BB America Top 50 - Who is missing?

Buhach Colony from the Central Valley. They are as good or better than any team in southern California.

I thought it was odd that Don Bosco Prep would be ranked # 1 by Collegiate Baseball, # 33 by Baseball America. Quite a disparity, perhaps due to the wholly subjective nature of these polls.

quote:

Originally posted by ncball:
Buhach Colony from the Central Valley. They are as good or better than any team in southern California.

A team you lost to at SLO lost only one starter to graduation and have added a couple of bats and an arm.

The perfect game HS team rankings are out. They have Thousand Oaks at 41 and Crespi in the 80s nationally.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
The perfect game HS team rankings are out. They have Thousand Oaks at 41 and Crespi in the 80s nationally.

My feeling is that BC from central valley would feel pretty beat up just facing Marmonte League teams. LB Wilson would be a very tall order for them.

Just? Actually some of the central valley teams are pretty strong at times.

MTS- Why do you say that? They have three guys who will pitch at the next level at a minimum including a lefty who is in the 90's that some people think might go in the first round.

That is typical SoCal superiority complex. Baseball in southern California is deeper- not always better. I've been taking our summer/fall program down south for 15 years and seen the best SoCal has to offer. The best in central and northern California can play with anybody down there.

My son has played with several of the players from Buhach colony this fall and they do have some great arms, but as a overall team they have yet to even get to to the sub section championship game and have some defensive short comings as was evident in last years playoffs. So to say they are better then any team in the south is quite a leap, socal has some of the best high school teams in the nation. They have to proof on the diamond.

quote:

Originally posted by ncball:
MTS- Why do you say that? They have three guys who will pitch at the next level at a minimum including a lefty who is in the 90's that some people think might go in the first round.

That is typical SoCal superiority complex. Baseball in southern California is deeper- not always better. I've been taking our summer/fall program down south for 15 years and seen the best SoCal has to offer. The best in central and northern California can play with anybody down there.

I'm sorry you said BC is as good, if not better. You guys lost 11-4 to us. We lost only 1 player to graduation and gained a couple of bats. During the summer and fall a lot of the high schools are trying new players to see if they will play at the next level, so you didn't necessarily get to see the best. Some played football others took official trips. Depth is what it's all about.

cathedral from san diego is ranked 60 in PGs ranking, with a more or less all 09 team---cept chris wilson, i wonder what they will be next year?

There is a lot more to the game then just throwing hard, again I will go back to last years playoffs with the same pitchers, BC went 1-2 gave up alot of runs, they have the potential to be a good team and do play in a very good league, but this is a very tough section in norcal with Elk Grove winning 3 consecutive section crowns and they are not on anyones national radar. So to be better than any team in socal you need to win in your own backyard.

quote:

Originally posted by bbfan10:
There is a lot more to the game then just throwing hard, again I will go back to last years playoffs with the same pitchers, BC went 1-2 gave up alot of runs, they have the potential to be a good team and do play in a very good league, but this is a very tough section in norcal with Elk Grove winning 3 consecutive section crowns and they are not on anyones national radar. So to be better than any team in socal you need to win in your own backyard.

Perhaps you should look at Maxpreps and see who won what last year. We lost no pitchers to graduation, picked up another, plus 3 very heavy bats and more middle infield. One very strong player was ineligible last year because he had transferred in.

MTS, my comments were directed to ncball and his opinion that BC is at the level as some of the best HS teams in socal, although I do believe BC has some great arms, it takes more to be a nationally recognized program and you should win in your own area before comparing yourself to some of the elite programs in socal.

quote:

Originally posted by bbfan10:
MTS, my comments were directed to ncball and his opinion that BC is at the level as some of the best HS teams in socal, although I do believe BC has some great arms, it takes more to be a nationally recognized program and you should win in your own area before comparing yourself to some of the elite programs in socal.

Sorry, I'm dyslexic.

bbfan- They are the best team in that section and I don't think it's close. Elk Grove will be WAY down this year and won't be in the discussion.

