BBCOR.50 Wood Bat, Composite Wood Bat or Metal?

I have had this conversation with a couple of coaches this year because they had players asking to use wood. They sought my advice because I had 3 players swing wood. All players hit over .300 and one player hit .480 with a wooden bat. I think it is based on the player. Some are comfortable with it and some are not. I think the biggest thing is weight distribution. If I pick up different 33-30 BBCOR they all feel the same. If I pick up different 33-30 wooden bats they can feel different. The biggest issue is a lot of player do not realize this and it can effect their performance. Two summer's ago I was working at the local JC and there was a player that had a 33-30 Rawlings wooden bat and the thing felt extremely heavy and the kid could not buy a hit. I gave him a 33-30 Glomar which felt a lot lighter and he started hitting. If a player understands this a buy a wooden bat accordingly then I do not believe there is much different. The next issue is, are the families smart enough to buy mulitple wooden bats. The reason behind this is, what happens if the bat breaks? Now the player is left using a bat that is foreign to him until he can get a new wooden bat in. I do not know if the scouts view it any differently because if you look at D1 they are all swinging BBCOR.

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Originally posted by IEBSBL:
…If I pick up different 33-30 BBCOR they all feel the same.

Then you need to pick up a few more bats. As more and more models are coming onto the market, they’re getting much more varied.

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The biggest issue is a lot of player do not realize this and it can effect their performance. Two summer's ago I was working at the local JC and there was a player that had a 33-30 Rawlings wooden bat and the thing felt extremely heavy and the kid could not buy a hit. I gave him a 33-30 Glomar which felt a lot lighter and he started hitting. If a player understands this a buy a wooden bat accordingly then I do not believe there is much different.

As I’ve said, with more and more different models coming out, the differences because of “feel” will become less and less.

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The next issue is, are the families smart enough to buy mulitple wooden bats. The reason behind this is, what happens if the bat breaks? Now the player is left using a bat that is foreign to him until he can get a new wooden bat in. I do not know if the scouts view it any differently because if you look at D1 they are all swinging BBCOR.

I honestly don’t get why people are in such a hurry to equate BBCOR bats with all the non-woods that came before, and demonize them when comparing them to wood. It’s a lot like demonizing Maple because it breaks easier than ash. They’re not “bad”, just different.

Good question. So far my son says his wood bats are better than any bbcor he has used so far. The new models are coming out so we shall see......

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)(or wood if you have learned to use a wood bat so it won't break)?

How is that?

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Originally posted by NDD:

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)(or wood if you have learned to use a wood bat so it won't break)?

How is that?

dont hit it near the "end cap" and dont get sawed off at the handle..label up or down.

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Originally posted by wogdoggy:
dont hit it near the "end cap" and dont get sawed off at the handle..label up or down.

Watched a 16 year old bring a new woodie (bamboo) into the cage on Saterday. Broke it in less than 30 minutes. I asked to look at it and most of his hits were in the sweet spot but you could really see the mark on the end cap that did his bat in. He said it happened to him last weekend too with a brand new mapple. I asked him if he was aware of the lable up/down rule and he was not. I dont know if that rule of thumb applies to bamboo bats as well but the kid was absolutly crushing the ball... and not keeping the lable up/down. Probably what did his mapple bat in the weekend before.

Hitting off the end cap is what broke my kids Marucci. Label up or down is really a misnomer. It depends on the grain of the wood and where the label is printed. Even then there are differing opinions as to whether you hit on the edge or the face of the grain.

Baum bats Just don't break and they are BBCOR.50 leagal in 2012
I own Northwest Independent Baseball League (nwibl.org) a wood bat summer league in Portland OR and also Wood Bats 4 Sale (woodbats4sale.com) over 80 players on 17 teams use Baum Bats BBCOR.50, next is demarini composite wood, then Mizuno wood composite (which seem to be replaced the most) Baum bats have out hit for average and power with those who use them and none have broke during the three years the league has been in play. woodbats4sale.com sales them for $177 plus usps priority mail shipping anywhere in the USA

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Originally posted by wogdoggy:

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Originally posted by NDD:

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)(or wood if you have learned to use a wood bat so it won't break)?

