How do you develop early bat speed? I have been told that I have late bat speed. Is it a matter of mechanics or training or what? Thanks.
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quote:Originally posted by johnny appleseed:
How do you develop early bat speed? I have been told that I have late bat speed. Is it a matter of mechanics or training or what? Thanks.
You have to use your HANDS to move the bat (the barrel!), not your ARMS. Watch your swing in the mirror. Swing in slow-motion. After your load, your hands need to stay tight to your shoulder. (See Manny below) I'll let you choose a word to describe the direction the barrel is moving in "early". It is hips and hands. (No power from shoulders or arms to contact.) The hips lead the hands... BUT the hands aren't just sitting around waiting for the party to start.
Starting this past summer, I started seeing "the elbows moving independent of the hands" (phrasing I created) when the hips drive. First it was in Pujols, then Manny, then I started seeing it in most MLB clips. MLB players doing something I couldn't explain and from experience in baseball either living with, playing for, or playing with pro players, they couldn't explain/teach it either.
Right click and click "save as" on the following images. Watch them over and over and over.
ran across this recently good breakdown of what hands are doing.
Top Hand Torque
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/1f2SwCoFRgI
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/1f2SwCoFRgI
Top Hand Torque
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/1f2SwCoFRgI
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/1f2SwCoFRgI
quote:Originally posted by showme:
ran across this recently good breakdown of what hands are doing.
Top Hand Torque
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/1f2SwCoFRgI
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/1f2SwCoFRgI
Most high school players have heard of torque but don't know what it really is if they are asked to define it.
From Dictionary.com:
torque [tawrk]
–noun
1. Mechanics. something that produces or tends to produce torsion or rotation; the moment of a force or system of forces tending to cause rotation.
I'll offer two words. Pronation. Supination. Why is he talking about pulling with the shoulders?
Bobby: Interesting stuff I will take a look, however from what I have seen in youth hitters (my son included who is still fighting too much "hands") is that they do not learn to drive with their hips. Nearly every video posted on this website by youth hitters show it. (as well as a lack of stretch and load that has been noted here) The big muscles generate bat speed and the hands need to stay connected to the hips. If you start teaching kids that it is in the hands I think they will develop bad habits. Puljos is a perfect example that plane and connection are more important than pure bat speed. Focus on bat path, load, (stretch) proper sequence, and connection and speed will take care of itself.
quote:Originally posted by BOF:
Bobby: Interesting stuff I will take a look, however from what I have seen in youth hitters (my son included who is still fighting too much "hands") is that they do not learn to drive with their hips. Nearly every video posted on this website by youth hitters show it. (as well as a lack of stretch and load that has been noted here) The big muscles generate bat speed and the hands need to stay connected to the hips. If you start teaching kids that it is in the hands I think they will develop bad habits. Puljos is a perfect example that plane and connection are more important than pure bat speed. Focus on bat path, load, (stretch) proper sequence, and connection and speed will take care of itself.
If they don't have power from the back hip, their body will search for power elsewhere. Usually the arms. This leads to bat drag, late bat speed, pulling the ball with power, no oppo power.
Why wouldn't you teach kids it is hands. Right now people teach arms, not hands. They teach the arms taking the hands to the ball, not taking the hands to the ball. The number of players that I deal with that turn their knee without turning their hip is scary. Stretch.... ahhhh, stretch. Once they feel that, the Manny clip I posted before makes sense and they begin to trust it.
What bad habits do you project from teaching how to use the hands properly?
tewks, what others are telling you is that "hands" is the cue used by thousands of youth dads and coaches everyday and it's the #1 cause of poor swings today (according to the Sultan poll 
)
So, we are sensitive to the word.
Let me ask you this, could you teach your swing without using the word "hands" at all?
) So, we are sensitive to the word.
Let me ask you this, could you teach your swing without using the word "hands" at all?
Yes. I would use the word triangle or unit instead.
I wouldn't want to though.
I wouldn't want to though.
It is a bad cue because they say "hands" and teach "arms". The try to recreate what is done on video without teaches how to use the hands.