MTS- I have nothing to do with Buhach Colony. I know the talent they have and they can match up and beat anybody down there. Bottom line- SoCal doesn't have the market cornered on good baseball. I know plenty of teams in high school and travel from northern California that handle the best Socal has to offer. SoCal is the best overall in talent in the country. That said, to not give credit to other areas is foolish.

quote:

Originally posted by ncball:
bbfan- They are the best team in that section and I don't think it's close. Elk Grove will be WAY down this year and won't be in the discussion.

MTS- I have nothing to do with Buhach Colony. I know the talent they have and they can match up and beat anybody down there. Bottom line- SoCal doesn't have the market cornered on good baseball. I know plenty of teams in high school and travel from northern California that handle the best Socal has to offer. SoCal is the best overall in talent in the country. That said, to not give credit to other areas is foolish.

They will need to win against the best of SoCal, to say "They are as good, if not better than SoCal Teams."

So if Northern California teams aren't good enough to play with the Southern California teams how come when Monterey went to the Bishop Gorman tourney in Las Vegas last year, they not only beat the eventual Nevada state champion home team Bishop Gorman, they also beat Lutheran from Orange and tied with Bellflower - ended up winning the whole thing... not bad for a small public school of 1200 kids...

So how about a Southern California team coming up north for once... we have fields too!!! Last time I checked they were 90 ft between bases... (although underwater it was hard to measure...)

08

quote:

Originally posted by 08Dad:
So if Northern California teams aren't good enough to play with the Southern California teams how come when Monterey went to the Bishop Gorman tourney in Las Vegas last year, they not only beat the eventual Nevada state champion home team Bishop Gorman, they also beat Lutheran from Orange and tied with Bellflower - ended up winning the whole thing... not bad for a small public school of 1200 kids...

So how about a Southern California team coming up north for once... we have fields too!!! Last time I checked they were 90 ft between bases... (although underwater it was hard to measure...)

08

Take a look at the schedules of those two teams. Most of their wins were against teams with losing records. Both lost in the 1st round of CIF playoffs.

So beating the #7 team in the country doesn't matter? Not our fault in Nor Cal that So Cal teams are too cool to travel...

MTS- That's incredibly arrogant. It doesn't matter where you play if you can play. We take teams down to SoCal with our summer/fall teams and beat the best SoCal has to offer on a regular basis. This goes back to playing against Chavez and Munson from san Diego when they were kids. The top teams north of the grapevine can play every bit as well as the top teams south of it.

I will put the WCAL against ANY league in the south. Bellarmine, Serra, Archbishop Mitty, Valley Christian, and St. Francis are some of the top programs on the west coast for the last decade and they are all in the same league. Socal baseball is outstanding but the brand of baseball they play up here doesn't take a back seat to anybody.

I've seen some of the talent from the WCAL and year in year out it is a very strong league. There's no question those teams can compete with the best SoCal has to offer.

We have a lot of great talent down here, there's a lot of great talent in central CA and northern CA, and it is fun to try and figure out where teams and leagues from different sections stand relative to each other, but not worth getting into heated arguments about.

CADad- Thanks for being reasonable. No question the best baseball played in the country is in southern California. That said, there are lots of great teams everywhere. I would think frustrated by ignorance of others would be a more apt description than heated.

its too bad CA doesnt do a state champion...so we could really find out where the best teams are

A state championship is a nice idea that'll never come to fruition. CIF isn't going to sanction athletic competitions that run outside the school year. There's a lot of very good baseball played all the way throughout most of the state, both during the high school season, and in summer. I don't know that I regard any particular region as better than any other, but the south does have more quality teams. This, in my opinion, is simply due to the much larger population and number of teams down there. Whether it's high school or summer, if you take the top 25 teams from all over the state, you'll find both north and south well represented.

This was your 1st post in this thread

quote:

Originally posted by ncball:
Buhach Colony from the Central Valley. They are as good or better than any team in southern California.