How is that?

dont hit it near the "end cap" and dont get sawed off at the handle..label up or down.

Yeah, it's really not that difficult. Just make sure you tell the opposing pitcher where he needs to throw the ball and how fast... and NO trying to fool you

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Originally posted by MDteX:
Hitting off the end cap is what broke my kids Marucci. Label up or down is really a misnomer. It depends on the grain of the wood and where the label is printed. Even then there are differing opinions as to whether you hit on the edge or the face of the grain.

Isnt the label printed on the face of the grain so the batter/owner can visibly see the week spot? Thought that was the case.

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Originally posted by bballdad2016:

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Originally posted by MDteX:
Hitting off the end cap is what broke my kids Marucci. Label up or down is really a misnomer. It depends on the grain of the wood and where the label is printed. Even then there are differing opinions as to whether you hit on the edge or the face of the grain.

Isnt the label printed on the face of the grain so the batter/owner can visibly see the week spot? Thought that was the case.

Wooden ash bats have the label printed on the face of the grain, Maple bats companies are now required to print the labels on the grain. I'll explain why in a bit.

When hitting with wood the grains are much like pages in a book. There is much more stability in the structure when hitting the ball on the grain (the binder of the book if you will) vs. the face of the grain (the flat part of the book).

This is where the label up or down comes in. With ash, contact with the hardest area of the bat will happen when the label is up or down (on the edge of the grains). If the label is facing the ball contact will be made with the weak structure of the bat (the face of the grain).

The reason maple companies are now printing the labels on the face of the grains is to promote hitting the ball with the face of the grain instead of the edge of the grain. Confused?

They are required to do this because too many maple bats have shattered too easily presenting more danger to the defenders. This is because they are more ridged than ash - Like glass vs. plastic.

By promoting hitting maple bats on the face vs. the grains, the thought was that they would be less ridged when making contact and less maple bats would "shatter" and fly all over the place.

Point is this... The placement of the label does matter and hitting the ball on the grains vs. the face of the grains matters as well when hitting the "sweet spot".

If you don't hit the ball on the "sweet spot" it doesn't matter what you do... Your bat will probably break!

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Originally posted by cabbagedad:

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Originally posted by wogdoggy:

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Originally posted by NDD:

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)(or wood if you have learned to use a wood bat so it won't break)?

How is that?

dont hit it near the "end cap" and dont get sawed off at the handle..label up or down.

Yeah, it's really not that difficult. Just make sure you tell the opposing pitcher where he needs to throw the ball and how fast... and NO trying to fool you

LOL, only middle middle

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Originally posted by Jimmy33:

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Originally posted by bballdad2016:

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Originally posted by MDteX:
Hitting off the end cap is what broke my kids Marucci. Label up or down is really a misnomer. It depends on the grain of the wood and where the label is printed. Even then there are differing opinions as to whether you hit on the edge or the face of the grain.

Isnt the label printed on the face of the grain so the batter/owner can visibly see the week spot? Thought that was the case.

Wooden ash bats have the label printed on the face of the grain, Maple bats companies are now required to print the labels on the grain. I'll explain why in a bit.

When hitting with wood the grains are much like pages in a book. There is much more stability in the structure when hitting the ball on the grain (the binder of the book if you will) vs. the face of the grain (the flat part of the book).

This is where the label up or down comes in. With ash, contact with the hardest area of the bat will happen when the label is up or down (on the edge of the grains). If the label is facing the ball contact will be made with the weak structure of the bat (the face of the grain).

The reason maple companies are now printing the labels on the face of the grains is to promote hitting the ball with the face of the grain instead of the edge of the grain. Confused?

They are required to do this because too many maple bats have shattered too easily presenting more danger to the defenders. This is because they are more ridged than ash - Like glass vs. plastic.

By promoting hitting maple bats on the face vs. the grains, the thought was that they would be less ridged when making contact and less maple bats would "shatter" and fly all over the place.

Point is this... The placement of the label does matter and hitting the ball on the grains vs. the face of the grains matters as well when hitting the "sweet spot".

