BCS Selections Show

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Originally posted by Coach May:
Thank God in baseball we have a playoff. The teams decide on the field who is the champion.

Amen Coach

The way the system works now a minority of programs/conferences control the money. As it is they walked away from the NCAA and formed the BCS. They basically locked out a majority of football programs from the big money.

A playoff system would open up the money to all programs. A playoff system would also diminish the prestige of the major bowl games, decreasing revenue from advertisers and therefore to the conferences and football programs. It's not about fairness. It's about money. Always follow the money trail. Don't count on a playoff system soon.

Add: Since the BCS was formed and money horded by certain conferences, how many of these conference's schools have become much stronger in basketball? Where do you think the money came from for the new facilities to encourage the recruits to build the basketball program? Once again, follow the money trail. Don't hold your breath looking for a football tournament.

Any system that derives a "champion" from a computer model sets itself up for ridicule and failure. It is cold and impersonal at best, and at worst mocks the tradition of the sport.

Aside from my own opinion, perhaps they could let the computer pick the top 4, and have the nation's college coaches pick another four. Then these 8 would have a playoff. The championship would be the "Holiday Bowl National Championship" (rotating bowl names) and the six other games leading up to the national championship could be "playoff bowls".

I believe there will be a playoff some day in football. When it happens, it will make the current bowl system seem irrelevent. It will rival the super bowl. The average fan just doesn't care right now. Put a playoff system in place and that changes. It would create interest where non now exist.

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by Coach: Or should it be called the BS Selection Show? How would you feel if your sons college baseball team was voted in or out of the CWS? Lets see your ranked #3 in the nation. On the last week of the season the #1 and #2 teams in the country lose and are knocked out of selection.

hmm, coach I am trying to follow your frustration

I thought it was a fascinating finish ... the 2 top ranked teams who were a "lock" lost focus & didn't take care of business (one spanked by a 28 pt underdog )

not sure why you'd want to reward the top 2 teams who now have 2 losses (each) by pretending they don't

re: somebody's son's team being leap frogged ... there are other folk's sons on the teams
leaf-frogging ... they'll be dancing in the streets

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by Coach: What it college basketball was treated this same way?

lol, football was settled on the field anyway, but both basketbal AND baseball ARE treated worse ...

coaches drinking malox, players chewing fingernails, while the ncaa committee makes closed door decisions with secret "rpi" formulas determining who will be included in the 64 team tourny brackets - March Madness & Omaha

teams that should be in are moved to the bubble, teams with fan following & new or big venues get the nod over teams that earned it on the field or court

suggest just sit back as it unfolds & enjoy

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:

coaches drinking malox, players chewing fingernails, while the ncaa committee makes closed door decisions with secret "rpi" formulas determining who will be included in the 64 team tourny brackets

teams that should be in are moved to the bubble, teams with fan following & new or big venues get the nod over teams that earned it on the field or court

suggest just sit back as it unfolds & enjoy

Thats why the ACC and SEC teams win the CWS every season........NOT

Prediction - Fungo is picking LSU over Ohio State

Lets see the #1 and #2 teams lost. So they did not deserve to be in the championship game. #3 gets in thats getting that one right. But why is LSU in if they were not even ranked #4 before this weekend? Missouri is ranked #1 and loses its last game of the year. But they dont even make a BCS bowl game. Kansas which lost to Missouri gets a BCS bowl game ahead of Missouri. Why is LSU more deserving of playing for a NC over Oklahoma or USC? I can see them being ahead of Va Tech since they pounded them. But Oklahoma won the Big 12 , pounded the #1 ranked team in the country on the last day of the season. USC won the PAC-10 and was probaly the most impressive team in the nation the last few weeks of the season. In College baseball it is decided on the field. In College basketball the best teams get in every year. They play for the championship. Now Ohio State gets to go to La to play LSU in what amounts to a home game for the Tigers. USC and Oklahoma deserve an opportunity just as much as LSU does.

