What do you all think are some of the better big ten baseball programs
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Ohio State and Minnesota are the class of the conference by far.
Agree with double...The rest, in my opinion, are pretenders...except that Michigan and Maloney and his staff might make a "splash" this year.
Biggest problem...not enough quality arms that stay in the Midwest. If they're good, they're gone...South or West.
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One of the funnier things that I've heard or read...At one of the "camps" held by one of the teams from time to time, a coach was heard to tell the kids at the camp....They only recruit 90+ throwers; 6.7 runners; and 87 across the infield.
Imagine...a team with kids of that type of ability in the Big 10/11...Not in this lifetime!
Biggest problem...not enough quality arms that stay in the Midwest. If they're good, they're gone...South or West.
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One of the funnier things that I've heard or read...At one of the "camps" held by one of the teams from time to time, a coach was heard to tell the kids at the camp....They only recruit 90+ throwers; 6.7 runners; and 87 across the infield.
Imagine...a team with kids of that type of ability in the Big 10/11...Not in this lifetime!
Keep an eye on Iowa--
TRhit
TRhit
It's been many years since the U of WI dropped it baseball in favor of the fan favorite, womens crew. The thought of a major university, in a top athletic conference dropping a baseball program makes my stomach turn. To top that off, last year the Madison Mallards http://www.mallardsbaseball.com/2003/ a team in the NCAA sactioned Northern League drew an average attendance of 4,400 for 30 home dates, and on a few dates during the summer outdrew a handful of MLB teams for the night. I know the U of WI college program was not a money maker, but what college baseball program is?
Sorry to vent, but my disappointment is not only with the U of WI, but also with the Big 10 conference as a whole for not putting together consistant programs. Sure there are weather related issues, but it's an issue not an excuse. This mentality only further illustrates the roadblocks all College, HS, and travel teams from the North have when going South to play. So when you Southern folks see a baseball team of sun deprived kids that have a bit of a "nasal" accent, welcome them and respect their game because many of those in charge in the North do not.
As rz1 jumps off his soapbox...........
Sorry to vent, but my disappointment is not only with the U of WI, but also with the Big 10 conference as a whole for not putting together consistant programs. Sure there are weather related issues, but it's an issue not an excuse. This mentality only further illustrates the roadblocks all College, HS, and travel teams from the North have when going South to play. So when you Southern folks see a baseball team of sun deprived kids that have a bit of a "nasal" accent, welcome them and respect their game because many of those in charge in the North do not.
As rz1 jumps off his soapbox...........
Just in the paper this weekend was an article about meetings currently going on between Penn State and the Altoona Curve regarding bringing a minor league team to State College and building a new minor league stadium that will be shared with the Nittany Lions baseball team. Besides the baseball offices, it will house the growing sports journalism department at the university. They are hoping it will be complete within 2 years. Altho the current workout facilities are top-notch at PSU (due to Paterno and the football team), the current field is a very basic one. Great shape but no bells or whistles. Now, if they could just get rid of the snow in March and April! lol.
RZ1 Good Post!
It is a shame --wasn't aware that U of Wisconsin did not have a baseball program.
Moc1
It is a shame --wasn't aware that U of Wisconsin did not have a baseball program.
Moc1
rz...Baseball programs that make money...I believe that Mississippi State, LSU, Auburn and Alabama make money for the university.
If they don't, then they have "creative" accounting in place.
If they don't, then they have "creative" accounting in place.
Pitcher7535,
Last year's regular season top 5 standings for Big10:
Minnesota, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Northwestern
Last year's Big10 championship tournament top 5 standings:
Ohio State, Minnesota, Penn State, Michigan, Northwestern
Ohio State and Minnesota received bids to the World Series in 2003.
I certainly wouldn't classify all Big10 teams besides Ohio State and Minnesota as "pretender" teams. I'm sure there are many of us who could only dream of "pretending" at this level, or ANY level of college baseball.
Last year's regular season top 5 standings for Big10:
Minnesota, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Northwestern
Last year's Big10 championship tournament top 5 standings:
Ohio State, Minnesota, Penn State, Michigan, Northwestern
Ohio State and Minnesota received bids to the World Series in 2003.
