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Care to share the assigned drills he worked on at home to improve the swing so greatly?
We did a lot of walk up tee work and angle tee work.
We concentrated on getting into the correct positions at our load (or negative move), and at bat lag.
I'm not being a smart *!@#$%, but it has taken me a long time to learn it is not the specific drills that are important. Making sure the hitter understands what we are trying to accomplish and the feel of the correct movement pattern is what's important. This way he understands the correct swing pattern and doesn't need me in the future.
We concentrated on getting into the correct positions at our load (or negative move), and at bat lag.
I'm not being a smart *!@#$%, but it has taken me a long time to learn it is not the specific drills that are important. Making sure the hitter understands what we are trying to accomplish and the feel of the correct movement pattern is what's important. This way he understands the correct swing pattern and doesn't need me in the future.
Right View Pro is the only way to teach hitting. Great work with hitter but I'm courious why he still has no stride after neg move to toe touch? You'll see rvp guys with several inches of stride prior to tt. Also why do guys teach kids to have front heal to sky like Bryce Harper used to do? None of the pro guys do it? Hitter has improved, not being critical just asking.
I agree, but it isn't a finished product. I'm still working to narrow his stance to aid in weight transfer - this will allow for the normal stride length. I believe that is further along in the process. Hitters have to learn the proper negative move, and hand path first. Then when you move to other issues, the learning curve is shortened tremendously.
Two questions: 1) on knob being pointed at the catcher, do you have to be concerned with bat wrap?
2) What video equipment have you found to be the best for filming players and reviewing it with them?
2) What video equipment have you found to be the best for filming players and reviewing it with them?
Please don't take this the wrong way....The definition of bat wrap has been misunderstood. 98% of MLB hitters have the knob pointed somewhere around the catchers feet or shin guards at toe touch. It is when the knob starts to point at the umpires facemask is when bat wrap comes into play. I haven't seen video of one MLB player that has the knob pointed into the opposite batters box at toe touch, and in many people's mind - that is not having bat wrap.
Rightview Pro has been hands down the best software for me to use. If it is a little pricey, filming and showing hitters compared to MLB hitters on your computer using Quicktime also works well. It is all about finding commonalities between most to all MLB hitters and showing you player where their movement pattern differs.
Rightview Pro has been hands down the best software for me to use. If it is a little pricey, filming and showing hitters compared to MLB hitters on your computer using Quicktime also works well. It is all about finding commonalities between most to all MLB hitters and showing you player where their movement pattern differs.
The video and examples used in this thread have been very impressive.
Great tool for allowing a hitter to visually see what he is being verbally asked to do.
Great tool for allowing a hitter to visually see what he is being verbally asked to do.
I really nice iPad app is Coach's Eye. I think it is about $5 in the app store. It has been very helpful in breaking down my son's pitching and hitting. It also has its own "John Madden telestrator" tools. We are able to review and identify miscues and some potentially bad habits frame by frame. I've also tried it on my golf swing, however, that is beyond repair! 
Isbell- why do you have to have "several inches" of stride? "All" the RVP guys do it? Who are "all" the RVP guys?
Apparently not Jim Edmonds, Nomar Garciaparra, or Albert Pujols, because they are no-stride guys... Apparently not Jeff Bagwell either, because he had a reverse-stride, away from the pitcher????
Keep in mind that the ground is the batter's energy source, not the stride. Not sure what your background is - but am guessing not physics, biomechanics or biophysics.....
Apparently not Jim Edmonds, Nomar Garciaparra, or Albert Pujols, because they are no-stride guys... Apparently not Jeff Bagwell either, because he had a reverse-stride, away from the pitcher????
Keep in mind that the ground is the batter's energy source, not the stride. Not sure what your background is - but am guessing not physics, biomechanics or biophysics.....
Pujols with stride.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...&v=fVZNFaFOQU4#t=42s
The ground provides energy???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...&v=fVZNFaFOQU4#t=42s
The ground provides energy???
quote:Originally posted by BJG:
Isbell- why do you have to have "several inches" of stride? "All" the RVP guys do it? Who are "all" the RVP guys?