In the clip of Pujols above, it sure looks like he's "taking his hands to the ball" or "taking the knob of the bat to the ball." But he isn't... He is taking the barrel to the ball more than he's taking his hands to the ball. =)
In the clip of Pujols above, it sure looks like he's "taking his hands to the ball" or "taking the knob of the bat to the ball." But he isn't... He is taking the barrel to the ball more than he's taking his hands to the ball. =)
quote:Originally posted by BobbyTewks:quote:Originally posted by showme:
ran across this recently good breakdown of what hands are doing.
Top Hand Torque
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/1f2SwCoFRgI
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/1f2SwCoFRgI
Most high school players have heard of torque but don't know what it really is if they are asked to define it.
From Dictionary.com:
torque [tawrk]
–noun
1. Mechanics. something that produces or tends to produce torsion or rotation; the moment of a force or system of forces tending to cause rotation.
I'll offer two words. Pronation. Supination. Why is he talking about pulling with the shoulders?
In response to my questions on why linear coaches are convinced rotational hitters can't hit the outside pitch...
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/39_FLMRhxDw
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
tewks, what others are telling you is that "hands" is the cue used by thousands of youth dads and coaches everyday and it's the #1 cause of poor swings today (according to the Sultan poll
So, we are sensitive to the word.
Let me ask you this, could you teach your swing without using the word "hands" at all?
I agree hand is a bad 4 letter word when used as a hitting cue. Too many pay instructors use the word so junior just puts the bat on the ball and doesn't strike out. I think a lot of the hitting is what I call defensive hitting and is built around the premise of fear of striking out. Unfortunately, it is tough to play advanced baseball if you only use a putter. You have to pull out the driver and put away the putter if you want to hit effectively.
Bobby;
your comments are very educational.
Can you send me your e-mail. Maybe you can help coach our SSK teams in the USA Baseball Labor Day tournament this year.
bob Williams
<rwilliams@goodwillseries.org>
your comments are very educational.
Can you send me your e-mail. Maybe you can help coach our SSK teams in the USA Baseball Labor Day tournament this year.
bob Williams
<rwilliams@goodwillseries.org>
quote:Originally posted by showme:quote:Originally posted by BobbyTewks:quote:Originally posted by showme:
ran across this recently good breakdown of what hands are doing.
Top Hand Torque
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/1f2SwCoFRgI
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/1f2SwCoFRgI
Most high school players have heard of torque but don't know what it really is if they are asked to define it.
From Dictionary.com:
torque [tawrk]
–noun
1. Mechanics. something that produces or tends to produce torsion or rotation; the moment of a force or system of forces tending to cause rotation.
I'll offer two words. Pronation. Supination. Why is he talking about pulling with the shoulders?
In response to my questions on why linear coaches are convinced rotational hitters can't hit the outside pitch...
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/39_FLMRhxDw
The shoulder opens. Not because it is pulled open though. The lead shoulder's early turn he is talking about is due to his hand action and rear hip action. When he says "the hands have not moved" at 1 minute in, he is wrong. They have not moved in relation to the body. The barrel moves when he says the hands don't move. The shoulders open because the hips pull them open. He is about 1 frame after stretch. The hands are behind Pujols' head... not good evidence of the hands not moving. What is moving the bat? You just posted video about hand torque...
quote:Originally posted by BOF:
my son included who is still fighting too much "hands"
Can you explain this in detail?
quote:Originally posted by BobbyTewks:quote:Originally posted by BOF:
my son included who is still fighting too much "hands"
Can you explain this in detail?
Sure. First you have to see this in video. He has been working with a guy since last summer to retool his swing. He is almost there (if there is such a thing) but anyway when you look at him in slow motion his swing is generally OK, balanced around his core, stretch and load good, short, generally connected and then about 1-2 frames prior to ball strike you see his hands disconnect from his hips and come through to the ball. The real cause of this is him not firing his hips all the way through. What happens is that his throw is then early, which causes it to be off line from the center slightly, he then tends cut across the ball somewhat, and he tends to come up and out in his follow through. Like I said the real cause of the issues are his hips not rotating completely.
Like Sultan has pointed out most young hitters I see hit with their hands and not their hips….Jr being one of them, which is why I hate “hands to the ball” comments, and what you posted with about using your hands. Just a personal semantics issue.
