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Best College Programs in Illinois

R RRF8100+ posts
I realize that this topic has been discussed numerous times in this forum, but there are still several kids looking to lock in with schools this time of year. Please feel free to rank D1, D2, D3, NAIA, and JUCO and give a reason. Please share your knowledge/experience as it could be a great help to the 2010 class and younger. If you are tired of this topic I apologize but it is one that I feel should always be revisted.
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B bballdad1954500+ posts
There is a great scene in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid. They are being chased by a posse and trying to figure out "who are those guys". Butch asks Sundance, "Who's the best Sheriff?" Sundance asked, "what do you mean, best? Toughest or easiest to bribe?"

Same with college baseball. Best in what way? Who will win the most? Best facilities? Best combo of acedemics and team? Best chance for your kid to play?

I don't think ranking colleges helps kids make a decision. So much depends on the kid's abilty, acedemics, goals, etc. Each family has to try to find the right fit for their kid. There are a lot of good choices in Illinois.
R RRF8100+ posts
bballdad1954 - Thanks for asking for clarification. I do realize that many factors enter a student's decision in attending college. This ranking is totally for the baseball program. This does not consider a player's opportunity to play. such as Baseball America or Collegiate Baseball. If you were writing for a baseball publication, such as Baseball America or Collegiate Baseball, how would you rank them per classification (D1, Juco, etc)and why.
R RRF8100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by soxnole:
My Take:

Best Conference and schedule
ISU,Illinois,NW,NIU,SIU and UIC
Best Coaching
NIU,SIU,UIC
Best chance to play
NW,SIU and NIU

Best advice if you are good enough:

Play in warm weather....there are many choices better than any in Illinos


Soxnole, I think that many of the Illinois players are good enough and could have played at schools outside of Illinois but they chose the Illinois school because they wanted/needed the scholarship to reduce their college costs. If a player goes outside of Illinois their scholarship would only cover the additional out of state tuition that they would be required to pay. This provides no or little monetary benefit to the player and his family.
TuzigootTuzigoot500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by soxnole:
My Take:

Best Conference and schedule
ISU,Illinois,NW,NIU,SIU and UIC
Best Coaching
NIU,SIU,UIC
Best chance to play
NW,SIU and NIU

Best advice if you are good enough:

Play in warm weather....there are many choices better than any in Illinos


Little chance for a collegiate baseball player at any level to get drafted. Little chance for that drafter player to play and stick in the bigs.

My best advise is to utilize baseball to get you to the best academic school possible. There are some real nice ones right here in Illinois.
S scoroMember
So as I read the RPI rankings, EIU is the top ranked baseball team in Illinois in 2009?
Their website says they had a player taken 48th overall, one in the 8th round and 1 in the 13th round.
They won their conference this year, went to the regionals last year.
Academically they are ranked 11th in the midwest.
Sounds like a pretty good program.
CPLZCPLZ1,000+ posts
Scoro,
To categorize anyone as having, "a pretty good program", there needs to be some history of achievement. EIU certainly had a good year, and the program seems on the rise, however...

They lost 3 top players to the draft, can those be replaced? We'll see.

They lost their top asst. coach/recruiting coordinator.

If they have near this level of success in several of the next 10 years, then yup, I'd qualify them as having a "pretty good program". Right now, they're off to a nice start.
W woodly100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CPLZ:
Scoro,
To categorize anyone as having, "a pretty good program", there needs to be some history of achievement. EIU certainly had a good year, and the program seems on the rise, however...

They lost 3 top players to the draft, can those be replaced? We'll see.

They lost their top asst. coach/recruiting coordinator.

If they have near this level of success in several of the next 10 years, then yup, I'd qualify them as having a "pretty good program". Right now, they're off to a nice start.

Sean Lyons did a tremendous job for EIU and will do a great job for Bradley Univ....
S soxnole1,000+ posts
RPI Rankings are all we have to compare programs general success but they do not speak to the myriad of issues confronting the prospective student athlete.

The RPI should be looked at over several years to determine the school's average rating and place in the pecking order. In that regard, EIU although on the rise would fall precipitously by comparison. This years average RPI of 167 for 9 programs says it all when considering there are about 300 D1 programs year to year.

