Beach 4/16-20

how'd FC do?

Cox 15 Green Run 0
Killen with the win. Green Run has a lot of work ahead of them but it looks like the new coach has them on the right path

Update: Princess Anne HS 2, Bayside 1. Not much offense here but very nice pitching by Sam Burge (PA) and Bussey (BS). Bayside had a chance in the 7th with two on. Leo Nieto came in and rolled a GB to 2B for the 3rd out getting the save.

Any other scores?

Cox 17 Landstown 0

Profilet and Morriem each with a HR. Matt Chegin went 5 innings for his 2nd win. Landstown's starting pitcher deserved better...their defense kicked it around a lot. Otherwise it could've been a much better game.

Nice support of VT on Hokie Hope Day at the game. Landstown had orange and maroon ballons on the sideline and wore maroon and orange socks. Cox sported VT logos on their hats and wore orange and maroon belts.

Bussey vs. PA
IP- 7
Pitches- 103
BB- 1
Ks- 6
H- 4
E- 4
ER- 0

Mann was 0-3

Wow! Does anyone here think 103 pitches in a high school game from a high school pitcher is excessive?

It may be for some, for others it may not be. If you are in shape and you've been working long toss, running, bull pens, etc all winter and then you keep that workout pace and bull pen everyday between starts a HS player can do that pitch count. Bussey was good that day and not struggling. I think it is rare for any pitcher to go 7 innings and not have over 70 plus pitches. HS pitchers usually average 10 to 20 pitches per inning.

I think it is individualized to each person if they can go to higher pitch count.

I agree that each pitcher is a unique athlete. But with the horrendous rates of shoulder injuries, and Tommy John's in young atheletes, and the fact that many of these boys have not yet stopped growing- an 80-90 pitch count day is a long one, let alone 103 pitches. Lets not forget that the wear and tear is cumulative. No disrespect to pitcher Bussy intended.

i am still trying to figure out the dice K deal where he throws 250 plus pitches one day and more pitches the next... in high school.

how many pitches per outing is debatable but i believe that u have to operate on the belief or premise that just like every golfer who plays golf will eventually have lower back trouble--- so too will just about every pitcher have arm trouble at some point in his life. or every football player have some kind of ailment at some point of his life. the player is the final decider on staying in or coming out and he lives with the decisions he makes for the rest of his life.

most or all of the hs coaches do the right thing with regard to pitch counts.

Many of these high school boys, if not the majority, are under 18 years old. They are not really of the age where they think that far forward, or even think that they will ever have anything bad happen to them. In high school, I believe it is the coach who is responsible for his players well being, even if the player tells the coach he can do it. That is why they have rules about innings pitched in a time period in AAU. Making the choice to hazard an injury when you are playing AAA or major league ball is different than doing it as a 17 year old who hopes to play in college or pro ball. Just a thought.

quote:

Originally posted by impartialbut:
Wow! Does anyone here think 103 pitches in a high school game from a high school pitcher is excessive?

impartialbut- Saw you were quick to question Bayside allowing Bussey to throw 103 pitches...Just curious, but were you calling for CHC to pull Robert when his pitch count got up (112) against Greenbrier? How about against Flint Hill? Did you support bringing Morey back in to close the 2nd game of that DH after pitching 7 innings in the opener. Why the post questioning Bayside, but nothing about CHC?

My personal opinion is that for older, HS pitchers that are fully developed, 100 pitches is not a magic "cutoff" number. A good coach will monitor his pitcher closely and watch that his mechanics are not breaking down...often a sign that a pitcher is laboring and ready to come out. Some can obviously go a lot longer than others depending on their conditioning regimen.