If you don't hit the ball on the "sweet spot" it doesn't matter what you do... Your bat will probably break!

When technologies are followed for 100 years, they become a rule-of-thumb. This was the case for the rule-of-thumb of hitting with the LOGO UP with wood bats. Because Ash bats have been the primary wood species used for the past 100 years, the rule-of-thumb for hitting with an Ash bat was to hit LOGO UP so that contact with the ball would occur on the EDGE grain. The reason this was the recommended orientation was because repeated contact on the FLAT-grain face would result in annual ring separation (called “flaking”) in an Ash bat.

When maple bats entered the industry in the 1990’s, manufacturers who produced maple bats continued with the same rule-of-thumb – apply the logo on the FLAT-grain face so that ball contact is made with the EDGE grain.

Long story short, RockBatswas the first to determine and recommend that FLAT-grain contact is the stronger and preferred orientation for maple bats – in 2005. This meant applying our logo on the EDGE grain so that the same LOGO UP rule still applied. As you might expect, given that there was a 100-year-old rule-of-thumb, it was a difficult uphill climb to convince players (and the industry) that this was the stronger and preferred orientation.

Starting in the 2009 season, the major leagues adopted a FLAT-grain contact requirement for maple (and birch) bats in the bat supplier regulations. All manufacturers that supply maple (and birch) bats to the major leagues were required to orient their bats for flat-grain contact.

I have no affiliation with RockBats but the information they provide is very good.

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Originally posted by MDteX:

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Originally posted by Jimmy33:

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Originally posted by bballdad2016:

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Originally posted by MDteX:
Hitting off the end cap is what broke my kids Marucci. Label up or down is really a misnomer. It depends on the grain of the wood and where the label is printed. Even then there are differing opinions as to whether you hit on the edge or the face of the grain.

Isnt the label printed on the face of the grain so the batter/owner can visibly see the week spot? Thought that was the case.

Wooden ash bats have the label printed on the face of the grain, Maple bats companies are now required to print the labels on the grain. I'll explain why in a bit.

When hitting with wood the grains are much like pages in a book. There is much more stability in the structure when hitting the ball on the grain (the binder of the book if you will) vs. the face of the grain (the flat part of the book).

This is where the label up or down comes in. With ash, contact with the hardest area of the bat will happen when the label is up or down (on the edge of the grains). If the label is facing the ball contact will be made with the weak structure of the bat (the face of the grain).

The reason maple companies are now printing the labels on the face of the grains is to promote hitting the ball with the face of the grain instead of the edge of the grain. Confused?

They are required to do this because too many maple bats have shattered too easily presenting more danger to the defenders. This is because they are more ridged than ash - Like glass vs. plastic.

By promoting hitting maple bats on the face vs. the grains, the thought was that they would be less ridged when making contact and less maple bats would "shatter" and fly all over the place.

Point is this... The placement of the label does matter and hitting the ball on the grains vs. the face of the grains matters as well when hitting the "sweet spot".

If you don't hit the ball on the "sweet spot" it doesn't matter what you do... Your bat will probably break!

When technologies are followed for 100 years, they become a rule-of-thumb. This was the case for the rule-of-thumb of hitting with the LOGO UP with wood bats. Because Ash bats have been the primary wood species used for the past 100 years, the rule-of-thumb for hitting with an Ash bat was to hit LOGO UP so that contact with the ball would occur on the EDGE grain. The reason this was the recommended orientation was because repeated contact on the FLAT-grain face would result in annual ring separation (called “flaking”) in an Ash bat.

You can also hit with the label down. As long as the ball doesn't hit where the label is (or on the other side) where the label is, it doesn't matter.

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Originally posted by MDteX:
Hitting off the end cap is what broke my kids Marucci. Label up or down is really a misnomer. It depends on the grain of the wood and where the label is printed. Even then there are differing opinions as to whether you hit on the edge or the face of the grain.

the label is put in the same spot on every bat..it helps you hit the ball with the grain in the stongest position this is true especially with ash when the bat starts to flake.