Looks like an arrogant statement, doesn't it? Our school actually beat BC last year in SLO which means we traveled and met BC halfway. So If you are going to make a statement like you did above, you will get called on it. I think you would have had difficulties not only against Thousand Oaks Varsity last year but against their JV's as well.

I agree with 06catcherdad. Our beautiful state of California is blessed with an abundance of baseball talent (it is a pretty big state )The south has long been known for excellent baseball. The Central and Northern regions have just recently been acknowleged as hotbeds for talent as well.
I think generalities north or south are a bit silly.
Cali's got talent.

MTS- I don't play nice like 06 and iheartbb. They are too reasonable and diplomatic. OTOH- I get ticked off when I hear about Socal superiority. I've been doing this and observing too long to let somebody get away with this SoCal bias when I know our area is every bit as talented.

My first post on this thread has NOTHING to do with my opinions unless the amount of posts is a barometer of intelligence for you. Also, I have NOTHING to do with BC. They are 2 hours away from me.

Buhach Colony has a minimum of four guys getting D1 scholarships. They have a senior in Brett Mooneyham that is projected to go in the first or second round and a junior in Floro that is one of the top 4-5 2009 pitchers in the state. They are very talented- period.

I will reiterate, they are as good or better than anybody down south. If they were located in Socal they would be ranked very high. Simple bias- that's a fact. Too many high schools and summer programs from northern California has had too much success down there to prove otherwise.

Finally, have you noticed how reticent teams from SoCal are to take the journey north. FYI- I don't think SLO constitutes as halfway.

quote:

Originally posted by ncball:
MTS- I don't play nice like 06 and iheartbb. They are too reasonable and diplomatic. OTOH- I get ticked off when I hear about Socal superiority. I've been doing this and observing too long to let somebody get away with this SoCal bias when I know our area is every bit as talented.

My first post on this thread has NOTHING to do with my opinions unless the amount of posts is a barometer of intelligence for you. Also, I have NOTHING to do with BC. They are 2 hours away from me.

Buhach Colony has a minimum of four guys getting D1 scholarships. They have a senior in Brett Mooneyham that is projected to go in the first or second round and a junior in Floro that is one of the top 4-5 2009 pitchers in the state. They are very talented- period.

I will reiterate, they are as good or better than anybody down south. If they were located in Socal they would be ranked very high. Simple bias- that's a fact. Too many high schools and summer programs from northern California has had too much success down there to prove otherwise.

Finally, have you noticed how reticent teams from SoCal are to take the journey north. FYI- I don't think SLO constitutes as halfway.

So we are 19 miles closer to SLO, but we have to fight traffic on the 101.

Your BC still lost to us 11-4. In that game and another we had 2-3 starters that were benched for disciplinary reasons. We have also gotten deeper since last year. We have at least 4 verbal commitments to D-1 schools. Two of our lefties are throwing over 90 mph and are getting looks from pro scouts.

So maybe you are as good as some SO Cal teams, but not better.

The pitchers at BC individually can be as good as any in socal or anywhere else. ncball 1st post referred to BC being as good as any TEAM in socal. I am from the central valley and have seen them play several times, we also played them and won. They were also knocked out of the playoffs by a team in there own league. I'm sure they are all great kids, and I mean no disrespect to any of them, we do have a lot of excellent players in the valley. But in my opinion like I posted before to compare BC as a team to some of the elite programs in the country you should win in your own area 1st. They do have great pitching but that alone does not make you a great team. Best wishes to BC and all the other teams in the valley, and hope to meet them again in the playoffs.

quote:

Originally posted by bbfan10: (atuff deleted) But in my opinion like I posted before to compare BC as a team to some of the elite programs in the country you should win in your own area 1st.