Then:

Academics...U of I, Northwestern and Bradley far outshine the rest. However, maybe the student athlete in question wants a specific career choice or doesn't want to spend all his time in the library!?

Coaching...again the student athlete must look at whether or not the existing staff will be around for awhile. This is a definete issue in Illinois at most programs. At the top 10 or 20 programs the staffs are pretty consistent if not constant.

Facilities... can be brutal in Illinois. There isn't a facility in the state that can compare to the top programs. Many smaller programs around the country have signifigantly better facilities.

Budget...A real sleeper for student athletes that are being actively recruited. My son that played at ISU (40K Budget) was subject to 4 in a room while on the road and a never ending menu of Burger King and Pizza. Travel was a mini-bus or cheap charters that had a habit of breaking down.... My son at Florida State (300K+ Budget) always stayed at a Marriott or the like...2 to a room, wireless access and a breakfast buffet followed by a top notch restaurant for lunch and dinner! When traveling it was a private charter,commercial flight or sleeper accomodations for bus trips over 3 hours.
I would think that again, U of I, NW and Bradley spend a whole lot more than the other state schools while spending a whole lot less than the ACC,SEC etc.

Weather....SIU has slightly better weather than the rest in Illinois but if affordable, weather is a serious difference maker. Time on the field instead of the field house makes for a better and happier ballplayer.


Intangibles...expenses...dorm/living conditions....academic fit/degrees available....ratio of women to men...relatives living nearby....cultural differences etc. etc. etc.
R RRF8100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by soxnole:
"Boyds World"

Goes all the way back to 1997.

For instance:

Eastern was # 194 that year while ISU was # 88.

You may have to google it but it's there.

There is also a link @ [D1baseball.com]...easily the overall best info anywhere....[WarrenNolan.com] would be 2nd best.


Since I started this whole mess, I thought that I would add up some numbers. I went to Boyds World and calculated each team's 13 year average since 1997. I will also show the 2009 RPI so you can see how they have done recently. Some schools fluctuated more than others. Many schools changed coaches so take it for what it is worth. Thanks to Soxnole for pointing me in the right direction.

UofI 13 yr avg 104 2009 65
SIU 13 yr avg 128 2009 183
ISU 13 yr avg 137 2009 172
NU 13 yr avg 158 2009 215
EIU 13 yr avg 166 2009 61
BU 13 yr avg 179 2009 260
UIC 13 yr avg 181 2009 134
NIU 13 yr avg 206 2009 252
WIU 13 yr avg 252 2009 279

See this link for explanation of RPI:

http://www.boydsworld.com/baseball/rpi.doc
JKennedyJKennedy100+ posts
quote:
If a player goes outside of Illinois their scholarship would only cover the additional out of state tuition that they would be required to pay. This provides no or little monetary benefit to the player and his family.


Not exactly sure what you are trying to say here RR, but it sounds like a pretty broad statement that I am certain does not apply to every student athlete attending college out of state.

As far as the Illinois schools go, I think that Sean Lyons teaming up with Elvis Dominguez at Bradley should dramatically improve both the quality of the recruits and the level of coaching at Bradley.

Eastern had a fantastic season last year, with many making a valid argument that they should have made their regional.

Illinois State's 2009 recruiting class received honorable mention this year.

Just some of my thoughts on the three Illinois schools that have my attention for the upcoming seasons.
Last edited by JKennedy
R RRF8100+ posts
Obviously, I was only talking about public schools with the player only getting a partial scholarship. Private schools are typically the same cost regardless whether you are in state or not.

For example, these numbers taken from the collegeboard website.

University of Illinois
In State Tuition - $12,524
Out of State Tuition - $26,666
Room and Board - $9284

If an out of state player gets a 40% scholarship for tuition and room and board, it would be approximately the same as an in state student without a scholarship.

Of course the numbers will vary depending on the amount of the scholarship, but as you can see the out of state tuition negates a significant portion for public schools.
Last edited by RRF8
F fastball0910+ posts
A program on a big time rise and is turning into a great choice is SIU-Edwardsville. They have great field, maybe the best in field in Illinois if you ask me. They are building a new clubhouse that will be connected to the dugoutand field turf is in there near future rumor has it.

