pitchers, still we often get readings that show the speed off the bat.
Here is what we have noticed and I think we probably use radar gun readings more than anyone in the country. In fact we have around a hundred Stalker radar guns. Very seldom do we see exit speeds in excess of 100 mph with wood bats. (remember the majority of what we scout are HS age kids) Once in a great while we see over 100 mph and a couple times have seen speeds up to 114 mph off the bat. On the other hand with the metal bats, we see many speeds in excess of 90 and even 100 mph. In fact, I would guess somewhere in the 90s off the bat would be the average for a higher level HS hitter when he squares up on a pitch with metal. We have actually seen speeds over 120 mph a couple times off a metal bat. Never thought about it before, but guess this would be good info for the metal vrs wood debate.
Bat speed is important, but it is not the most important thing. There have been several great hitters who did not create great bat speed. Most important is "contolled" bat speed. To be honest, it is very easy to see with the naked eye. Not necessarily the actual mph, but those who have great bat speed stick out like a sore thumb. You just have to gear in on the bat rather than the hitter. That is because some hitters create plus bat speed with a smooth effortless looking swing. Those are the special ones! ie. Upton!
There are bat speed devices and there is exit speed from a radar gun. In order to actually get accurate exit speeds, that has to be what you are trying to get. Though most often we are getting radar gun readings on pitchers, still we often get readings that show the speed off the bat.
Here is what we have noticed and I think we probably use radar gun readings more than anyone in the country. In fact we have around a hundred Stalker radar guns. Very seldom do we see exit speeds in excess of 100 mph with wood bats. (remember the majority of what we scout are HS age kids) Once in a great while we see over 100 mph and a couple times have seen speeds up to 114 mph off the bat. On the other hand with the metal bats, we see many speeds in excess of 90 and even 100 mph. In fact, I would guess somewhere in the 90s off the bat would be the average for a higher level HS hitter when he squares up on a pitch with metal. We have actually seen speeds over 120 mph a couple times off a metal bat. Never thought about it before, but guess this would be good info for the metal vrs wood debate.
Bat speed is important, but it is not the most important thing. There have been several great hitters who did not create great bat speed. Most important is "contolled" bat speed. To be honest, it is very easy to see with the naked eye. Not necessarily the actual mph, but those who have great bat speed stick out like a sore thumb. You just have to gear in on the bat rather than the hitter. That is because some hitters create plus bat speed with a smooth effortless looking swing. Those are the special ones! ie. Upton!
Something else that always draws my attention, sound. Listen to the sound of the bat hitting the ball. With wood bats at least, you really don't need a radar gun or anything else to tell you who is generating bat speed and squaring the ball up. The difference is pretty obvious.
OK2Go,
Very good point. Often at complexes with more than one field you will see scouts at one field quickly spinning their heads towards the other field. That loud crack of the bat is music to the ears of a scout. Every so often that sound is so much different than the ordinary and when that happens it creates serious interest.
Very good point. Often at complexes with more than one field you will see scouts at one field quickly spinning their heads towards the other field. That loud crack of the bat is music to the ears of a scout. Every so often that sound is so much different than the ordinary and when that happens it creates serious interest.
When the Indians drafted Manny Ramirez, the scouts were interviewed by the local Cleveland beat reporters as to why they took this "unknown" kid from NYC. Mickey White was the scout who was most repsonsible for drafting him and he said in part "I had never heard sounds coming from a player's bat as I did his."
Another interesting one I heard was from Joe Klein who drafted Albert Belle. He said he could measure power by how high a player would hit pop-ups.
Another interesting one I heard was from Joe Klein who drafted Albert Belle. He said he could measure power by how high a player would hit pop-ups.
To me bat speed is important but more important is the muscle reaction on contact. I call it smack. That is when the muscles required to drive a ball react in unison at the precise moment to max your power delivered directly to the ball.
I is also true with pitchers. I call that crank. It is the point the required muscles react to max the velo of the pitch.
Prior to this moment the muscles are relaxed and only react at the proper moment. In hitting is is on contact. When the bat makes contact your brain tells the muscles to respond and that response determines power. Also hitting off the sweet spot is important.
I is also true with pitchers. I call that crank. It is the point the required muscles react to max the velo of the pitch.
Prior to this moment the muscles are relaxed and only react at the proper moment. In hitting is is on contact. When the bat makes contact your brain tells the muscles to respond and that response determines power. Also hitting off the sweet spot is important.
twitch
Hang time isn't just for punters. Starting the stopwatch at contact can produce a lot of good information other than just H-1 times.