I certainly wouldn't classify all Big10 teams besides Ohio State and Minnesota as "pretender" teams. I'm sure there are many of us who could only dream of "pretending" at this level, or ANY level of college baseball.
Moc1- A embarassing secret that the UW athletic dept will not touch because it is politically suicidal to go there.
Beenthere- Do you mean that there may be a handful of schools that make money but others show being in the black in the books only. I had always thought that because of small gates, high overhead, and lack of administrative support that over 80% of 300 D1 baseball teams run in the red.
Beenthere- Do you mean that there may be a handful of schools that make money but others show being in the black in the books only. I had always thought that because of small gates, high overhead, and lack of administrative support that over 80% of 300 D1 baseball teams run in the red.
luv...While the Big 10/11 might be a "stud-muffin" conference in football and basketball, it is only the 10-15th conference in the level of baseball played.
rz..you have a pm...No such thing as a small gate at Alabama, Auburn, LSU and Mississippi State. Routine weekend crowds of 5,000 to 10,000. Many SEC schools have several thousand season ticketholders money in the bank long before the next season starts.
If they (those schools or likely the SEC as a whole) lose money in their baseball programs, then, in my opinion, they have "creative" accountants. Especially nowadays where the "booster organizations" pick up a portion of the salaries of the head coach or the head coach and his minions make/makes bushelfull/s of money from their "camps" (otherwise known as goldmine).
rz..you have a pm...No such thing as a small gate at Alabama, Auburn, LSU and Mississippi State. Routine weekend crowds of 5,000 to 10,000. Many SEC schools have several thousand season ticketholders money in the bank long before the next season starts.
If they (those schools or likely the SEC as a whole) lose money in their baseball programs, then, in my opinion, they have "creative" accountants. Especially nowadays where the "booster organizations" pick up a portion of the salaries of the head coach or the head coach and his minions make/makes bushelfull/s of money from their "camps" (otherwise known as goldmine).
fng,
I saw who the transfer from Wke is and the transfer from Auburn, but who transferred from UVA?
I saw who the transfer from Wke is and the transfer from Auburn, but who transferred from UVA?
I can tell you that my son was very impressed with the pitching that Northwestern had when he played them.
And "ITCH" Jones at Illinois is one of the most respected coaches in the college game
TRhit
And "ITCH" Jones at Illinois is one of the most respected coaches in the college game
TRhit
Been,
Altho your need to look down upon certain programs/conferences doesn't surprise me, it still baffles me. "Studmuffin" school, or not....every boy who works hard and makes a college baseball team (regardless of conference), deserves respect and shouldn't be demeaned as being classified as a member of a "pretender team". By doing so you negate all the hard work, sweat and sacrifice these young men put into baseball.
Seriously tho, I am curious...what criteria do you use in defining what a "pretender" program is? Do you have to be on a traditionally top 25 D-1 team to be considered on a "real" team? Does the team have to be a money maker for the school? Are the boys who play for teams like Princeton, Harvard, Navy, Army (#145, #205, #223, #259 rankings respectively) considered to be on "pretender" teams because of their over-all ranking and conference affiliation (despite the fact that they get wonderful educations at these schools, "pretender" status or not)? Just curious as to what your thought process is when you label a program a "pretender".
Altho your need to look down upon certain programs/conferences doesn't surprise me, it still baffles me. "Studmuffin" school, or not....every boy who works hard and makes a college baseball team (regardless of conference), deserves respect and shouldn't be demeaned as being classified as a member of a "pretender team". By doing so you negate all the hard work, sweat and sacrifice these young men put into baseball.
Seriously tho, I am curious...what criteria do you use in defining what a "pretender" program is? Do you have to be on a traditionally top 25 D-1 team to be considered on a "real" team? Does the team have to be a money maker for the school? Are the boys who play for teams like Princeton, Harvard, Navy, Army (#145, #205, #223, #259 rankings respectively) considered to be on "pretender" teams because of their over-all ranking and conference affiliation (despite the fact that they get wonderful educations at these schools, "pretender" status or not)? Just curious as to what your thought process is when you label a program a "pretender".
