Batting out of Position/Not Reporting

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Originally posted by BGross:
Yesterday I was scoring for my son's JV game and noticed that a player substitution was not reported to me. After the first pitch, I informed the coach of the infraction and he inturn reported it to the umpire. After some discussion, the player was called out and the inning ended. During the course of the teams changing, the umpire came to me and stated that the infraction was considered batting out of order. I now need to know who is credited with the out and how it will appear in the scorebook....by the way, I am taking the assist.

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You had a dumber-than-dirt umpire who needs serious re-training before being allowed to work HS, or even LL, games again.

1..This was an unreported substitute, NOT batting out of order. There is no penalty for an unreported sub.

2..If this was a BOO situation, as soon long as the batter is still at bat, there is no penalty. He is replaced by the proper batter, who assumes the count on the improper batter.

3..Give the out to umpire's stupidity. And a scorekeeper cannot be given an assist in the book. Only a "Thank you" from the coach.

Bluezebra,

What a fine completment to pay a fellow umpire "dumber-than-dirt". (ha,ha). That umpire was a disgrace to the profession.

You are right on all accounts!!!

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Originally posted by Pirate Fan:
Bluezebra,

What a fine completment to pay a fellow umpire "dumber-than-dirt". (ha,ha). That umpire was a disgrace to the profession.

You are right on all accounts!!!

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PF:

Thank you. But I don't consider someone like that an umpire. Just a character who goes out there for a game check, and doesn't know the rules.

Thank You.... I guess I need to do a little more indept reading

Bgross,

Bluezebra is right on the money. Batting out of order is when a reported player bats in the wrong position in the batting order (example: mistaking who made the last out and sending the wrong batter to the plate). Sometimes a misguided coach may even intentionally swap a batter to try to gain an advantage. You know, anything to win a ballgame.

My Umpire chapter, like most I assume, assigns Freshman and JV games to our most junior umpires. It's always been a rule of thumb that your better and more experienced umpires get the Varsity games.

The only drawback to that is, that it is in the lower levels that all the situations that the rule book can throw at you show up. I do a varsity game and its like clockwork. Players run, catch hit, throw, appeal. I do a Freshman game and its like the circus came to town. Batting out of order, illegal subs, illegal bats, anything and everything. The players are inexperienced with Fed rules, the coaches are inexperienced with Fed rules. Throw in a few experiences with an Umpire like the one described above and you have quite an afternoon on your hands.

The one thing that constantly haunts a dedicated umpire is having to overcome our less than dedicated members.

Ditto to all of the previous comments (including the 3-ring nature of JV games!) But let me repeat part so that hopefully some people who read this will take note:
1. There is no requirement of "announcing" substitutes, to the official scorekeeper or anyone else. It's a good thing, customarily done, it may be covered between the ump and coaches pregame, but if a sub isn't announced, there's no penalty (as long as he's a legal sub under the rules which cover that.)
2. Scorekeepers have no business butting into the game. If the ump has the count wrong, unless he asks you, keep quiet. If someone does bat out of order, or is subbed illegally, unless the ump asks you, keep quiet. Two (or four) outs in the inning? See above.

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Originally posted by P-Dog:
Ditto to all of the previous comments (including the 3-ring nature of JV games!) But let me repeat part so that hopefully some people who read this will take note:
1. There is no requirement of "announcing" substitutes, to the official scorekeeper or anyone else. It's a good thing, customarily done, it may be covered between the ump and coaches pregame, but if a sub isn't announced, there's no penalty (as long as he's a legal sub under the rules which cover that.)
2. Scorekeepers have no business butting into the game. If the ump has the count wrong, unless he asks you, keep quiet. If someone does bat out of order, or is subbed illegally, unless the ump asks you, keep quiet. Two (or four) outs in the inning? See above.

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The scorekeeper for a team SHOULD mention any abberations to the head coach. It's the coach's job to bring it to the attention of the umpire. I keep score for a HS varsity team. If I saw a BOO, I would be remiss not to tell my coach.

Also, if I see a misapplication of a rule, I would mention it to the coach.

Interesting. I checked out the OBR (on MLB.com) and found that while a scorekeeper is specifically directed not to say anything if a player bats out of order, the 'keeper is supposed to speak up if the team leaves the filed with less than 3 outs.
From Rule 10.01:

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(2) If the teams change sides before three men are put out, the scorer shall immediately inform the umpire of the mistake. ***
(5) The scorer shall not call the attention of the umpire or of any member of either team to the fact that a player is batting out of turn.

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Originally posted by P-Dog:
Interesting. I checked out the OBR (on MLB.com) and found that while a scorekeeper is specifically directed _not_ to say anything if a player bats out of order, the 'keeper _is_ supposed to speak up if the team leaves the filed with less than 3 outs.
From Rule 10.01:

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(2) If the teams change sides before three men are put out, the scorer shall immediately inform the umpire of the mistake. ***
(5) The scorer shall not call the attention of the umpire or of any member of either team to the fact that a player is batting out of turn.

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That's for the Official Scorer at pro games. Or at games (tournaments, etc) where there is an Official Scorer not affiliated with any team. A scorekeeper for a team doesn't have those restrictions.

The Official Scorer and a team's scorekeeper are two different animals.