Apparently not Jim Edmonds, Nomar Garciaparra, or Albert Pujols, because they are no-stride guys... Apparently not Jeff Bagwell either, because he had a reverse-stride, away from the pitcher????
Keep in mind that the ground is the batter's energy source, not the stride. Not sure what your background is - but am guessing not physics, biomechanics or biophysics.....
Pujols strides fwiw.
You are correct that the ground is the batters source of energy, just as it is for a post player to grab a rebound in basketball - just equal and opposite reaction. But the positive forward movement is how you use the ground as your source of power.
For a longer, better explanation, above was the cliffs:
When your front foot plants on the ground, the ground will push back into your foot with the same force your foot pushed into the ground. Take a toothpick or anything with a sharp tip and poke it into your finger, what you will see is the toothpick indented into the skin. The skin is pushing back into the toothpick with the same force—take the toothpick off your finger and you will see the skin push pack instantly. Newton's third law.
When the front foot pushes into the ground it causes the leg to stiffen/straighten (the ground is pushing back into the foot) - this causes the back side to rotate forward. If a batter were hitting on ice or suspended in the air it wouldn't matter if he were Miggy Cabrera, he wouldn't hit, because he couldn't use the ground.
The positive forward movement or stride creates more ground force aiding in back side rotation to sum up.
There is a reason big league hitters have a negative move to create a forceful positive move into foot plant.
BJG - you're correct, I do not have a degree in physics, biomechanics or biophysics and I'll be shocked if you do!! However I can see with my eyes that Pujols does have some stride after his neg move to toe touch. But I guess in your mind I would need to be an optometrist to mention that on this post. I didn't claim to be a hitting instructor but according to your post you must be a freakin scientist and hitting instructor. Not sure what your back ground is but I'll trust my three sources over anything you can bring to the table when it comes to hitting!! Go ahead and blast off on another post....can't wait to read it.
BJG - UPDATE, just watched youtube video of Pujols and Garciaparra hitting. Both have stride in their swing but wow you should have seen the "Several Inches" that Pujols has in his stride. Here let me help you - youtube search - Albert Pujols 200 fps 4
This should help! More to come.
This should help! More to come.
Sultan of Swat - Yes, the ground is the energy source.... if you don't think so, go outside and try and walk without pushing into earth....
RLB- Yes, there is such thing as equal and opposite reaction.... but if "a stride" is where the energy comes from and it is "equal and opposite energy" that helps in batspeed, then if a player strides forward, to the pitcher, (say foot going down to ground at 40 degree angle, yet fwd to pitcher) the the opposite energy would be going away from the pitcher at a 40 degree angle (which is true). So a batter can swings in the direction of pitcher, around his body, because the energy is going away from the pitcher? Doesn't hold up.
Yes, a basketball player pushes straight down to go straight up....
You say when the front foot "pushes" down into the ground, it causes the knee to lock?? Thats insane. I thought one was suppose to land softly on front toe?? And then you say that energy going backwards up the leg causes the abdominals/hips to rotate forward?? What???
I can't see your videos (becaus of pc I'm on) but I would be willing to bet that if you stop it when Pujol's front foot touches the ground, his front leg is still flexed... but a split-second later, once he slams his front HEEL into the ground you you see his front leg begin to straighten.
RLB, once the front HEEL drops, there is no more forward motion in a baseball swing, it's angular. The stride (which you don't need, but most use) is only linear movement in a swing, then it turns into angular. The more angualar momentum you conserve, the quicker your batspeed will be - and you can make it even quicker by doing other suttle things in a swing, i.e. keeping hands closer to your spine when you swing, keeping hands moving in a circular fashion during swing, etc
Stride is nothing more than a pre-swing movement. It breaks inertia and re-establishes a balance point for the batter to THEN put a balistic swing onto a ball in space.