Interesting criteria - and probably worth discussing outside of the context of this north vs south war that seems to have kicked in...

bbfan suggests that for a team to be "elite" it must have won its CIF sectional title. There is real merit in that argument - after all, winning a CIF sectional title does identify excellent teams. I do have two concerns:

1) it suggests that all of the other teams are "not elite". Of course, we all know of teams that have run into a hot pitcher or some other oddity in this one and done format. Imagine the MLB world series being decided by a CIF style playoff - how often would the best team win the title? I'll try to avoid thinking about the 2002 Angels

2) It bases elite status based upon what last year's team did - not the capabilities of this year's squad. I don't have a better criteria for on the field measurement of a HS team at this point in the year. D1 scholarships assumes that D1 is the desired goal of every player - and also only counts the seniors or the very early signing underclassman.

Regardless, I do think that quality baseball teams can be found all over the state - and that we should be celebrating that the game remains healthy and that so many wonderful players can be seen essentially for free.

08dad


P.S. By the "must have won CIF criteria", MTS needs to also exit this discussion with his school as it has been several years since his school won a CIF Sectional Title.

P.P.S. My alma mater has 7 titles total and 3 in the last 3 years - I get to keep talking

The bar was set very high on the original post of this topic, BC as good or better than ant team in socal. I would suggest to be better than any team in socal would be an elite team.

no doubt about it - any team that is better than all of the teams in So Cal is a very fine team... and unfortunately we will never know if there is such a team since we don't have a decent playoff system.

Of course we could do like football and have a north vs south one weekend playoff but that would make too much sense. Of course we could also emulate college football and have a BCS

Good luck to all the teams in ca., I sure hope the rain stops so we can get started. Looks like with the games already being backed up we'll find out how deep the pitrchig is.

I looked over the list and there were 6 Ca teams so it seems like there is a lot of talent outside of the Golden State.....which leads me to.... how the heck do they even try to come up with a list like this with thousands of High Schools out there. I bet darts would be just as accurate.

If you’re really interested in how your team(s) stacks up get the team to a statewide travel ball tournament, there are a number of them. If you are a little creative you could arrange to go to the same one and smack talk to your hearts content in the stands.

I the FWIW department, when my son was playing travel ball we used to go to Paso Robles occasionally and played some VERY good Northern Cal teams. I now know why we lost....it was 3 miles closer to the bay area.

To really add fuel to this fire check out the roundthirdblogspot.com for their rankings. I agree with BOF about the dartboard theory. Probably just as accurate!

But it's great to see the CA board come alive, agree or disagree. Good luck to all the teams, enjoy this year and play your best baseball.

I'll add one thing about who's the best, at least in the Sac-Joaquin section. Until you beat Elk Grove in the playoffs, you're not the best. Despite facing some outstanding Jesuit teams, as well as Davis and a few others, Elk Grove keeps getting it done, regardless of who has the "best" team.

Someone commented that E.G. is way down this year. I heard that last year as well. Saw them play Buchanan last Monday, and while neither team played as well as they could, Elk Grove was quite a bit better, in my opinion. They'll likely be there again this year late in the playoffs. Question is, will BC?

Stay tuned....

And when you all get tired of debating high school north vs. south, we can start talking about summer ball. Those teams do compete against each other every summer, so we'll be able to debate that a bit more objectively, I think.

That's a whole 'nother can of worms.

For those of you looking for an event with some of the best in the country playing against each other, check out the National Classic field (3/22-3/28 in Orange County)

(Number is National Rank from PG Crosschecker)

6 St. Johns College, DC
14 Orange Lutheran, CA
16 Jupiter, FL
17 James River, VA
20 Vista Murrieta, CA
23 Aptos, CA
24 Calvert Hall College, MD
36 Yucaipa, CA
49 Christian Brothers, TN
84 Crespi, CA
NR Bishop Amat, CA
NR Cottonwood, UT
NR El Dorado, CA
NR Esperanza, CA
NR Seminole Ridge, FL
NR West Linn, OR

http://www.national-classic.com/

This should be an event well worth watching!!!

08