Better for HS pitching prospect's arm?

I would agree.  OF or 1b (if he has the body for 1b). But, this is without knowing more details or the make up of the roster.  Kudos to you for looking out for this young man's future.

It's sort of a quandary isn't it?

On one hand you want to protect his arm, which is the right thing to do as far as he is concerned.  On the other, do you want to put him above the team?  It's a delicate balance.

I think you will find coaches that will argue either side.

You can't just make it about the player's safety, if he is a key part of your team when he is off the mound.  I don't think that is fair to the rest of the players.  Even worse, if the other players think that is the case, it's going to cause issues chemistry wise.

At the same time I guess it's hard to ask the player to risk injury if he has a bright future...

Well, I'll just say I both envy your position, and don't envy your position.

What's better for your program (and the player) in the long run?  Making sure the guy gets drafted? Or him getting hurt making a long OF throw to win a game?

Seems to me there's some other factors to take into consideration. Fore example: Is he being used starting pitcher or a closer?  What kind of depth does the team have at pitching and at the positions?

It sounds like he's a starter and so certainly playing a position like SS (where one normally puts their best infielder) wouldn't be a good choice. 2nd base throws are shorter and often with a different throwing slot, so that might be worth considering if the infield is too weak without him. Being a starter, 3rd base can work, but I think that assignment would depend on how much he's been pitching.  If you got good pitching depth, maybe then he could play any of the positions and use his pitching skills for something like closing???  And maybe the caliber of your opposing team for a particular game may be a factor in your decision for the lineup?

I'm just throwing some ideas out here and you may have already given these things some consideration. 

FWIW, my son played 3rd in HS when he was not pitching. He is now a PO at the next level.  Just be smart about it, and the fact you are already thinking about it means you are. In doubleheaders he pitched the second game, the day after he pitched he took it easy on warm up throws between innings but even if he was not playing third he would have thrown some in his normal routine. Frankly I was more worried about him diving for a ball and landing on his shoulder then having to gun a throw but that can happen anywhere on the field.

What is his arm action like as a pitcher? Most likely outfield will allow him to better maintain his slot and tempo. Put the other kid at third. If he can play it, he will improve and if he can hit, he may also find a spot for himself somewhere at the next level. If the pitcher is a great hitter DH him if you need.

Good luck,

Ted

Doesn't matter. You control how much he throws in practice. So control it.

He could have more high stress throws from IF or OF depending on how the game goes. Games don't have a huge impact on arms typically, outside of catcher. 

Practice is where the "overuse" (for lack of a better term) where come from, so find a way to tweak it. 

He is a starting pitcher and my concern is if he throws a CG at 90 pitches on a Tuesday I wouldn't want him to play Third base on Thursday.  I would want him to get his normal preparation for his next start the following Tuesday.  He is one of my best hitters so he will be in the line up and he is a gamer, the kid wants to play and help his team win.  Tough to put a kid like that just as a DH when he can play the outfield well also,  All around good baseball player. 

But I can say that if he can't pitch that kills our chances at being competitive in the playoffs.

Tough call but I think for the kid's sake and ultimately the team because he is needed so largely as our ace, I think I know what I am doing now.

But would you feel better with him playing OF on Thursday?

Runner at 3b and he's camped under a deep fly and about put everything he's got into a throw? I feel worse about that than I do 127' across the diamond. (Not that I feel great about that 2 days after throwing 90.)

Lots of good stuff covered already.  For this particular player, if he is pegged as a good 3b, that would likely translate to a good 1b/DH.  Of course it depends on what other pieces you are working with.  I know you said no DH but the combination could be effective.  OF can be good too but lots of things to consider.  Is he the type who's arm always feels great or is it a bit finicky?  What is his typical recovery period?  Does he have an awareness of when he should and shouldn't let it rip or is he an all-out type?

As someone else mentioned, I would also make sure that his throws are managed carefully during practices.  That goes for all of your P's and if you run a fairly small roster like we do, that can be frustrating when you are trying to run situational drills at practice.  But proper arm care needs to be front and center for all players.

That's where my mind went too.  What is more stressful on player trying to protect an arm, playing 3B or playing OF? 