Illinois gets a BCS game over Missouri? I guess the Rose Bowl wanted to keep that Pac 10 Big 10 thing going. Until there is a playoff I will continue to see it as nothing more than a voted championship.

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Illinois gets a BCS game over Missouri? I guess the Rose Bowl wanted to keep that Pac 10 Big 10 thing going. Until there is a playoff I will continue to see it as nothing more than a voted championship.

The Rose Bowl gets the conference champion from the PAC 10 and the Big 10. If the conference winner goes to the BCS championship a la Ohio State, the second place team goes. Most bowl games have specific conference commitments with caveats for the BCS Championship game.

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Originally posted by RJM:

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Illinois gets a BCS game over Missouri? I guess the Rose Bowl wanted to keep that Pac 10 Big 10 thing going. Until there is a playoff I will continue to see it as nothing more than a voted championship.

The Rose Bowl gets the conference champion from the PAC 10 and the Big 10. If the conference winner goes to the BCS championship a la Ohio State, the second place team goes.

According to the ESPN Selection show the Rose Bowl could have selected someone other than a Big 10 school to play USC.

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According to the ESPN Selection show the Rose Bowl could have selected someone other than a Big 10 school to play USC.

not doubting they said that, but am doubting it's correct

They do not have to take a Big 10 team anymore. They can take a higher ranked BCS team. They chose Ill in order to maintain tradition.

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do not have to take a Big 10 team

you are correct, however the Illini made it an easy choice with their #14 bcs rank over Missouri at #17

I'm glad they took a Big-10 team (Illinois). I like the tradition. Really ticked me off a few years ago when they took Texas over Cal (2005 versus Michigan). I think the Rose Bowl heard that message from the fans loud and clear.

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...you are correct, however the Illini made it an easy choice with their #14 bcs rank over Missouri at #17

But as the Rose Bowl is the most prestigious of the bowls, it was thought that they may take Georgia. Don't think Missouri was in the mix.

I could only speculate on reasoning, but the one thing that jumps out at me is that the top 4 ranked teams won their conferences.

How they paired them up after that is beyond me. Seems to me Va. Tech could've played UGA or Missouri before they would match up with Kansas. I thought the idea was to have a 1 vs. 2 game, a 3 vs. 4 game, etc. So how come we end up with 3 vs. 8?

not a good year for being able to make advance travel plans

why did Missouri drop like a lead balloon to #17?

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USC and Oklahoma deserve an opportunity just as much as LSU does.

USC was one of the top 2 or 3 teams at the end of the season when their QB returned...not a doubt in my mind about that. However, they don't deserve to be there once they lost to the Trees. That disqualified them!

RJM is right....Odds are very slim there will ever be a playoff in college football.......And, it certainly won't be anytime soon, if ever....

The BCS is a money pit for the big schools....They would never give up that money tree.....Never.....

Coach May-right on! This whole BS selection has been a joke since its inception.

Let's see....since the idea is to use polls and computers to determine which 2 teams will be ranked 1 and 2 at the end of the regular season so they will be matched up in a
"National Championship Game" and then SETTLE it on the field.....Haven't they already made the determination which team is number 1??? Haven't they already used the polls and computers to pick a number 1? Haven't they done that for 13 straight weeks?

Haven't they been wrong for most of those weeks?

Since they now feel Ohio State is the number 1 team in the country why do they even have to play one more game? If they can pick the top 2 obviously they can pick the top 1 and then not even bother with ONE FINAL GAME.

If the BCS is such a wonderful thing shouldn't it apply to all college championships---just let the computers and polls pick the 1 and 2 teams in all sports and let them play just one final game.

What's that? Tradition? Bowl Games? BS-tradition went out the window a long time ago.

The vast majority of college football fans want a playoff system and these BCS people know it but as long as the networks keep paying the big bucks for the television rights
to broadcast these meaningless bowl games there will be no playoff system.

Seems simple to me-use the bowl games for the playoffs and alternate them for the championship every year-like they do now.