They are also in there second year in division 1 and were pretty competive last year. They had Illinois beat and lost 7-6 and Ohio State 11-10. If you ask me with the field they have and the warm weather with St.Louis being 10 minutes from campus. They could become a pretty good program if they aren't already.
S soxnole1,000+ posts
Pretty brutal numbers listed there for our state schools.

Considering that most of the top 100 are southern schools you would still think that a Big Ten or Missouri Valley representative could do better than that!

Not to mention that Illinois and the Big Ten is consistently over-rated. Ohio State got beat 37-6 in one regional game. Minnesota, which is the class of the Big 10 did play well in their regional but even if Illinois and Indiana are getting a little better, why can't they get a coach that can seriously recruit like Kent State or Louisville did?
If Rhode Island can schedule and compete with the best, why can't Illinois? If Boston College can upgrade in 3 years like they just did, why can't Northwestern?

11 Northern schools were in the top 100 last year and there is no reason why UConn, Rhode Island, BYU
and Kent State should out perform Illinois, NIU, ISU, SIU, UIC and NW.

They need to schedule somebody and spend a couple bucks! Money is tight in Conn, R.I and Ohio too.

Kudos to EIU. They are getting it done.
CPLZCPLZ1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by 2bagger:
Just a thought soxnole but maybe the problem is not the recruiting here but what they do with the rcruits when they get to the Illinois school programs.


Hear here!!!

It could be some of both, but certainly getting the recruits you get, coached up, is a large part of the equation.
S soxnole1,000+ posts
It was a game 4 for OSU and they were out of pitching.

One might say they were "out of pitching" on the way to the regional!

In 2 games VS an SEC and an ACC team they gave up 61 runs!!! (16 innings)

That is the difference between an over-rated Big 10 school and a true "top program" that knows to recruit pitching first and foremost.

Then again, what top pitcher wants to throw in 40 degree weather for more than half the season?

In any case this is what the northern schools are up against even when it is Ohio State!
CPLZCPLZ1,000+ posts
Soxnole,
There are examples on both sides of that equation. For some reason, the Big 10 really tailed off towards the end of the season in regards to the level of play. Pitchers like Alex Wimmers, who had been unhittable a month before, were suddenly mortal.

Army went down to the Austin Regional and put up 10 runs against the number one pitching staff in the whole country, in Texas home stadium against the pitcher most people considered Texas most talented, Taylor Jungmann. This is after Army sent ACC team BC, and southern team Texas State (who many thought should have hosted their own regional), packing. So the exception doesn't make the rule.

Is the Big 10 overrated? Sometimes. Are they underrated? I think Vanderbilt, ACC team and ranked #1 in the country, would say so, when Michigan beat them twice in the regional 2 years ago.

Using words like "true" top program are inflammatory and not an honest picture of the landscape.

quote:
Originally posted by soxnole:
Then again, what top pitcher wants to throw in 40 degree weather for more than half the season?

First one to jump to mind...Joba Chamberlain
Last edited by CPLZ
S soxnole1,000+ posts
CPLZ,

The bottom line is that your examples are the VERY rare exception.

There is NOT a true "top program" in the Big 10.

Inflammatory or not, it's a fact.

The RPI is not perfect but at the end of the season the Big Ten does not enter the top 40 often and the top 25 ever!

The Big Ten has not had the kind of success the Missouri Valley has had over the past 20 years. No WSU or Creighton.

Texas, UNC, LSU, Fullerton, Miami, Ga.Tech, FSU, ASU, UGA and Wichita State would be "top programs in my mind.
R Ratboy100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by soxnole:
That is the difference between an over-rated Big 10 school and a true "top program" that knows to recruit pitching first and foremost.


To be fair, you are an FSU guy ...

OSU also had a slew of pitchers get hurt along the way and had 2 of the best in NCAA last year (Wimmers and Hale) on their staff.

But, as you pointed out, that was game 4 after fighting through the consolation bracket of both the WS regional and the Big 10 tournament.

In my limited experience with that program, it seems that a lot of the feedback after the FSU game was that Coach Todd had issues handling a staff and keeping them healthy.
G gotwood4sale10,000+ posts
.