We saw a kid named Jimmy Negrych when he was in high school. He did nothing except hit pop ups during the BP we watched. This caused him to go somewhat unnoticed because there were so many other talented kids at that event. We graded him the top hitting prospect at that event. He wasn't drafted and went to Pitt where he set all kinds of records. Now he is in pro ball (Pirates) and last year he hit .370 in high A.
His bat speed and pop ups were very impressive.
We were also scouting an event (not ours) in Phoenix years ago. We graded a kid who did not hit a ball out of the infield during BP as the top hitting prospect at that event. That kid ended up attending Arizona State and then was drafted by the Yankees in 2006, he was in AA last year. Colin Curtis!
There were probably a hitter or two at that event that ended up better, so we were probably wrong about him being the best prospect. However, Curtis did hit over .300 every year for Arizona State and then hit .300 his first two pro seasons. I would bet that he would say that BP in Arizona was the worst he ever had.
Here’s another one that is interesting. Jeff Clement is from Iowa and played in our stuff since he was in 8th grade. We knew he was an outstanding hitting prospect because we had seen him so many times. He attended our predraft and had the worst day of his life… couldn’t hit just like Carl Crawford and Jimmy Negrych didn’t hit at this same event in other years. After that event a bunch of scouts and us go to the local Pub/Pizza place to discuss the players and swap lies. One well known Scouting Director stated he didn’t think Clement would ever hit. Jumping to his defense I said, The question is whether or not he will be able to be a catcher, there’s no problem with his bat, he is going to hit.
Well that terrible showing cost him in the draft, but it turned out to be good for Southern Cal. He went there, became an all American, and was then drafted in the 1st rd by the Mariners (I think the 3rd or 4th overall pick) and signed for something around 3.5 million. He has already appeared in the Big Leagues. He has improved a lot as a catcher, but that still is the biggest question mark. He can hit!
Sorry if I got off track there, it’s just that one thing always reminds me of more things.
My point is that if you watch very closely things like bat speed and the actual swing can be more important than the actual results. Sometimes the statistics or results don’t reveal the truth. Then again, sometimes they do. Sooner or later, if you get far enough, the stats become the most important thing. But if you see a hitter for just one day, the swing is more important than the results. Unless the results are something like a 450’ HR.
Once you've seen enough great hitters, it gets easier to pick up on those who possess what it takes to be a great hitter. Controlled Bat Speed is just one of those things.
We saw a kid named Jimmy Negrych when he was in high school. He did nothing except hit pop ups during the BP we watched. This caused him to go somewhat unnoticed because there were so many other talented kids at that event. We graded him the top hitting prospect at that event. He wasn't drafted and went to Pitt where he set all kinds of records. Now he is in pro ball (Pirates) and last year he hit .370 in high A.
His bat speed and pop ups were very impressive.
We were also scouting an event (not ours) in Phoenix years ago. We graded a kid who did not hit a ball out of the infield during BP as the top hitting prospect at that event. That kid ended up attending Arizona State and then was drafted by the Yankees in 2006, he was in AA last year. Colin Curtis!
There were probably a hitter or two at that event that ended up better, so we were probably wrong about him being the best prospect. However, Curtis did hit over .300 every year for Arizona State and then hit .300 his first two pro seasons. I would bet that he would say that BP in Arizona was the worst he ever had.
Here’s another one that is interesting. Jeff Clement is from Iowa and played in our stuff since he was in 8th grade. We knew he was an outstanding hitting prospect because we had seen him so many times. He attended our predraft and had the worst day of his life… couldn’t hit just like Carl Crawford and Jimmy Negrych didn’t hit at this same event in other years. After that event a bunch of scouts and us go to the local Pub/Pizza place to discuss the players and swap lies. One well known Scouting Director stated he didn’t think Clement would ever hit. Jumping to his defense I said, The question is whether or not he will be able to be a catcher, there’s no problem with his bat, he is going to hit.
Well that terrible showing cost him in the draft, but it turned out to be good for Southern Cal. He went there, became an all American, and was then drafted in the 1st rd by the Mariners (I think the 3rd or 4th overall pick) and signed for something around 3.5 million. He has already appeared in the Big Leagues. He has improved a lot as a catcher, but that still is the biggest question mark. He can hit!
Sorry if I got off track there, it’s just that one thing always reminds me of more things.
My point is that if you watch very closely things like bat speed and the actual swing can be more important than the actual results. Sometimes the statistics or results don’t reveal the truth. Then again, sometimes they do. Sooner or later, if you get far enough, the stats become the most important thing. But if you see a hitter for just one day, the swing is more important than the results. Unless the results are something like a 450’ HR.
Once you've seen enough great hitters, it gets easier to pick up on those who possess what it takes to be a great hitter. Controlled Bat Speed is just one of those things.