If you look at Puljos he comes through and is perfectly connected - his hips stop and his hands then fly straight back at the pitcher, so yes of course he hits with his hands, but it really all starts with him driving his hips and being very connected. (amongst a lot of other great things)
You will never see this in real time and many unknowing coaches will say he has a good swing, but when you look at in slow motion video its like - whoops there go the hands again.
BOF,
If your Instructor is telling you "the hands are along for the ride", you need to do your Son a favor and run far, far away from him. The hands are driving the rocket. There is no "hand/eye coordination" without full use of the hands. The key to the swing and having control without push/pull of the arms is turning the barrel rearward.
If your Instructor is telling you "the hands are along for the ride", you need to do your Son a favor and run far, far away from him. The hands are driving the rocket. There is no "hand/eye coordination" without full use of the hands. The key to the swing and having control without push/pull of the arms is turning the barrel rearward.
quote:Originally posted by BOF:quote:Originally posted by BobbyTewks:quote:Originally posted by BOF:
my son included who is still fighting too much "hands"
Can you explain this in detail?
Sure. First you have to see this in video. He has been working with a guy since last summer to retool his swing. He is almost there (if there is such a thing) but anyway when you look at him in slow motion his swing is generally OK, balanced around his core, stretch and load good, short, generally connected and then about 1-2 frames prior to ball strike you see his hands disconnect from his hips and come through to the ball. The real cause of this is him not firing his hips all the way through. What happens is that his throw is then early, which causes it to be off line from the center slightly, he then tends cut across the ball somewhat, and he tends to come up and out in his follow through. Like I said the real cause of the issues are his hips not rotating completely.
Like Sultan has pointed out most young hitters I see hit with their hands and not their hips….Jr being one of them, which is why I hate “hands to the ball” comments, and what you posted with about using your hands. Just a personal semantics issue.
If you look at Puljos he comes through and is perfectly connected - his hips stop and his hands then fly straight back at the pitcher, so yes of course he hits with his hands, but it really all starts with him driving his hips and being very connected. (amongst a lot of other great things)
You will never see this in real time and many unknowing coaches will say he has a good swing, but when you look at in slow motion video its like - whoops there go the hands again.
For high speed video, I have the Casio EX-F1 and have a lot of high speed video (300 fps and 600 fps) from MLB games. You can pick up an EX-FH20 for less than $300 now online and can get 240 frames per second. It is AMAZING how connected they are.
When I hear "hands to the ball" I usually see "arms bringing hands to the ball." I think we are saying the same thing. I think the disconnect in communication on these forums is what is typically taught about the hands versus what is really happening with the hands. Two people can say the same phrase and mean ENTIRELY different things.
I prefer the phrase "take the barrel to the ball." How does your son's instructor address staying connected?
quote:Originally posted by BobbyTewks:
I prefer the phrase "take the barrel to the ball." How does your son's instructor address staying connected?
"Hands back"
Should be "hands tight."
I would agree that many of the arguments in the hitting forum are about semantics and trying to explain with words a complex motion. I have also seen with my son and others that different clues or descriptions trigger “light bulbs” in their head and they suddenly get what a coach is trying to get them to do. Everyone is different and different things trigger him to get it. Some think they have it, when in fact their swing really stinks. (lots of these)
To me video is a requirement not an option; they will work on one thing until he is close to what the coach wants and then they will do a video session and go back and look at it in slow motion - then work on it a little more. He will always go away with “home work” on stuff to work on with me or most importantly in the mirror during the week. This allows him to get a feel for a certain movement and then comeback and work on it with his coach either later in the week or the following week. Sequencing in slow motion in front of the mirror until he gets the body movement has been the greatest help of anything. His break down in connection as I posted earlier, I believe is a lack of true commitment to get his hips through. He is working on various forms of hip drills right now. He has previously worked closely on the grip, bat angle and location, wrist angle, elbow coming through properly, and probably some other stuff I have forgotten.