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Originally posted by NDD:

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Originally posted by cabbagedad:

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Originally posted by wogdoggy:

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Originally posted by NDD:

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)(or wood if you have learned to use a wood bat so it won't break)?

How is that?

dont hit it near the "end cap" and dont get sawed off at the handle..label up or down.

Yeah, it's really not that difficult. Just make sure you tell the opposing pitcher where he needs to throw the ball and how fast... and NO trying to fool you

LOL, only middle middle

no need to tell the pitcher ,,tell the hitter to use the barrel not the handle or the end cap..quit blaming the pitchers...lol

Bought a bat from batsandbillets.com. Very nice maple bat for $27. Saw the name in one of the posts on this site and decided to give it a try. Very pleased.

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Originally posted by Leverage:
Bought a bat from batsandbillets.com. Very nice maple bat for $27. Saw the name in one of the posts on this site and decided to give it a try. Very pleased.

Leverage,
Can you comment on grain quality, consistency? Any specifics you can add regarding quality of the wood? This looked interesting but I can't tell about the above via the website pics.

I compared the wood to my $120 name brand maple bat and it is just as good. The wood on this batsandbillets bat is very hard and the grain is nearly parallel and almost completely straight. I test a bat in the open field by throwing it up in the air and hitting it or hitting off the tee and it hit as well or slightly better than my $120 name brand maple. The craftmanship and wood hardness are all very good. They are unfinished bats so no flashy logos. Just a hard hitting hammer.

They seem to dry the bats well, use hard wood, and good craftsmanship. I figured for $28 plus $11 shipping I would give it a shot and I am very pleased.

It hit well in the cage too. The bat I was comparing it to is a very good maple bat that would outperform a metal Slugger BESR.

Nice. Solid info... thanks!

We recently purchased a Baum bat from woddbats4sale. While durability has yet to be proven, I have to say I'm impressed. The bat is exactly as advertised and the ball sounds great coming off of it.

The service was outstanding. I will be doing business with them again.

"It hit well in the cage too. The bat I was comparing it to is a very good maple bat that would outperform a metal Slugger BESR."

How do I find a maple that would ouperform a BESR? I would buy them in bulk and make a fortune selling them to MLB players.

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Originally posted by Doughnutman:
"It hit well in the cage too. The bat I was comparing it to is a very good maple bat that would outperform a metal Slugger BESR."

How do I find a maple that would ouperform a BESR? I would buy them in bulk and make a fortune selling them to MLB players.

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Originally posted by Doughnutman:
"It hit well in the cage too. The bat I was comparing it to is a very good maple bat that would outperform a metal Slugger BESR."

How do I find a maple that would outperform a BESR? I would buy them in bulk and make a fortune selling them to MLB players.

Where would you find ANY bat that outperforms a BESR that you can use in HS and above baseball? I suppose if we look back at the aluminum bats of the late '90s those would have more pop...

Doughnutman,

You need to understand the difference between BESR and BBCOR. With BBCOR, the difference from the hottest to the coldest bat is going to be much less than the difference between the highest performing composite that’s been rolled and shaved and costs $400 for everything, and some aluminum clank sold at K-Mart for $29.95 brand new. They’re both BESR bats, but the differences are immense.

It isn’t the standard, BBCOR or BESR, its what’s allowed under each. I don’t doubt there might be some old clunker of a BESR bat that is outperformed by a maple bat, but there’s no way, even a corked maple could possibly outperform one of the top composites, especially one that was rolled and shaved.

A high quality Maple can hit further than a metal BESR. It doesn't hit harder though. You get better and more consistent backspin on the ball with maple.

All the bat tests involve ball exit speed and BESR is superior to Maple on ball exit speed but it isn't superior on backspin. I've generally hit the ball further with high quality maple and it is due to backspin.

It is harder to square the ball up with maple too because of the smaller sweet spot.

Low Finish and Stats,
I was merely commenting on Leverages comment that he had a maple bat that could outperform BESR bats. How you guys came up with those responses to my comment seems to me that you guys drink too much, or not enough, I am not sure which would be more helpful.

Better backspin with maple huh. Possible I guess.