RLB- Yes, there is such thing as equal and opposite reaction.... but if "a stride" is where the energy comes from and it is "equal and opposite energy" that helps in batspeed, then if a player strides forward, to the pitcher, (say foot going down to ground at 40 degree angle, yet fwd to pitcher) the the opposite energy would be going away from the pitcher at a 40 degree angle (which is true). So a batter can swings in the direction of pitcher, around his body, because the energy is going away from the pitcher? Doesn't hold up.
Yes, a basketball player pushes straight down to go straight up....
You say when the front foot "pushes" down into the ground, it causes the knee to lock?? Thats insane. I thought one was suppose to land softly on front toe?? And then you say that energy going backwards up the leg causes the abdominals/hips to rotate forward?? What???
I can't see your videos (becaus of pc I'm on) but I would be willing to bet that if you stop it when Pujol's front foot touches the ground, his front leg is still flexed... but a split-second later, once he slams his front HEEL into the ground you you see his front leg begin to straighten.
RLB, once the front HEEL drops, there is no more forward motion in a baseball swing, it's angular. The stride (which you don't need, but most use) is only linear movement in a swing, then it turns into angular. The more angualar momentum you conserve, the quicker your batspeed will be - and you can make it even quicker by doing other suttle things in a swing, i.e. keeping hands closer to your spine when you swing, keeping hands moving in a circular fashion during swing, etc
Stride is nothing more than a pre-swing movement. It breaks inertia and re-establishes a balance point for the batter to THEN put a balistic swing onto a ball in space.
Student of the Game said it best....
he tries to teach the correct mechanics, then makes sure the student understands where he should be/what his body should be doing during the swing, then when the player "goes into a slump", or whatever, he has the knowledge to get himself out a lot quicker than a kid who has no deep understanding of the swing....
Once a player, if he has the ability, has a quality swing, he shouldn't need "weekly" lessons... just re-enforcer lessons every so often - or confidence booster sessions every so often...
JMHO though...
he tries to teach the correct mechanics, then makes sure the student understands where he should be/what his body should be doing during the swing, then when the player "goes into a slump", or whatever, he has the knowledge to get himself out a lot quicker than a kid who has no deep understanding of the swing....
Once a player, if he has the ability, has a quality swing, he shouldn't need "weekly" lessons... just re-enforcer lessons every so often - or confidence booster sessions every so often...
JMHO though...
quote:Originally posted by BJG:
RLB- Yes, there is such thing as equal and opposite reaction.... but if "a stride" is where the energy comes from and it is "equal and opposite energy" that helps in batspeed, then if a player strides forward, to the pitcher, (say foot going down to ground at 40 degree angle, yet fwd to pitcher) the the opposite energy would be going away from the pitcher at a 40 degree angle (which is true). So a batter can swings in the direction of pitcher, around his body, because the energy is going away from the pitcher? Doesn't hold up.
The foot strikes the ground in a landing position even when going forward, the ground will push back into the front leg causing it to straighten, as it straightens the momentum of positive move will help or aid in the backside turning...sure the backside can turn without striding but the tendency is to spin.
Here is a slow motion link of Hamilton going into foot plant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIg4t5cSqrA
What to notice:
- At heel strike, energy goes through the lead leg causes extension.
- Now that the lead leg is at extension there is nowhere for the body to go because he has created a wall with his front side. Because of Hamilton's forward or positive move, his stride (he does have one), that back side will now snap forward, it has the inability to to spin toward first base because of his linear push toward the pitcher and he will not drift with his hips because of the ground force and wall created with his lead leg.
The foot plant created a push directly upward from where he landed, not backward.
quote:Yes, a basketball player pushes straight down to go straight up....
Correct, and his legs will be at full extension at take off.
quote:You say when the front foot "pushes" down into the ground, it causes the knee to lock?? Thats insane. I thought one was suppose to land softly on front toe?? And then you say that energy going backwards up the leg causes the abdominals/hips to rotate forward?? What???
You do land athletic, knees slightly flexed. I never said you didn't. The forward/positive move combined with the ground creating the front side wall causes the lead leg to straighten. As the leg straightens the hips will rotate forward. If the leg stays soft the hip will have less rotation and the upper body will do more of the work. I am sure you agree with this, if you don't then I don't really know what to tell you.
quote:I can't see your videos (becaus of pc I'm on) but I would be willing to bet that if you stop it when Pujol's front foot touches the ground, his front leg is still flexed... but a split-second later, once he slams his front HEEL into the ground you you see his front leg begin to straighten.