BTW how much money would you all be willing to bet on LSU over Oklahoma or USC or Georgia? Or even Arizona State or Kansas or Hawaii for that matter. If it's not a whole lot then I think you get my point. Any one of those teams could be in the title game and
come out a winner.

Bottom line-why not settle it on the field/arena like it's done in all the other sports?

Or don't play at all.

UVA to the Gator bowl 8 ACC teams taken yeah baby

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What's that? Tradition? Bowl Games? BS-tradition went out the window a long time ago.

Moc1 - You are absolutely right!

But...unfortunately, we are stuck in the "middle" right now. We don't have a real playoff system, yet we don't have the traditional bowls either.

So as long as we're stuck in the middle, I'm all for maintaining the "tradition" of the Rose Bowl and keep it to the Big10/Pac10. Its special and its the way its supposed to be.

When they finally move to a playoff system, I'll be fine with it, but for now while there's still no real national championship...keep all the tradition you can in the dang thing. I applaud the Rose Bowl for taking Illinois.

justbaseball-my "tradition"remark wasn't in response to your post-I'm a slow typist so I had not even read yours yet. I'm with you on tradition as well but when the BCS supporters use tradition as the reason for keeping the status quo I have to laugh-they've already done away with it.

Money money money.........The BCS controls the money and the athletic directors want their money......

Just like a politician and a lobbyist.....What's right goes out the window and the pockets get filled.......

No problem Moc1. Just wanted to explain myself.

On behalf of my beloved Hokies, I'm thrilled with a #3 BCS spot and an Orange Bowl berth, which I've always held as my favorite bowl-something about New Year's night, the last game, in a place that's obviously warm while we often have temperatures in the teens. Of course, this year, it's 3-4 days later...

LSU pounded us early no doubt, but down the stretch we had to beat Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, Florida State, UVA and Boston College, and did, so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out we're a greatly improved bunch. LSU absolutely crunched us, yet they later lost to an unranked school while the Hokies two losses were to two # 2 (at the time) teams. All that is argument fodder and nothing more.

If my eldest son spends as much time studying for exams as he spent reading every word on line about the BCS, trying to scheme how our Hokies could end up in the top 2, he'll pull a 4.0, no sweat.

Amen to those thankful that baseball has playoffs. The BCS is all about money, bowl money. (Hawaii will get more $$$ for their bowl than their entire 2007 budget for football.)

Go Hokies!

Having no dog in this hunt, I appreciate most of the match-ups, as they will be some great games. However, I do think that all the teams should at least play the same number of games, and a team cannot become a NC rival by virtue of NOT PLAYING! OSU sits back and waits while the top teams battle each other and remove them from a NC opportunity. That just doesn't seem fair. COngratulations to all the teams playing in the Bowl Games.

If you are truly a college football fan and actually watch the games all season long, there is no way yopu could advocate a playoff after the season that has just concluded. College football is the last sport where regular season games actually matter. Every Saturday there are several games with huge implications...compelling matchups where a win matters.
If you institute a playoff, this all goes out the window.
What is the actual purpose of a playoff? Is it to crown the best team champion? Best team when? How many teams will be in your playoff?
Frankly, I could care less about the national champ....I care about watching great games and the BCS will deliver that again this bowl season, and college football delivers it every Saturday.
I do predict that an "and one" game will be added to semi-satisfy the playoff advocates, and I supoort that idea.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bee>:
I thought it was a fascinating finish ... the 2 top ranked teams who were a "lock" lost focus & didn't take care of business (one spanked by a 28 pt underdog )

not sure why you'd want to reward the top 2 teams who now have 2 losses (each) by pretending they don't
QUOTE]

Come on Bee, Ohio State played an incredibly weak non-conference schedule, went through a down Big Ten schedule, didn't have to play in a conference championship game and has sat around and down nothing while other teams have had to play additional tough games.

I don't have an axe to grind with OSU, just saying USC and OU both have as much right to claim a spot in the Sugar Bowl as OSU.

