Batspeed..

Now how is this related to the job at hand?

Meaning, hitting the ball.

Cause even if you can swing 100 mph means very little if you can't hit that little round ball squarely!

Something to think about for all you technical nuts

top gun, to answer your question about being able to swing 100mph and not hist it. I think the post starter said that increased bat speed is a result from good form. Though I agree it doesnt mean diddly squat if you swing hard and you hit air. BTW does anyone know the avg batspeed for major leaguers/NCaa d1a players?

Ive seen kids that had great form who were weak as dishwater and could not generate enough bat speed to hit the ball out of the infield. Ive seen kids that had terrible mechanics at the plate that were strong as bulls that could crush a baseball. THATS A FACT, Ive seen it numerous times over the years.

And you can do all the technical stuff you want-- the kid is either a hitter or he isnt--you don't teach that talent

I believe the concept is "hand-eye coordination" which may be enhanced (?) through some exercise but for the most part is innate. The player that consistently makes contact is more likely to benefit increased bat speed whereas one who seldom makes contact will fan with greater authority.

BlueDog,

Welcome back. Before this discussion goes any further, we need to clarify some things:

Do you equate batspeed to momentum of the barrel?

When you say some swing momentum carries over to the follow thru, are you saying that the release of the kinetic energy stored in the barrel is expended "late"?

What do you mean by the hands and arms should totally relax at contact?

Better yet--do the kids he purportedly teaches undertsand what he is telling them ???

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Originally posted by TRhit:
And you can do all the technical stuff you want-- the kid is either a hitter or he isnt--you don't teach that talent

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And you're either over the hill or you're not.

And some never get halfway up the up side of the hill

I know where I am do you?

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The arms and hands should totally relax at ball contact..

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Tell me how I can apply force to swing a bat 100 mph and then instantaneously relax my muscles right at the point of contact?

Where are you getting this data?

If TR is over the hill I hope I am. He tells it like it is.

ted williams said use 100 percent arms and 50 percent legs

"Ive seen kids that had terrible mechanics at the plate that were strong as bulls that could crush a baseball. THATS A FACT, Ive seen it numerous times over the years.

Coach May, anyone can use hand-eye coordination and get lucky on occasion..........However, hand-eye coordination won't cut it with consistency over a period of time...........Great hitters connect the hands and arms to the body and leave hand-eye coordination to the wannabes.........These wannabes will have to change their technique to play on a high level......If they don't change, they will merely wash-out and go home.....

"ted williams said use 100 percent arms and 50 percent legs"

Wavehog, you should actually read what Ted Williams said before quoting him.......I know, that's the old-fashioned way of doing things, but, I'm sure Ted would approve.....Since he is probably the most misquoted man to ever live.........

Redbird, I am saying that batspeed and swing momentum are not the same........Batspeed should be used up so there is none to transfer into the follow-through......Swing momentum does transfer to the follow-through.....

In other words, don't swing through the ball.......If you do, you will be building late batspeed and wasting it......

"Cause even if you can swing 100 mph means very little if you can't hit that little round ball squarely!"

Top Gun, you are correct.......I should have said "controlled batspeed" is a result of proper technique........It is true that improper technique can produce batspeed, also.....

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Ive seen kids that had terrible mechanics at the plate that were strong as bulls that could crush a baseball.

Hand/eye coordination is really the key in hitting. Not how fast you can swing through air!

Wrong!!........Great hitters rotate with connection......Not-so-good hitters rely on hand-eye coordination.......

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Great hitters rotate with connection.

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Tell me. Do they use there eyes to make some connection with the flight of the ball?

And isn't there some use of the arms/hands to go to the ball? For if there was just rotation with out sight it would be hit and miss.

It is done with connection to the shoulders......The hands go to the swing plane.....The swing plane goes to the ball.....

Is there a standard for batspeed? Do MLB or D1's look for anything over 80,85 mph, whatever or is this just something that is interesting and nice to know? I do agree with Bluedog, batspeed has alot to do with proper technique.

And it could be that batspeed comes from having proper technique

Think about it !!!

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Originally posted by BlueDog:
Batspeed and follow-through in hitting are far too misunderstood..

Batspeed in hitting is a result of proper technique..Batspeed is either adequate, or it is not adequate..Much more important than the actual batspeed is WHEN the batspeed is created and WHEN it is spent..It should be created early in the forward swing and spent at, or just before, ball contact..

There is some swing momentum that carries over into the follow-through in an efficient swing..However, a swing that allows batspeed to carry over into the follow-through is an inefficient swing..

The arms and hands should totally relax at ball contact..When it comes to batspeed and the follow-through, the phrase "use it or lose it" applies..

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First, I've sworn to never engage in any of these posts again but I do have to ask a couple of questions. Bluedog, when you say, "It should be created early in the forward swing and spent at, or just before, ball contact.." are you also saying this about a pitch riding on the outside corner. I do agree that the batspeed should be early. However, when a person is "letting the ball get to them," on that outside pitch to drive to right, and speaking from experience, I don't think that every bit of my bat speed has been exhausted prior to contact. Bluedog, this is the perfect place to discuss, as a part of this topic, hands. However, again, you've mentioned that you don't like coaching hands and I've sworn to not engage in any of these posts and so...