I just added a new wood bat to woodbats4sale.com craftsman is John n chris at sandlotsticks you talk about back spin check this out

“The flight of a baseball is directly impacted by the way the ball spins after it comes off the bat. Studies have proven several key factors control what makes a ball travel farther when hit. Bat speed, undercut (where the ball is contacted in relationship to its center), ball exit speed, trajectory, and backspin. The pitch of course also helps determine how far a ball can be hit. It has been proven under optimal conditions a seventy-eight MPH curveball can travel farther than a ninety-four MPH fastball when hit. This is due to a higher rate of backspin. The spin of a curveball is augmented when hit with backspin by up to 800 RPM. A fastballs spin must change direction when hit in order to create backspin. A bat surface with a high coefficient of friction will help create more backspin thus helping the ball lift, travel straighter and with less wind resistance, resulting in more distance.”

“Conventional wood coatings available to the general public are not designed for this type of application. In fact the majority of clear waterborne and solvent borne high gloss topcoats being used today by bat manufacturers are designed for furniture, cabinets and general wood purposes. These coatings are formulated to reduce the coefficient of friction, in turn creating a poor backspin or a knuckleball effect caused by the ball slipping off the bat. This kind of action kills the flight of a baseball because there is more drag on the ball during flight” adds Corso.

“BATLAC H2O TM is designed specifically to increase the coefficient of friction of the bat surface and help create backspin on a batted baseball.”

Preliminary studies were performed at Mac’s Professional Baseball School in Chico, CA. Jon Macalutas’ 7000 square foot indoor facility is set up with five professional style batting cages which incorporate IRON MIKE TM pitching machines that will throw baseballs consistently in excess of 90 MPH. Corso’s initial studies were performed in these cages to test bats coated with BATLAC H2O TM in a controlled environment for more accurate results.

“Initially I wanted to test the durability of the coating then I noticed the ball marks on the bat. The labels of baseballs were being transferred to the bat almost perfectly from the ball. That’s when I knew I was going in the right direction with this coating. The coefficient of friction of the coating was performing so well it was taking the ink off the baseballs.”

Corso’s two biggest concerns regarding his new coating were that the surface of the baseball was not to be damaged by a coating that would leave scratches or cuts, and it had to be a waterborne “Green” coating. “I didn’t want a coating that used a textured surface like sand paper to create the high coefficient of friction, it had to look like and feel like a regular clear topcoat, and that’s what we have created. It was challenging but we made it work, and to top it all off it’s an environmentally safe waterborne coating. When you work around dust and wood, the last thing you want hanging around is a bunch of flammable liquids.”

After the preliminary tests were performed at Mac’s, Sandlot Stiks bats coated with BATLAC H2O TM were sent to the Edmonton Capitals for catcher Matt Ceriani to test in actual professional games throughout the 2009 season. The result… “I put up the best offensive season of my 13 year career at age 32. Sandlot Stiks new bats are simply the best I’ve ever used” says Ceriani. Ceriani posted a career best .312 batting average with 4 homeruns, 12 doubles, 37 runs batted in, a .375 on base percentage and a .420 slugging percentage in over 200 at bats for the Capitals this season. Ceriani has used Sandlot Stiks almost exclusively throughout his career and has noticed the difference since swinging the new BATLAC H2O TM version. “I’ve always loved Sandlot Stiks, but the ball just comes off better now; it really carries when you hit one good.”

It's true that some bats are better than others.

However, we should never lose focus on the most important thing... That would be the big thing attached to the handle of the bat. AKA The Hitter!

The same exact bat performs differently from one hitter to the next.

very very true
all is in the eye of the receiver....

Has anybody tried the Baden axe BBCOR bats. The elite, element or maple composite

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Originally posted by LJ3813:
Has anybody tried the Baden axe BBCOR bats. The elite, element or maple composite

I held one yesterday at the NBSEXPO in San Diego. Felt weird, the knob anyway. They had a nice display set up and you could take a few swings off a tee into a net if you wanted. We passed - long line. They did have a buy one get one thing going on... If you are in the San Diego area, ill bet you can get some great deals from the EXPO today... it is the last day and i a sure many of the vendors are going to want to unload all their merchandise.