There's no good reason for a 5 week bye. I believe you could take the top eight teams -16 would work too! - seed them accordingly (records, polls & sos) and then have them play off to a true championship. Take the BCS conference champs and add at-large teams to get to 8 or 16. I would suggest only one team from each conference to maintain the importance of regular season. If you don't win your own conference you have no right to be in the mix for a NC.

quote:

Originally posted by spizzlepop:
There's no good reason for a 5 week bye. I believe you could take the top eight teams -16 would work too! - seed them accordingly (records, polls & sos) and then have them play off to a true championship. Take the BCS conference champs and add at-large teams to get to 8 or 16. I would suggest only one team from each conference to maintain the importance of regular season. If you don't win your own conference you have no right to be in the mix for a NC.

I don't really think the reason the powers that be don't want a playoff is money. I think a tourney of the conference champs would make tons of money! They just don't want to share with other conferences. I am against a playoff system because it is FOOTBALL, not baseball, basketball, tennis, or even golf! It's FOOTBALL! There is a reason they only play 12 or 13 games. Football is a dangerous sport and people get hurt in EVERY game. If you are a lottery pick, do you want to play 3 or 4 more games to MAYBE win a national title??? I wouldn't! By the time the title game was played the two teams may be totally different teams than when the playoff started.


Now, no way LSU or Ohio State should be in the Championship game! LSU lost twice to teams not in the top 10 and when was the last time a team lost two games and was in the CHAMPIONSHIP game??? Ohio State didn't even play a team that was ranked above 20th win they played them! I would rather see Oklahoma, Georgia, Va. Tech, or even Hawaii. I would rather have them all play conference championships and have the computer decide which was the strongest conference and the winner of that conference would be national champions. More incentive to play stronger non-conference games.

The BCS is ridiculous and a travesty to sports in general. At no time is it ever decided on the field and the regular season actually means so little to MOST (not all but most) teams.

I would say about 95% of the teams in the nation play their first game of the season knowing they have NO CHANCE at all to play in a national championship. If you are not in the SEC, Big East, Big 10, ACC, Big 12 and Pac 10 you have no chance to play for it. That is wrong.

The arugments to keep the bowls make no real sense if you think about it either.

1. The regular season wouldn't matter because of the playoffs.

That is so untrue because it would allow a team like a VA Tech to improve and get better and give them a chance at the end. They got crushed by LSU because they were not very good at that time. They got better and won their conference. But since LSU beat them they had no chance regardless of what happened in the regular season. What is the purpose of them continuing to play? Hawaii could have played a tougher non conference schedule and went undefeated but they still wouldn't made the championship game (same with Boise St last year).

2. Players would miss too much school over with playoffs

Not true because the majority of the playoffs would be after the semester ends during Christmas Break. The other levels - D IAA; DII; DIII; NAIA - all have tournaments and missing class is not a problem for them. Plus they don't have the budgets like the DI schools who can afford to make those trips.

3. Bowls would lose too much money

Has anyone even studied how much money could be made from a playoff? If it's done correctly a tournament would probably (my opinion - no facts) make more money. It's what the majority of the people want.

4. Tradition of the bowls

Keep them. Let the BCS bowls have the quarterfinal, semifinal and championship game to put on and rotate them. Also, if you don't make the tournament keep the other bowls for those teams. We don't have to get rid of the Insight.com bowl (ton of tradition there) because we have a playoff. Chances are they will probably still have the same teams with or without the playoffs. Bowls like this get the 7 - 5 teams. Tournament games on Saturday and Bowl games on Wednesday. Think of the money for that.

Problems with the BCS

1. People who are not on the field determine the outcome. Players have almost no say in who determines the teams in the NC game. It's sportswriters - guys who probably never played the game past high school are saying who is perfect for the NC game. Yesterday while watching all the coverage the talking heads (some former players which amazed me) said WVU and Mizzu should have lost because they did not deserve to be the 1 and 2 teams in the nation. OK that's fine but don't turn around and say Oklahoma deserves a chance because they beat the #1 team in the nation. If they weren't good enough to start with then they shouldn't be considered as evidence of a quality win.