Just can't agree with the proposition that all the "quality arms" go South or West. I watched a pitcher from Northwestern several times this summer and he was as good as anyone I have seen. I regularly go to Stanford, Cal, Santa Clara games and watch upwards of 15 games during the NECBL season including games involving Team USA. Dan Konecny from Northwestern can compete with just about anyone and is someone I would classify as a "very quality arm."
Ohio State and Minnesota are traditionally the top teams in the Big 10.
As far as baseball is concerned, the Big 10 is lacking compared to the rest of the country. Alot has to do with the climate we are in. No discredit to these schools baseball programs, but their facilities don't compare to the SEC, ACC, PAC 10 or Big 12's of the world.
Nobody down south has ever mistaken the Big 10 for a baseball juggernaut conference.
As far as baseball is concerned, the Big 10 is lacking compared to the rest of the country. Alot has to do with the climate we are in. No discredit to these schools baseball programs, but their facilities don't compare to the SEC, ACC, PAC 10 or Big 12's of the world.
Nobody down south has ever mistaken the Big 10 for a baseball juggernaut conference.
Slidepiece,
I agree. The fields are NOwhere near what they have down south. However, the "indoor" facilities are fantastic, due in LARGE part to the "studmuffin" football programs and the revenue they bring in. I'm sure the indoor facilities are fantastic in the SEC too (due in large part to "baseball" revenue). There is good talent in the Big 10, however, compared to the overall talent in the SEC....the numbers don't match up. Many northern players want to go down south due to the climate and "prestige"....who can blame them? Does that negate the amount of work and dedication Big10 players, and all other northern players and their teams, put into their programs? Absolutely not. Does that mean they are "pretenders"? Tell that to the guys who are down in the weight room at 5:30 a.m. every morning for their workouts, and have their days filled with classes and MORE workouts. I'll bet they give the same amount of effort as their SEC counterparts. The end result may not be the same....but they are hardly pretenders. I'm not comparing the Big10 to the SEC....that would be like comparing apples to oranges...there is no comparison. But, I just find it disconcerning when someone looks down their nose at a whole group of teams because they don't "measure up" and are lower in the rankings than "REAL" teams. It is a disservice to call them "pretenders".
I agree. The fields are NOwhere near what they have down south. However, the "indoor" facilities are fantastic, due in LARGE part to the "studmuffin" football programs and the revenue they bring in. I'm sure the indoor facilities are fantastic in the SEC too (due in large part to "baseball" revenue). There is good talent in the Big 10, however, compared to the overall talent in the SEC....the numbers don't match up. Many northern players want to go down south due to the climate and "prestige"....who can blame them? Does that negate the amount of work and dedication Big10 players, and all other northern players and their teams, put into their programs? Absolutely not. Does that mean they are "pretenders"? Tell that to the guys who are down in the weight room at 5:30 a.m. every morning for their workouts, and have their days filled with classes and MORE workouts. I'll bet they give the same amount of effort as their SEC counterparts. The end result may not be the same....but they are hardly pretenders. I'm not comparing the Big10 to the SEC....that would be like comparing apples to oranges...there is no comparison. But, I just find it disconcerning when someone looks down their nose at a whole group of teams because they don't "measure up" and are lower in the rankings than "REAL" teams. It is a disservice to call them "pretenders".
Perhaps one day "certain people" will realize that there is baseball outside of the SEC--didn't see an SEC team in the CWS final last year did we ?
And yes the kids in other conferences work as hard if not harder on their game
TRhit
And yes the kids in other conferences work as hard if not harder on their game
TRhit
TRhit and luvbb-
I won't say that the Big 10 players work harder than the SEC players, or the other way around. I agree completely with the prestige thing as well. Years ago if you were the best college football player in the land, where did you go? Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Texas, etc. Baseball is the same way. Why go to Notre Dame, even though they are an up and coming program in the country, when Arizona State, Florida State or LSU is calling? I think tradition helps funnel those players year after year to those perennial powers.
Let's face it, college baseball doesn't get the attention other college sports do, namely football and baseball. Naive sports people think of baseball they just assume the big 10 must be good because it's the Big 10. It's a misconception among the new generation of fans. The Big 10 is lacking in top teams. Give it a few years and I think people will realize that a Rice University is better than a Purdue. In baseball that is!