Is this directed at me or the person that posted the video? I already understand this concept. I am explaining to you biomechanically what is actually happening during this process is all and for some reason you are arguing. Very odd.
quote:RLB, once the front HEEL drops, there is no more forward motion in a baseball swing, it's angular.
Already understand this.
quote:The stride (which you don't need, but most use) is only linear movement in a swing, then it turns into angular. The more angualar momentum you conserve, the quicker your batspeed will be - and you can make it even quicker by doing other suttle things in a swing, i.e. keeping hands closer to your spine when you swing, keeping hands moving in a circular fashion during swing, etc
You are correct about it being linear movement. I have been responding to this as I read it and I already touched on this above and you are correct about angular momentum as well but you are incorrect about the stride. Big league hitters increase their linear momentum with their stride, after all angular momentum is the rotation analog (angular acceleration of a rigid object around an axis) of linear momentum.
quote:Stride is nothing more than a pre-swing movement. It breaks inertia and re-establishes a balance point for the batter to THEN put a balistic swing onto a ball in space.
I will stop with the science behind it and ask the obvious question...if stride is pointless then why do 99% of all elite hitters stride? You don't even have to respond to anything else I said because we actually agree on most stuff (I think you were arguing with stuff just to argue before when you really actually agree with me) but we just disagree on stride.
quote:Originally posted by BJG:
but if "a stride" is where the energy comes from and it is "equal and opposite energy" that helps in batspeed, then if a player strides forward, to the pitcher, (say foot going down to ground at 40 degree angle, yet fwd to pitcher) the the opposite energy would be going away from the pitcher at a 40 degree angle (which is true).
Can you tell me which direction the front hip goes after toe touch? Toward the pitcher? Or away from the pitcher?
RLB- in your post hamilton video comments, you said: "at heel strike" - notice thats what I said... even capitalized "heel" so it would stand out.
You're putting the cart before the horse... the hips begin to rotate, causing the front leg to become rigid as energy turn angular... NOT the other way around... stand up and take a batters stance. Now lift and drop your front heel as much as you want, your hips will never open unless you engage your abdominals.
As far as you believing hitters increase their LINEAR MOMENTUM with a stride to the pitcher (and it's a "must", etc... then explain Jeff Bagwell doing his reverse stride and having more power than 85% of everyone that's ever played the game......?
Linear "weight transfer" to the front leg is helpful in developing inline energy for some athletic movements such as pushing a shot or medicine ball because neither is intended to have a circular trajectory. Boxers stride and transfer their weight forward as they deliver a blow straight out to an opponent's mid-section. Average hitters also use similar mechanics as they attempt to accelerate the bat head (in an arc) by transferring their weight. But linear mechanics are inherently inefficient in developing angular velocities.
The power source of the great hitters is derived from "rotational forces around a stationary axis." Those forces are started by muscles that act on the hip bone -abdominals... stationary axis = spine.
Hips cant rotate without BOTH legs working together in opposite directions.
RLB- 99% of MLB hitters stride... doubtful it's that high, but okay. So then I could say 99% of MLB hitters have different stride lengths - so why can some generate more bat speed than others, even though their stride length is greater?? Are you saying that the longer stride = more bat speed? Doubful because Bagwell went backwards...
Sultan- after front toe touch, the front hip is still the same distance from pitcher. BUT, once the hitter initiates heel drop (initiating swing), hips begin to rotate (angular motion) so yes, front hip rotates counter clockwise around the batters spine - but in your same thought process, the back hip rotates counter clockwise closer to pitcher... so....???
You're putting the cart before the horse... the hips begin to rotate, causing the front leg to become rigid as energy turn angular... NOT the other way around... stand up and take a batters stance. Now lift and drop your front heel as much as you want, your hips will never open unless you engage your abdominals.