2. The losses don't have the same effect for all teams. Kansas got screwed quite a bit to be honest. First I don't believe they deserve to be in the NC game and wouldn't make it there if there was a playoff BUT because they lost the last game of the season they have no chance. OSU gets in with a loss because it came several weeks before. They had a chance to pick up a win to improve their situation. Kansas didn't. So now you reward one team who lost early and punish a team who lost late and punish another because it got pounded early and give them no chance (VA Tech). Would Boise St and Hawaii be given the same consideration if they lost the 1st or 2nd game of the season like OSU? No - they would have dropped out and never been heard from again.

4. What good are the polls if they are going to put Georgia ahead of LSU although GA didn't make the conference championship? For a couple of weeks they are saying GA is a better team than LSU but when it comes time to pick a team it's LSU because they got to the conference championship. So what happened in the past two weeks? What would have happened if they had played - Georgia hot and LSU struggling a little bit?

5. Conferences are not equal and you can't judge team A beat team B and then lost to team C because team E beat team A etc... The SEC is the best conference in the nation. The Big East, Big 12 and Pac 10 are about the same. The ACC and Big 10 are the weakest of the major conferences. The others - MAC, C-USA, et al - are the lowest. You can't compare who won what based on non - conference games. It's not very accurate.

6. Parity has eliminated the major conferences strong hold on college football. It's going to sound like I am going to contradict myself with what I put in #5 but that was for the conferences and this one is about individual teams. With the reduction of schlarships in CFB and the talent level rising those kids have to find a place to play. That is why you see an emergence in teams like Hawaii and Boise St and others. They are getting better players and becoming better teams. With that you are going to find more seasons of "upsets" like this year. Give Boise St or Hawaii a chance in a playoff and it may happen.

Lastly, I would rather us argue over who should be the 16th best team in the playoffs than argue over who should be THE BEST team in the nation.

I could go on (although I have went too far already) but it's a shame football is the way it is.

I do not know much about the BCS selection, some makes sense to me and some doesn't.

It's about $$ and I don't see that as a bad thing.

I do beleive in a NC with a playoff, but to suggest that all other bowls be emliminated I do not agree with. These bowl games bring much needed $$ to our economy and the venues selected profit from them. A few years ago Clemson won the Peach bowl, which resulted in lots of $$, which meant beautiful fitness center improvements, new locker rooms for the baseball team (not to mention a complete overhaul of the football locker room). This enhances recruiting.

For those of you whose sons attend and play baseball at any school participating in bowl games, your sons bb program will be enhanced from the money awarded to the school for participation, win or lose. So IMO, play as many bowl games as the names you can make up, it only helps everyone financially in the end.

JMO.

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by tyco: Come on Bee, Ohio State played an incredibly weak non-conference schedule, went through a down Big Ten schedule, didn't have to play in a conference championship game and has sat around and down nothing while other teams have had to play additional tough games

what's a down yr in the Big 10?? 7 bowl berths??


you have some valid points regarding their schedule .. allow me to offer "the rest of the story"

1) I do agree - their weak non-conf schedule did NOT help them prepare for the tuff part of their season (it hurt them .. NOT helped them)

2) BUT - - like the rap GT Baseball's Danny Hall gets for scheduling ALL DI baseball programs in Georgia he's actually sharing some "luv" (gate/facilities/hospitality) with them, Tressel is in the position to do the same.
Tressel scheduled several Ohio DI's & his DI-AA former team. That "luv" he shared was 5 yrs budget for some, along with hospitality and playing in the "shoe".
He seems more focused on helping his sport in the region (except the state up north) than bowing to media critics.



please cut him some slack as a call from him could bring many of YOUR coaches back home to the "shoe" w/a raise (Stoops, etc)

How does OSU get into the National Championship game without playing? How does LSU get into the National Championship game with 2 losses? Why doesn't Hawaii who is undefeated not get into the National Championship? Why should Kansas with one loss be ranked lower than multiple teams with more than one loss? If they are ranked lower, then why do they get a BCS bowl and a team ranked above them does not?