Then again if I really thought this kid's future was pitching, and my sole thought was keeping him healthy, I would think it would be better for him in the long run to have less potential for injury, which could best be accomplished by making him the DH. 

Maybe if he makes it big he will come back to talk to your future teams about how he was grateful to have a coach who thought of him as more than just a player.

My son P in HS and played OF. Next game after start he only DH. Sounds like this kid is good athlete and you want to use him

Don't chance an injury, make some others step up and contribute. 

You already know you can have your cake and eat too if you want to.

The question I think you are really asking is how well will you sleep if he blows out that arm by overextending it?

Probably a decent bet you won't have to go out to CF or SS while he is standing there with his arm across his chest.

BUT....if anything goes wrong with overdoing it you have to live with it.  Think of the possibility of seeing that kid hanging around your hometown banging nails getting fat drinking beer because he blew his arm out in a HS district game...whew.  I think that could be hard to do, especially if you had the care to think about it before you did it and went ahead anyway.

If I were that pitcher's dad, or a scout who believed he had potential, I'd tell you:

Your job as his HS coach is to leverage his talents to take the team as far as possible without putting him in a position that obviously increases the odds he'll injure his arm.

Which means: Be flexible and make smart decisions.

Best pitcher in son's conference played SS when he didn't pitch. Was also the team's best hitter. Has hit 90 mph with nasty curve. Early commit.  Though D1 team's website of his signing says two way player, I hear he will primarily play 3B (and not pitch) for team.

Yeah I think a good majority of HS teams in the country would be running out the SS/P combo with their best player if arm issues were of no concern.  Some pull it off with no issue.  Some pay for it later.  Some are not put in that position. 

It can become even a more difficult decision when it's not clear if the player's future is as a position player or P.

My 2016 son is in this exact situation for his HS team. Things that were suggested to him:  1) play no defense for 2 days after a pitching start, 2) do not make more than a modest number of infield throws during practice, and 3) adhere to an 85 pitch count limit.  The jury is still out for next spring, but this seems like a reasonable compromise. 

The team will suffer more if he can't pitch rather than not playing 3b.  I definitely don't want to be the reason his arm falls off.  His summer ball coach had him playing SS basically every time he didn't pitch and the effects are showing right now with a shoulder injury.  I wish summer ball had limits on the amount of pitches a kid can throw.  Summer ball pitchers shouldn't throw more than two innings.  This kid was throwing 80 something pitches and then playing SS in the next game.  Probably the reason he is hurting right now which is why I feel moving him to the outfield would be better in the spring.  Less throws and less taxing on the arm in practice.  Someone else will just have to step to be my 3rd baseman.

Can you explain why you think OF is less taxing on the arm than 3b? I'm not following this.  Can't you dictate throws in practice? How many reps in games are you certain he'll be getting at 3b or OF? 

Is this player a Sr this yr? 

Now that Summer is over(is he playing Fall Ball) did he commit and will he be signing in Nov? If not IMO he needs to shut down due to shoulder injury. Hate hearing about a kid who is being pursued by colleges/possibly pros and due to overuse he's having pain. What are his parents thinking?  

I think too many overdo the idea that a pitcher shouldn't be playing in the field. That's rarely the case in the real world of high school ball - never has been and probably never will. Too often, your top pitchers are your best fielders/bats as well. VERY unlikely that he's going to blow out an arm with one throw from any position he plays when he's not pitching. What seems to be lost - and was brought up earlier in the thread - the problem isn't the games, but rather the practices. Because your middle infielders need a lot of reps and work, ss and 2b is probably a bad idea. However, you can probably get by playing a kid like this at F3, F5 or the outfield without having to make him take many - or any - reps in practice. My main goal would be to NOT use him up in a lot of practice reps. So, if you feel that, with little to no practice at a given position, this guy is still your best option, then go for it.

Most coaches have IFers bucket balls after X number of throws to protect arms. 

Mine pretty much played every inning of every HS game and was either pitching or in the field. They moved him from 3rd after his Freshmen year to the OF, as although he was tall and could play first, he had decent speed and a strong arm. OF practice is about getting jumps and reading balls and were typically tossed in to the net behind second.  