As far as you believing hitters increase their LINEAR MOMENTUM with a stride to the pitcher (and it's a "must", etc... then explain Jeff Bagwell doing his reverse stride and having more power than 85% of everyone that's ever played the game......?
Linear "weight transfer" to the front leg is helpful in developing inline energy for some athletic movements such as pushing a shot or medicine ball because neither is intended to have a circular trajectory. Boxers stride and transfer their weight forward as they deliver a blow straight out to an opponent's mid-section. Average hitters also use similar mechanics as they attempt to accelerate the bat head (in an arc) by transferring their weight. But linear mechanics are inherently inefficient in developing angular velocities.
The power source of the great hitters is derived from "rotational forces around a stationary axis." Those forces are started by muscles that act on the hip bone -abdominals... stationary axis = spine.
Hips cant rotate without BOTH legs working together in opposite directions.
RLB- 99% of MLB hitters stride... doubtful it's that high, but okay. So then I could say 99% of MLB hitters have different stride lengths - so why can some generate more bat speed than others, even though their stride length is greater?? Are you saying that the longer stride = more bat speed? Doubful because Bagwell went backwards...
Sultan- after front toe touch, the front hip is still the same distance from pitcher. BUT, once the hitter initiates heel drop (initiating swing), hips begin to rotate (angular motion) so yes, front hip rotates counter clockwise around the batters spine - but in your same thought process, the back hip rotates counter clockwise closer to pitcher... so....???
quote:Originally posted by BJG:
RLB- 99% of MLB hitters stride... doubtful it's that high, but okay. So then I could say 99% of MLB hitters have different stride lengths - so why can some generate more bat speed than others, even though their stride length is greater?? Are you saying that the longer stride = more bat speed? Doubful because Bagwell went backwards...
I won't bother wasting my time further engaging in conversation with you, I mean I ask you a simple question and you in return put words in my mouth, make ignorant comparisons using anomalies and, well, post the above paragraph without ever answering the original, and very simple question asked. Oh well, take care.
99% of hitters probably stride because it is what they were taught growing up by someone - prob a dad...
what a stride does is that it breaks the body at rest (enertia) and reestablishes the balance point for which the batter can put a quality swing on a pitch. Is forward stride bad? Nope. Is it needed? Nope.
1.) So..... now, if the stride to the pitcher is a must for batspeed, then explain no-stride guys and Jeff Bagwells reverse stride - and how Bagwell created so much bat speed while stepping AWAY from the pitcher???
2.) So let me ask you, do you think the linear momentum of the stride, is a must, and helps in generating the angular velocity needed to create +batspeed?
3.) Do you agree that you can't open your hips without using both legs? Or do you believe it is that "equal/opposite engery" from the toe touch and heel strike running back up front leg that opens hips- once front leg straightens?? Can't be both...
what a stride does is that it breaks the body at rest (enertia) and reestablishes the balance point for which the batter can put a quality swing on a pitch. Is forward stride bad? Nope. Is it needed? Nope.
1.) So..... now, if the stride to the pitcher is a must for batspeed, then explain no-stride guys and Jeff Bagwells reverse stride - and how Bagwell created so much bat speed while stepping AWAY from the pitcher???
2.) So let me ask you, do you think the linear momentum of the stride, is a must, and helps in generating the angular velocity needed to create +batspeed?
3.) Do you agree that you can't open your hips without using both legs? Or do you believe it is that "equal/opposite engery" from the toe touch and heel strike running back up front leg that opens hips- once front leg straightens?? Can't be both...
Bagwell is the exception. I don't think major league hitters stride because of DAD.
quote:Originally posted by BJG:
Keep in mind that the ground is the batter's energy source, not the stride. Not sure what your background is - but am guessing not physics, biomechanics or biophysics.....
AWESOME!...so if you put the prefix "bio" in front of it, then an inertial reaction force violates the laws of energy conservation, and becomes an actual energy source!!!
This is some scientifically breakthrough stuff, my bio-astute scholarly man. You and I need to go into business together, harvesting the untapped bio-energy of inertial reaction forces.
I gotta get me some of that "background" you're talking about...