This makes no sense. They need to install a playoff. Make it conference champions, make it a certain number of wins, whatever.

Let me give you the IHSA State Playoff system for football..

There are 8 classes. They take the best 256 teams in the state and then divide the classes starting at the top with the largest (enrollment) 32, next 32, on down.

To qualify, a team must have at least 5 wins. If you win your conference (and there are at least 6 teams I believe in the conference) then you get an automatic bid. 5-4 teams are chosen by playoff points. A team earns playoff points by adding the wins of the team's opponents. If there is a tie when they are close to filling the spots, then they go to the number of wins a team's opponents have in the games that the team won.

A system similar to this would work at a national level.

Somebody mentioned the risk factor of the game of football. It's interesting that it's a risk for a DI-A player to play 15-16 games, but not for a DI-AA, DII, DIII, high school, or the NFL!??! Maybe NCAA needs to cut out some games.

Oh right, that won't work.. money talks-- not common sense.

Should be Virginia Tech and Hawaii in the Championship game.

OSU is the biggest joke. I'm a Big 11 fan, but OSU just got smoked by Illinois a couple of weeks ago.

Mizzou gets the "Biggest Choke of the Year" Award.

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Mizzou gets the "Biggest Choke of the Year" Award.

Missouri lost out but I'm not sure they choked. A lot of people didn't think they would beat Oklahoma. Oklahoma had already beaten them once this year putting up 41 points.

First of all I think Ohio State was very smart in the way they scheduled this year. They knew that they had a couple of games in conference that they were going to be challenged in. They scheduled a weaker non conf schedule most at home. They now only have to win one of two vs Ill and Mich and they are in a great posistion. If they win both they assure themselves of playing in the NC game.

What is the incentive for going out and playing a very tough non conf schedule for someone like Ohio State? To be honest with you if I were the coach at USC or LSU etc my non conference schedule would be loaded with teams that I know I can easily beat. I already know I am going to have a tough enough time beating the teams in my conference.

As far as Hawaii and Kansas I love these teams. They play hard and they play an exciting brand of football. But who did Hawaii and Kansas beat this year? Does anyone think for one minute if Hawaii and Kansas were in the SEC or the PAC-10 they would have the records they have? Hawaii is undefeated. But who did they defeat? Go out in non conf Hawaii and play some big boys , beat them and then you have a legit gripe. As long as you beat up on the kind of schedule you play it aint gonna happen. Its one thing to gear up for the big game against Boise at home and a whole different story to play Auburn , Georgia , Tenn , Florida , Kentucky , teams like this week in and week out. The same could be said for the Pac 10. USC , Oklahoma , LSU , Ohio State. That should be the final four. Then the winners play it off.

I'm not going to be so naive as to put Hawaii in the championship game, but since they've been taking so much heat for their SOS I'd like to point out a couple things on which folks may be unaware. First, they had Michigan State inked to a early non-conference tilt this year and MS bought out the game. And yes, I'd love to hear MS's side of the story.
Also, Hawaii AD Herman Frazier reportedly begged Michigan to allow UH to buy out App. State so the Warriors could open this season at the Big House. I guess that didn't turn out so well for Big Blue did it?
Hawaii is a very talented team that plays the game REAL hard. They sure are a lot of fun to watch. And be careful Bulldogs, that Aloha spirit only goes so far.

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For those of you whose sons attend and play baseball at any school participating in bowl games, your sons bb program will be enhanced from the money awarded to the school for participation, win or lose. So IMO, play as many bowl games as the names you can make up, it only helps everyone financially in the end.

Yes TPM, 4 mill plus will do a lot of good in Manoa in the next few years. Mahalo BCS

My son recently visited the bb facilities at UF, 4 years after he first visited.

He told me words could not describe the improvements made to the bb locker room, offices and "game room", gym, etc. It was a players dream in other words (his) "sic".

Compliments of football and basketball championships.