BTW, follow through, in my opinion is where the bat is deexcellerated and so, it bat speed and momentum have to have been eliminated at some point prior to, at or very quickly after contact. JMHO!

"....are you also saying this about a pitch riding on the outside corner.."

Yes........A hitter should hook on every pitch, no matter the location, IMO.......

To everyone who says Bluedog is to complicated and needs to keep it simple. I do not believe your ignorance is a reason to criticize bluedog when it comes to hitting information. He is very knowlegdable about the subject. As a 17 yr old who has done his fair share of hitting research I would say bluedogs posts make perfect sense to me and if they don't to you then maybe you are doing something wrong.

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Originally posted by BlueDog:
"....are you also saying this about a pitch riding on the outside corner.."

Yes........A hitter should hook on every pitch, no matter the location, IMO.......

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BlueDog, do you agree or disagree that the majority of pitches on the outside portion of the plate that are pulled result in groundballs to the shortstop?

Bob15, enjoy being 17.

CoachB25, I agree........I don't advocate pulling outside plate pitches, though......IMO, they should be hit the opposite way.......There still should be a hook, though, which releases the power at, or just before bat/ball contact.....

Pure batspeed has nothing to do with technique, eye-hand coordination or follow through. Also it is NOT measured by mph. Batspeed is something we see and hear (the ball has a different sound coming off the bat of a kid with batspeed) Pure bat speed is a result of strength, and most importantly fast twitch muscle response. There are exceptions, but generally fast twitch is something your born with. There are ways to slightly improve fast twitch such as plyometrics and speedbag work. You can also shorten up your swing which will get you to the ball faster, but that still has nothing to do with batspeed. Generally speaking, a slow bat will always be a slow bat. If you dont have batspeed but you can run, shorten up your swing, learn to hit from the left side, put the ball on the ground and run like hell.

zg

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Originally posted by BlueDog:
CoachB25, I agree........I don't advocate pulling outside plate pitches, though......IMO, they should be hit the opposite way.......There still should be a hook, though, which releases the power at, or just before bat/ball contact.....

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So much of what we argue about is really terminology differences. Where you say "hook", we say "let the ball get to you and drive the ball the other way." When we give examples of this via video etc. then we tell them the difference is that they are not looking to slap the ball that way. In my opinion, the power max is at contact and is the result of waiting then exploding that built up energy in that given direction. Because of location and the nature of the pitch etc., I believe it would be impossible to generate more batspeed after contact.

Zengrifter, I refuse to believe that a player can not improve their quick twitch muscles. Now, can they make dramatic change? Probably not. However, they can improve and that improvement can lead to a very successful high school career. For example we do the plyometrics. I really believe in them. For hitting, we use concepts that we teach while having the hitter hit cork balls using taped up ends of hockey sticks. When one of our hockey kids breaks a stick, we want them badly! In doing the underload training, we also overload using athletic tape on the ends of our bats. It doesn't add a lot of weight and yet, it adds weight. Please note, I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying that I refuse to accept it and constantly work at getting our players to improve their quick twitch muscles.

"Where you say "hook", we say "let the ball get to you and drive the ball the other way."

Two entirely different things, Coach.......

Zengrifter, I don't know if you posted to stir the pot, or if you truly believe what you said.......I'll need to hear more from you to try to decide......

Explain "Hook" then.

Discussing hitting in person is difficult enough but trying to do it with using just words is nearly impossible but I’ll add my .02.

First of all, you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to know that the most important time that bat speed matters is right at contact and for the milliseconds where the ball is still in contact with the bat. Anything thereafter does not matter, but at the same time, worrying about wasting energy after contact does not matter either since you cannot store this energy for the next swing. You could say it’s similar to running through the finish line in track during a sprint.

As far as hitting an outside pitch, I would think that with proper technique you could generate higher bat speed than on an inside pitch. I’m just thinking back to my Physics class although it’s been a long time ago. Because of this I agree with whoever said they teach their kids to drive the outside pitch, not slap it to the opposite field. Why would you not want to drive the pitch your bat has the chance of going the fastest.

Form does matter because good form is necessary for generating bat speed at the optimum time and having the best chance to place the bat in the right plane and contact point.

Great bat speed and bad form can hit bad pitching but you need good form and bat speed to consistently hit top pitching.

CoachB25, to understand "hook", you would need to do some research at a certain website that I'm not allowed to mention here........Hook is very closely related to connection and rotation........

My son works with a Triple A minor leaguer and he totally agrees with Bluedog. Proper technique and quick twitch muscles will generate the most bat speed. My son has also told me that the legs play one of the most important parts of being able to generate that speed.

It is refreshing to find someone who knows what they are talking about when they explain the proper technique for hitting.

limom = rshard?

redbird


Is it worth the effort !!!!!!