I am amazed how long it takes to rebuild a swing and my son is/was a very good hitter. He led his HS Varsity team as a Soph last year hitting in the 4 hole. (even with a cr a pp y swing
)
PTOF: I get you, but there is no high level swing with out full use of the hips either. I am not an expert at this stuff but I would say Puljos’ hips are driving the rocket, the hands are adjusting and release once the hip stops. (and BOY do they release!) At least in my son’s case he needs more hips, he has the hand/eye part down.
So anyway back to this thread, when I see kids post stuff about bat speed and I see most of the swings posted here- IMO they should be working on batting efficiency, swing, stroke whatever you want to call it and forget about bat speed.
To me video is a requirement not an option; they will work on one thing until he is close to what the coach wants and then they will do a video session and go back and look at it in slow motion - then work on it a little more. He will always go away with “home work” on stuff to work on with me or most importantly in the mirror during the week. This allows him to get a feel for a certain movement and then comeback and work on it with his coach either later in the week or the following week. Sequencing in slow motion in front of the mirror until he gets the body movement has been the greatest help of anything. His break down in connection as I posted earlier, I believe is a lack of true commitment to get his hips through. He is working on various forms of hip drills right now. He has previously worked closely on the grip, bat angle and location, wrist angle, elbow coming through properly, and probably some other stuff I have forgotten.
I am amazed how long it takes to rebuild a swing and my son is/was a very good hitter. He led his HS Varsity team as a Soph last year hitting in the 4 hole. (even with a cr a pp y swing
) PTOF: I get you, but there is no high level swing with out full use of the hips either. I am not an expert at this stuff but I would say Puljos’ hips are driving the rocket, the hands are adjusting and release once the hip stops. (and BOY do they release!) At least in my son’s case he needs more hips, he has the hand/eye part down.
So anyway back to this thread, when I see kids post stuff about bat speed and I see most of the swings posted here- IMO they should be working on batting efficiency, swing, stroke whatever you want to call it and forget about bat speed.
Thanks for the responses. BOF I understand you saying that I should concern myself with batting efficiency, swing, and stroke but I also realize that early bat speed will help me enormously. It will help me wait longer and be able to hit faster pitching.
There is not one thing that will make me a better hitter. That is why hitting is so hard. At this point, I want to know how to get faster early bat speed.
If someone would be able to clarify, the key to early bat speed is keeping the hands close to the body and the hips leading the hands, is that correct?
There is not one thing that will make me a better hitter. That is why hitting is so hard. At this point, I want to know how to get faster early bat speed.
If someone would be able to clarify, the key to early bat speed is keeping the hands close to the body and the hips leading the hands, is that correct?
Johnny:
Someone from our esteemed hitting group might be able to help you, but I have never heard the term “early bat speed”. My son has worked on getting his front foot down early and getting his hips started. You probably have heard the term “short to the ball, long through it” In my experience if you get your swing right and are “short to the ball” have your foot down, are balanced, loaded with your hands in the right spot, and have your hips going no one is going to throw a fast ball by you. Just not going to happen. The only thing I would suggest is that you get some video from the side and post it so some of the guys here can help you. There are just too many variables to try to figure out what is going on.
Someone from our esteemed hitting group might be able to help you, but I have never heard the term “early bat speed”. My son has worked on getting his front foot down early and getting his hips started. You probably have heard the term “short to the ball, long through it” In my experience if you get your swing right and are “short to the ball” have your foot down, are balanced, loaded with your hands in the right spot, and have your hips going no one is going to throw a fast ball by you. Just not going to happen. The only thing I would suggest is that you get some video from the side and post it so some of the guys here can help you. There are just too many variables to try to figure out what is going on.
Early batspeed is when the bat handle is turning in the hands and the barrel is not moving toward the pitcher.....It's also called floating the bat.....
Most amateur hitters don't do it......MLB hitters do......If you don't do it, you aren't sequencing efficiently....
Most amateur hitters don't do it......MLB hitters do......If you don't do it, you aren't sequencing efficiently....
quote:Originally posted by BOF:
PTOF: I get you, but there is no high level swing with out full use of the hips either. I am not an expert at this stuff but I would say Puljos’ hips are driving the rocket, the hands are adjusting and release once the hip stops. (and BOY do they release!) At least in my son’s case he needs more hips, he has the hand/eye part down.