103 pitches in 7 innings only amounts to about 15 pitches per inning. I instruct my teams that when we are facing a high school stud our goal is to have him throw more than 15 pitches every inning so we can run him out of the game before the 6th or 7th. Anytime a pitcher stays under 15 per inning i think that is pretty good. There are many other factors that come into play when counting pitches. How much rest was he on? When will he throw again? Was it warm outside and a nice day to throw? Was he losing velocity or still going strong? Now I would say that many pitches over 103 is excessive but for that situation 103 sounds good to me.
As a pitcher I hated running all summer, fall, and conditioning all winter just to come out of the game when I hit 70 pitches. I could have slept in and ate junk food and done that.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Taylor:

quote:

Originally posted by impartialbut:
Wow! Does anyone here think 103 pitches in a high school game from a high school pitcher is excessive?

impartialbut- Saw you were quick to question Bayside allowing Bussey to throw 103 pitches...Just curious, but were you calling for CHC to pull Robert when his pitch count got up (112) against Greenbrier? How about against Flint Hill? Did you support bringing Morey back in to close the 2nd game of that DH after pitching 7 innings in the opener. Why the post questioning Bayside, but nothing about CHC?

My personal opinion is that for older, HS pitchers that are fully developed, 100 pitches is not a magic "cutoff" number. A good coach will monitor his pitcher closely and watch that his mechanics are not breaking down...often a sign that a pitcher is laboring and ready to come out. Some can obviously go a lot longer than others depending on their conditioning regimen.

I don't make a habit of calling for a pitcher to be pulled in any game. I am just a fan. To answer your other questions, Morey has a history of wanting to pitch as long as the coach will let him espescially if the game is close. His parents seem to support that, although I don't know for sure. Certainly the coach supports it or he would make other descisions. I think that his usage is questionable and the up-side is not as valuable as the potential downside.
I thought that bringing him back in the second game was a tremendous gamble on everyone's part who let it happen. It worked out okay, but I would not have allowed that if he were my son. Different people, different choices. My post was simply to see if anyone else out there saw trends of pitchers going long in games and what the long term consequences might be. There is no other motive involved as to why I posted that about Bayside. The post before me had the pitch count- I responded.
Now a question for you- Do you see a relationship between the drastic increases in young ( read- High School and College) pitchers having Tommy John and shoulder surgeries over the past 10-15 years and anything in particular?

I would attribute it to kids throwing too hard too soon. If you examine the major leagues you will find it very difficult to name a hard throwing righty who has been in the league for several years who hasnt spent time on the disabled list for some major arm issues. Other than clemens and ryan (who are well known for there conditioning) i cant think of any.
Now on the other side lefties and guys who dont throw as hard seem to have far fewer injuries (moyer, maddux, remlinger) The little guys who throw hard (wagner, oswalt, pedro, etc.) seem to even have more difficulty battling injuries while men like schilling (big bodied) have less issues. Most injuries of any type stem from doing something (throwing in this case) too hard too fast and too soon.
You cant play a demanding throwing position (C, SS, 3B) and take 100 grounders everyday, then bullpen, then longtoss, then throw live, then go back to doing it all over again. No one seems to count those throws. Why do we only count the live throws made in a game.

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Chapel:
"All you can do is all you can do and all you can do is enough"

Billy,

Someone we know gave me that book to read when I was in HS.

So you think that kids have just started in the last few years throwing too hard too soon? I don't know. Maybe it is a combination of too hard, too much, too soon. It is my impression that it is the physics of the pitching mechanics that is involved in creating the forces of stress that cause injuries. Of course, add in the amount of force a hard thrower adds to these angles increases likelyhood of injury. I have heard and read that it is when the pitcher fatigues that he is much more likely to loose his "good mechanics" and slide into bad stress creating mechanics. So it seems logical that a large part of that formula CAN be pitches thrown. But it is also a host of other variables already mentioned in other posts. Weather, last outing, etc. I also have to say here that while it is the coaches responsiblity to monitor a pitcher and his physical status during a game and make a responsible call as to when to pull him, there are some who leave it up to the youngster if they tell him they can still pitch.

Redbird,
Yea I think he read that book to me to put me to sleep at night when I was a little kid.