From some tree hugger blog known as COHO Ecovillage...

    Weather in Corvallis is mild throughout the year.

    Despite Oregon's reputation for rain, Corvallis has an annual rainfall of only forty inches--less than New York, Chicago and even Miami!

    Summer days are pleasantly warm, with an average maximum temperature of 80 degrees from July through August.

    On those rare days when the mercury climbs above 90 degrees, a cool breeze usually wafts in from the Pacific Ocean to cool things off before nightfall.

    Winter temperatures hover around the 40's-50's.

    Occasionally Corvallis will get a dusting of snow and it rarely lasts longer than a day.


GO BEAVS!


.
Last edited by gotwood4sale
S soxnole1,000+ posts
CPLZ,

In my opinion the MVC is a superior conference if only because Wichita State is so much more dominant over time than any Big 10 team.

The coach is top 10 all time. The program has won a NC in 88 and they have been in 3 of 11 SR's. Additionally Creighton, though weaker lately had great success in the 90's and has been pretty solid since.

The Big 10 was a truly great conference from 1950-67 but mostly irrelevant since. Though they have been about even since 2000, the MVC was light years ahead of the Big 10 in the 70's,80's and 90's.
CPLZCPLZ1,000+ posts
Soxnole,
That doesn't make the conference more dominant, only a team. Just because the Big10 had more SR appearances spread over more teams, doesn't mean they have the weaker conference. To the contrary, it would indicate more high level teams.

And citing 1988, a generation ago, is not germain to your point about a student having a better chance going to the WS by playing in the MVC now.
S soxnole1,000+ posts
IMO....

7 SR appearances total in 11 years (5 of them by 2 teams) by these Conferences tells the real sad story.

If you took the Shockers out of the MVC and put them in the Big 10 you would have to put OSU, Minnesota and Michigan in the MVC to compensate.

Wichita States program is so much better than any in the Big 10 that there IS NO comparison.

CPLZ, using your own "generation" theory, the Big 10 has been D1 irrelevant since at least 1970.

Wichita has barely missed a beat by comparison while Creighton has had much more to brag about since 1970 than the entire Big Ten.

In the end both conferences are middle muddles that have been blown by in recent years by Conferences from the south and west and even lately, the East! They both depend heavily on their top 2 or 3 teams to get any recognition at all. The one team with recognition that does come to the fore is the Shocker's.

The only way either conference (outside of WSU) will ever get back in the D1 limelight is if they move the season to summer. That would be fair but it's not going to happen.
Last edited by soxnole
TuzigootTuzigoot500+ posts
Below are 5-yr RPI averages by conference from www.warrennolan.com. The Mid-Con and Summit League I didn't put on the list as neither had 5 data points from the 2005 thru 2009 seasons.

I won't bore you with the detailed statistics. But if you'd grouped them by relative strength thru the Big 10 it would break down like this:

1 - 3
4
5 - 6
7 - 12

Wichita St. has dominated their conference, and has moved thru the regionals, supers and WS appearance more than any program in either the MVC or Big 10 conferences. But the assertion that the MVC is way ahead of the Big 10 from a conference standpoint is pie in the sky.

In God I trust, all others show me the data.

RANK, CONF, 5-YR AVE
1, SEC, .5702
2, ACC, .5678
3, BIG 12, .5669
4, PAC 10, .5519
5, CONF USA, .5396
6, BIG WEST, .5333
7, WEST COAST, .5189
8, SUN BELT, .5152
9, SOUTHERN, .5144
10, BIG EAST, .5141
11, MO VALLEY, .5128
12, BIG 10, .5089
13, COLONIAL ATH, .5030
14, ATL SUN, .5027
15, WEST ATH, .5007
16, BIG SOUTH, .4994
17, SOUTHLAND, .4973
18, MTN WEST, .4909
19, MID AMER, .4848
20, ATL 10, .4703
21, PATRIOT LEAGUE, .4693
22, OHIO VALLEY, .4643
23, AMER EAST, .4593
24, HORIZON, .4571
25, MACC, .4520
26, IVY, 4515
27, INDEPENDENT, .4418
28, NORTHEAST, .4406
29, SWAC, .4130
30, MEAC, .4105
Last edited by Tuzigoot

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