The hips are the rockets, the hands are driving.
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
Early batspeed is when the bat handle is turning in the hands and the barrel is not moving toward the pitcher.....It's also called floating the bat.....
Most amateur hitters don't do it......MLB hitters do......If you don't do it, you aren't sequencing efficiently....
In your opinion, who are the current players that do this the best?
quote:Originally posted by BOF:
My son has worked on getting his front foot down early and getting his hips started.
Can you clarify how and when he gets his hips started? Is this related to the front foot being down... and which part of the foot are we talking about?
quote:Originally posted by BobbyTewks:quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
Early batspeed is when the bat handle is turning in the hands and the barrel is not moving toward the pitcher.....It's also called floating the bat.....
Most amateur hitters don't do it......MLB hitters do......If you don't do it, you aren't sequencing efficiently....
In your opinion, who are the current players that do this the best?
Here's a better view of the hands moving rearward...
http://www.batspeed.com/media/..._Strawberry_Sosa.wmv
These guys are the best at early batspeed.
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/1f2SwCoFRgI
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/pQ4wvLnKXug
quote:Originally posted by showme:quote:Originally posted by BobbyTewks:quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
Early batspeed is when the bat handle is turning in the hands and the barrel is not moving toward the pitcher.....It's also called floating the bat.....
Most amateur hitters don't do it......MLB hitters do......If you don't do it, you aren't sequencing efficiently....
In your opinion, who are the current players that do this the best?
Here's a better view of the hands moving rearward...
http://www.batspeed.com/media/..._Strawberry_Sosa.wmv
These guys are the best at early batspeed.
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/1f2SwCoFRgI
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/pQ4wvLnKXug
Are you Mr. Mankin? If no, why use all batspeed.com videos? What other sites/forums have you debunked along the way to find that batspeed.com is top dog?
ugh... because there good.
Words and pictures go together. Jack doesn't seem to let his ego get in the way.
Words and pictures go together. Jack doesn't seem to let his ego get in the way.
quote:Originally posted by showme:
ugh... because there good.
Words and pictures go together. Jack doesn't seem to let his ego get in the way.
They are good compared to what, in your experience?
quote:Originally posted by showme:
ugh... because there good.
Words and pictures go together. Jack doesn't seem to let his ego get in the way.
Also, truth trumps ego.
Depends on whose versions of the truth you got.
Bobby what exactly is your issue?
Bobby what exactly is your issue?
quote:Originally posted by showme:
Depends on whose versions of the truth you got.
Bobby what exactly is your issue?
His words and pictures don't go together. He contradicts himself.
Showme,
Have you ever achieved "effortless power" in a swing - either baseball or golf? Did you feel your shoulders pull? Did you draw power from your shoulders? Last night I had two players feel "it" for the first time. High school sophomores (on the smaller side) swinging wood bats. They said it felt like swinging a whiffle ball bat and the ball exploded off the bat with what felt like no effort. Do you work with players who feel that?
My playing career is over. I get mad because nobody ever taught me a swing that felt like that. I had it in games, but never in BP. It is against the majority of what is taught, it is hard to feel... and it is exactly what players should be taught from a young age. It is profound.
Have you ever achieved "effortless power" in a swing - either baseball or golf? Did you feel your shoulders pull? Did you draw power from your shoulders? Last night I had two players feel "it" for the first time. High school sophomores (on the smaller side) swinging wood bats. They said it felt like swinging a whiffle ball bat and the ball exploded off the bat with what felt like no effort. Do you work with players who feel that?
My playing career is over. I get mad because nobody ever taught me a swing that felt like that. I had it in games, but never in BP. It is against the majority of what is taught, it is hard to feel... and it is exactly what players should be taught from a young age. It is profound.
ugh yes my best has a slugging % of 1085.
Those three videos above very clear on creating early bat speed.
Speaking of shoulders...
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/39_FLMRhxDw
"My playing career is over. I get mad because nobody ever taught me a swing that felt like that. I had it in games, but never in BP. It is against the majority of what is taught, it is hard to feel... and it is exactly what players should be taught from a young age. It is profound.'
this I understand coaches take swings away.