Where I come many pitchers are pitchers only in HS, especially if its apparent that they have a future as a pitcher. Son played as short stop and 3rd and pitcher as a frosh but then a pitcher only on varsity until his senior year, when he wasnt pitching he was at first and hit.  He had begged the coach and he gave in. He received county utility player of the year.  On summer/fall travel, pitcher only.

For my practices outfielders throw to hit the cut off man and when they do individual reps they are only tossing the ball to a pile.  My infielders for individual defense take some reps with no throw and then a lot of reps with throws.  So for my practices infielders throw a lot more than the outfielders.  In saying that I want my ace to get his long toss, flat grounds and PFPs in and not have to make extra throws at 3rd base the rest of the practice.  And I am also a believer that in practice the infielders need to be able to make all the throws so it becomes second nature for them in the games.  I guess I take more of a college approach to my infielders and only want my infielders to be infielders.  Thus, they get more reps and the fact that the 3b, 2b and ss are all starters and never have to have a back up in those spots unless of an injury or discipline feels right to me.  And the bottom line is if my ace goes down with an arm injury because of too many throws from 3b, now I am down a pitcher and a 3b.

No offense, but it might more sense to stick to a "college approach" if you're coaching college kids. With a few tweaks to how you rep infielders you could have an ace and a starting 3b and still not risk injury. It's been done countless times by good HS coaches.

The best coaches learn how to adapt based on situations. This might be a time to look into different practice strategies.

No offense, but a good high school should be preparing his high school players for college baseball as well as trying to find ways to prepare his players for the possible position they will play at the next level with keeping in mind the team concept to competing at a high level.

My player played 3rd and pitched last season and was fine.  I minimized his throws in practice and he was healthy.  Then he goes to play summer ball with some "blow smoke up your ass" travel team and he plays SS and pitches 80 something pitches an outing and gets a shoulder injury.  So in saying that my idea as a good high school coach would be to move him to the outfield to try and prevent him from injury by ensuring he doesn't throw as much and focuses on his throwing for pitching purposes.  Just saying.

A good HS coach should be putting the best possible team on the field as he develops kids for the next level.  You are able to do that by tweaking your "college" practices.

Sorry to disagree, but you're the one who came on an internet message board looking for advice on how to coach your team.  

I'd like to here from more on this. This hasn't been my experience. But, then, until recently, I hadn't been around a whole lot of high school ball for about 15 years. I took a look last night at the top 15 pitchers ranked in Colorado in the 2016 class. Of those, only two were PO's. I can see where that may be your experience if you are only around bigger schools, but a large majority of kids go to schools that have enrollments under 800. In schools like those, unless your pitchers are bad at other positions, they are very unlikely to be PO. However, I'd like to here about how this is handled in other parts of the country.

Our school has a population of about 2200, located in South Florida. Actually, the state re-did the classifications this year, and we were moved from the largest to the 2nd largest.

It's now my son's 3rd year in the program, and the entire time he has been there, there have only been 5 kids who pitched that weren't PO's.  Two are outfielders that occasionally pitch. One is a backup first baseman who occasionally pitches.  Two are starting pitchers who occasionally play first base. My son was a 3rd string catcher and a pitcher for a fall season.  His entire season's worth of catching practice involved catching a pen one day.

Basically in our school's program - pitchers pitch, and fielders field. There's no doubt that some of those pitchers could contribute in other ways, but the coach prefers things this way.  I don't think there have been any pitching injuries to speak of, so the approach is at least effective in that way.

In my son's summer program there were a few two way players.  The coaches limited them to 2 innings per appearance. Of course there wasn't much in the way of practice during the summer to add additional wear.

It is a good call keeping him in the outfield, particularly if his slot is mid 3/4 or higher. His normal OF throwing reps can be incorporated as a part of his long toss arm maintenance and you have better control over his throwing intensity.

Good luck,

Ted

Please answer my ?

Is the player in question a Sr this yr and has he comitted? 

what type of shoulder problems is he having?  Has he seen a dr. or PT ?

Nice to hear it's not serious.

hope he signs in Nov then cares for his arm throughout the HS season. Glad u care enough to keep an eye on him.