Remember when Texas won the CWS 20 some years ago with Roger Clemens, Calvin Shiraldi and Dennis Cook (who by the way DHed for Texas). Not many do, but the real spark on that team was a little pain in the butt SS named Billy Bates. Look back at the NCAA basketball tournament and everybody remembers how little Billy Donovan carried Providence to the Final Four. That probably has something to do with the fact that he's a big time coach now.
Once College Baseball gets some more air time on the TV people will be able to categorize the great conferences from the middle of the road.
BTW, the SEC might not have been represented last year, but I've been to Omaha when they've had 3 teams in the tourney. That conference is loaded from top to bottom.
I won't say that the Big 10 players work harder than the SEC players, or the other way around. I agree completely with the prestige thing as well. Years ago if you were the best college football player in the land, where did you go? Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Texas, etc. Baseball is the same way. Why go to Notre Dame, even though they are an up and coming program in the country, when Arizona State, Florida State or LSU is calling? I think tradition helps funnel those players year after year to those perennial powers.
Let's face it, college baseball doesn't get the attention other college sports do, namely football and baseball. Naive sports people think of baseball they just assume the big 10 must be good because it's the Big 10. It's a misconception among the new generation of fans. The Big 10 is lacking in top teams. Give it a few years and I think people will realize that a Rice University is better than a Purdue. In baseball that is!
Remember when Texas won the CWS 20 some years ago with Roger Clemens, Calvin Shiraldi and Dennis Cook (who by the way DHed for Texas). Not many do, but the real spark on that team was a little pain in the butt SS named Billy Bates. Look back at the NCAA basketball tournament and everybody remembers how little Billy Donovan carried Providence to the Final Four. That probably has something to do with the fact that he's a big time coach now.
Once College Baseball gets some more air time on the TV people will be able to categorize the great conferences from the middle of the road.
BTW, the SEC might not have been represented last year, but I've been to Omaha when they've had 3 teams in the tourney. That conference is loaded from top to bottom.
luv....I'm not trying to be politically correct nor am I attempting to demean anyone's effort in attempting to improve their physical abilities.
And yes, there are pitchers and teams in the Big 10 that can compete and even beat plenty of the SEC teams. So what?
My son is considering an Ivy as one of his final choices. OUt of a 10 game series the SEC teams win 8 out of 10. That doesn't say anything about kids working hard or anything except that the best Ivy team would lose 8 out of 10 games to the best SEC team.
Why are you picking and chosing and taking things out of context?
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Cute, TR...One year. Did you forget that LSU won 5 National Championships in the '90's? How about the committees that select the playoff regions making sure that the SEC teams knock each other off so that they are certain that they don't have 4 or 5 of the 8 World Series slots filled with SEC teams?
Fact is fact...Year in and year out (especially in the last 30 years), the best collegiate baseball is played by teams in the SEC.
And yes, there are pitchers and teams in the Big 10 that can compete and even beat plenty of the SEC teams. So what?
My son is considering an Ivy as one of his final choices. OUt of a 10 game series the SEC teams win 8 out of 10. That doesn't say anything about kids working hard or anything except that the best Ivy team would lose 8 out of 10 games to the best SEC team.
Why are you picking and chosing and taking things out of context?
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Cute, TR...One year. Did you forget that LSU won 5 National Championships in the '90's? How about the committees that select the playoff regions making sure that the SEC teams knock each other off so that they are certain that they don't have 4 or 5 of the 8 World Series slots filled with SEC teams?
Fact is fact...Year in and year out (especially in the last 30 years), the best collegiate baseball is played by teams in the SEC.
Luvbb,
The individual players need not worry about anything other than playing the game well - whatever conference they are in.
In this years past draft - I believe approx. 550 players were drafted out of D-1 schools. The SEC had about 50 of them.
The other 500 didnt play in the SEC.
Quite frankly - you could argue all day about Pac10, Big12, SEC, ACC etc.. and strength of schedule. Personally - it bores me.
A real ballplayer - once situated on a team - just needs to play well and not worry about what the spectators are saying or not saying. Just my opinion.
The individual players need not worry about anything other than playing the game well - whatever conference they are in.
In this years past draft - I believe approx. 550 players were drafted out of D-1 schools. The SEC had about 50 of them.