Those three videos above very clear on creating early bat speed.
Speaking of shoulders...
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/39_FLMRhxDw
"My playing career is over. I get mad because nobody ever taught me a swing that felt like that. I had it in games, but never in BP. It is against the majority of what is taught, it is hard to feel... and it is exactly what players should be taught from a young age. It is profound.'
this I understand coaches take swings away.
quote:Originally posted by showme:
ugh yes my best has a slugging % of 1085.
Those three videos above very clear on creating early bat speed.
Speaking of shoulders...
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/39_FLMRhxDw
"My playing career is over. I get mad because nobody ever taught me a swing that felt like that. I had it in games, but never in BP. It is against the majority of what is taught, it is hard to feel... and it is exactly what players should be taught from a young age. It is profound.'
this I understand coaches take swings away.
The shoulders rotate. WHY? The shoulders are not pulling, they are resisting... about two frames before he starts his videos. Unfortunately, he is showing clips just after this point - after stretch/separation. Where are the side angles?
He says the hands don't move, then he says they do. His words DO NOT match the videos.
quote:Originally posted by BobbyTewks:quote:Originally posted by showme:
ugh yes my best has a slugging % of 1085.
Those three videos above very clear on creating early bat speed.
Speaking of shoulders...
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/39_FLMRhxDw
"My playing career is over. I get mad because nobody ever taught me a swing that felt like that. I had it in games, but never in BP. It is against the majority of what is taught, it is hard to feel... and it is exactly what players should be taught from a young age. It is profound.'
this I understand coaches take swings away.
The shoulders rotate. WHY? The shoulders are not pulling, they are resisting... about two frames before he starts his videos. Unfortunately, he is showing clips just after this point - after stretch/separation. Where are the side angles?
He says the hands don't move, then he says they do. His words DO NOT match the videos.
If you really want response to your issue with the above video go to his board and ask him. I have found him more than willing to get to the bottom of anything.
http://www.batspeed.com/messageboard/index.html
personally... splitting hairs get in the way of the big picture at times.
quote:Originally posted by showme:quote:Originally posted by BobbyTewks:quote:Originally posted by showme:
ugh yes my best has a slugging % of 1085.
Those three videos above very clear on creating early bat speed.
Speaking of shoulders...
http://www.youtube.com/profile...ed#p/u/0/39_FLMRhxDw
"My playing career is over. I get mad because nobody ever taught me a swing that felt like that. I had it in games, but never in BP. It is against the majority of what is taught, it is hard to feel... and it is exactly what players should be taught from a young age. It is profound.'
this I understand coaches take swings away.
The shoulders rotate. WHY? The shoulders are not pulling, they are resisting... about two frames before he starts his videos. Unfortunately, he is showing clips just after this point - after stretch/separation. Where are the side angles?
He says the hands don't move, then he says they do. His words DO NOT match the videos.
If you really want response to your issue with the above video go to his board and ask him. I have found him more than willing to get to the bottom of anything.
http://www.batspeed.com/messageboard/index.html
personally... splitting hairs get in the way of the big picture at times.
I'll go over and ask.
Good. I found him very helpful.
This video he provided for me about hitting inside and outside pitches, this is what I teach my hitters and I think this video demonstrates it well.
Hitting inside and outside pitches as a rotational hitter.
http://www.batspeed.com/media/...ide-outside-HR-1.wmv
This video he provided for me about hitting inside and outside pitches, this is what I teach my hitters and I think this video demonstrates it well.
Hitting inside and outside pitches as a rotational hitter.
http://www.batspeed.com/media/...ide-outside-HR-1.wmv
quote:Originally posted by showme:
Good. I found him very helpful.
This video he provided for me about hitting inside and outside pitches, this is what I teach my hitters and I think this video demonstrates it well.
Hitting inside and outside pitches as a rotational hitter.
http://www.batspeed.com/media/...ide-outside-HR-1.wmv
Again, why are the shoulders rotating? See it deeper. The shoulders are not EDIT pulling to rotate. What is the correlation between the hips and shoulders? How about between the hips and hands/hand torque? How about the hands and the rear shoulder?
Also, what is the barrel doing in all of the above.
