Best Pitch in Baseball - According to the Author

Interesting stuff. Son is still trying to improve and maximize curveball and has always relied on a good change. Hasn't attempted working on a splitter as yet that I know of. One question I had on the chart was why the 2-seam FB wasn't included?

It was, sinker.

 

 

Hey TPM don't call Soylent a Stinker....

 

Actually the problem with this is that kids will want to throw both of those pitches and they both are the hardest on the the arm/elbow. 

Hey I've been called worse... and by TPM on this board in fact! Ha, but all good.

 

Maybe I know even less about pitching than what little I thought I did, but I've always differentiated between a sinker and a 2 seamer. Happy to conduct my education out in the open here as long as I learn something... So is there literally no difference? My understanding goes something like this: a sinker is a 2-seam pitch, but not all 2-seamers are sinkers? Don't some 2-seamers break more side to side? Thought a sinker got into certain arm slot and wrist action to really get downward action... No? Spread the fingers further outward on the seams, now it's a splitter. Bring them inward and apply different finger pressure, it's a cutter. I'm getting tired-head already...

2 seamer with fingers at 12 o'clock at release then pronation will have less sink and only some tailing away action, whereas same pitch released with a slight release angle towards 11 o'clock (RHP) will tail away and sink...add a little more pressure to index finger and even more sink... Both are two seamers as TPM states.  

 

When I say tail away it depends on whether righty or lefty at plate but typical run on all 2 seamers towards the throwing arm side.

As with so many things related to pitching, there's no consensus. Some people, like TPM, contend they're the same thing (at least that's what the post implies).

 

Others, like this former MLB pitching coach, describe the difference this way: "A sinker is basically an exaggerated two-seamer with more sidespin."

 

 

Right, both are 2-seamers... but are both sinkers? A "straight" 12 o'clock 2-seam fastball is to me not really a sinker. Not meaning to split hairs, just checking my terminology/understanding. Son throws a straight 2-seamer a lot. He likes it because it has enough sideways movement to keep the ball off the sweet spot pretty effectively. I've been trying to encourage him to experiment with the angle at release to try to get downward movement. Have been reading a lot about this of late, and as JP points out... terminologies are not exact or consistent.

in my book both are 2 seamers, however some may argue they are different pitches altogether... I think since the difference is minor in how they are thrown, they fall in same category... The data from the OP, seems to be in agreement with calling them 2 seamers....

 

and  to answer your question, No they are not both necessarily sinkers....some do have more side run, and not much sink.

I am in agreement with the above.  Most people know a sinker is thrown using two seams and as stated  the pressure will determine the sink or the movement. A cutter is thrown using 4 seams and I believe a split finger is as well.

I didn't call anyone a stinker.  

BOF did.

If you read the article they state that the pitch-fx data is not accurate as far as the actual type of pitch(s) thrown as different pitches could be logged incorrectly....and yes I said that TPM called someone a stinker,(which she did not)  of course for a little fun word play. My apologies if it did not come out the way I intended.  

Back to the post....the one thing that I think is important to understand here is the big swing and miss pitches, or miss the sweet spot the most pitches, seem to be two pitches that "appear" to the hitter as fastballs.  If you look at the link, and more specifically the illustrations where they use green dots to show where the hitter was looking, versus where the ball wound up, you will see he was terribly fooled on the pitch.

 

IMO the most important aspect of this is how important it is to have an effective off speed pitch that is based on the FB....+ 2 seam sinkers, + sliders, and splitters are ALL thrown with deceptive FB arm speed.  Hitter sees FB for much of the pitch, only to be surprised the ball is gone when it gets to the plate.  You would see the change up with similar stats, only not as many pitchers throw a "great" change up with deceptive FB arm speed, as much as you see with the sliders / splitters.

 

IMO - its all about having a good FB to get ahead, then missing the bat with a great secondary pitch that looks like a FB until its too late....even works when you throw it back to back.

BOF - I appreciated your levity, fwiw. I try to learn from the banter and look past the bicker, though sometimes hard to resist returning some fire. Also appreciated the article and the discussion that followed. My original question was wondering if MLB pitchers throw 2-seam fast balls that aren't sinkers, since the chart only listed sinkers. It's a topic that son and I have been kicking around looking ahead to his upcoming HS season. Back foot sliders comments were helpful and reinforced what we've been talking about. I showed this to him last night as he happened to be returning from a pitching workout. As mentioned, son has always favored, throwing 2-seam fastball... and just as BFS described, he throws it with 12:00 ie no tilt. I've always encouraged him to mix in more four seamers but seeing lately that he should really experiment with his touch and grip on the 2-seam... feels as though there might be a lot of upside to developing that favorite pitch further. Anyway, hope I didn't sidetrack your post... it was well timed info for our purposes.

I have not read all of the posts but I know that TPM's son came up in the Cardinal organization where they preach and teach all of their pitchers to throw sinkers which   are mostly 2 seam FB's. If you profile most of the Cardinal pitchers they all throw hard breaking fastballs down in the zone. I'd say they have had pretty good success in bringing top talent up with this philosophy. This is a bit off topic but if you mix this in with balls that break down and out of the zone you can be pretty successful at any level. 

Since the exit of Dave  Duncan some of that philosophy has changed.
The sinker and 4 seam FB and a late college slider is essentially what got son almost a full scholarship to a D1 program as well as a second round pick in the draft.

If your son already feels comfortable throwing a two seamer FB, I do suggest encouraging him to experiment with what you are suggesting.  It certainly won't hurt.  Very few pitchers can actually throw one with heavy sink and movement.  It takes lots of practice.  Let me know if you have any questions in a pm.
BOF, I got it just don't know if anyone else did.