The other 500 didnt play in the SEC.
Quite frankly - you could argue all day about Pac10, Big12, SEC, ACC etc.. and strength of schedule. Personally - it bores me.
A real ballplayer - once situated on a team - just needs to play well and not worry about what the spectators are saying or not saying. Just my opinion.
it's - great post
I agree with "bee"....great post "it's"! It's boring and stupid to compare conferences....and if THAT is what came thru in my posts then I apologize, it wasn't my intention. Everyone has an opinion and feels free to express it on this board (which is what this is board is all about I guess)....I just take offense when the opinion is expressed in a demeaning way. I don't care if you are trying to be politically correct or not. Personally, I have NO idea if common courtesy is politically correct these days or not....I just look at it as a sign of a courteous and well-intentioned person. I admit that I DO take this somewhat personally. Being from Pennsylvania, I know MANY northeast ball players who WILLINGLY chose to stay closer to home (for a variety of reasons) to play ball on teams that are perhaps in the mid to lower rankings. And believe me....it wasn't because it was their ONLY choice. These are the type of players and programs that are referred to as "pretender" teams on this thread. Personally, I don't care if a kid is on a team that loses 10 out of 10 to a SEC team.....I don't think THAT stat qualifies it as a "pretender" team. Sorry "been", don't feel like I'm picking and choosing here....your "pretender" team remark was degrading...whether intended or not.
I'm curious beenthere....if your son DOES decide to go Ivy (considering the top Ivy last year finished ranked #145, altho I could be wrong) will you consider him on a "pretender" team?
I'm curious beenthere....if your son DOES decide to go Ivy (considering the top Ivy last year finished ranked #145, altho I could be wrong) will you consider him on a "pretender" team?
luv...Wherever my son decides to go, his mom and I will support him 100%.
As you well know, the comment about the "pretender" teams was referencing the teams IN THE BIG TEN COMPARED TO EACH OTHER. I said that Ohio State and Minnesota were the big dogs, year in and year out, and that Michigan might make a splash in the next couple of years.
As in the Big 10/11, the Ivy League has contenders and pretenders. If he goes Ivy, I hope that the school he attends is a contender (one had a 77 RPI and the other at 145). If not, it doesn't matter a bit to me because he is not going to an Ivy League school (if he goes) because they have better baseball programs than the top dogs in the SEC. They simply do not. He is going because he can play baseball, likes the coach and teammates; and, is convinced that it is the right decision for him. If things don't work out in baseball, he has an Ivy League education and degree and network as he plans his future.
As "flippant" as I often can be on this site, I was surprised at the maturity he has shown during this recruiting process. Even with the interest from the pro teams, it really hasn't been a distraction for him, in school or socially.
As you well know, the comment about the "pretender" teams was referencing the teams IN THE BIG TEN COMPARED TO EACH OTHER. I said that Ohio State and Minnesota were the big dogs, year in and year out, and that Michigan might make a splash in the next couple of years.
As in the Big 10/11, the Ivy League has contenders and pretenders. If he goes Ivy, I hope that the school he attends is a contender (one had a 77 RPI and the other at 145). If not, it doesn't matter a bit to me because he is not going to an Ivy League school (if he goes) because they have better baseball programs than the top dogs in the SEC. They simply do not. He is going because he can play baseball, likes the coach and teammates; and, is convinced that it is the right decision for him. If things don't work out in baseball, he has an Ivy League education and degree and network as he plans his future.
As "flippant" as I often can be on this site, I was surprised at the maturity he has shown during this recruiting process. Even with the interest from the pro teams, it really hasn't been a distraction for him, in school or socially.
Given the nature of the people who frequent this site, I am confident in assuming that we ALL support our sons 100%. That is why the "flippant" remarks are unwarranted and disparaging. Good luck to your son wherever he decides to go to school. Have a good holiday with your family Beenthere. I am asking Santa for thicker skin this year, this board has shown me the need for it. 
Although I was born in Lithuania, I have written my posts in English.
This is a website that promotes active interchange of ideas and otherwise encourages postings of all kinds and by all types of people.
I learned long ago that there is nothing on a website posting that should be taken SERIOUSLY or which should personally offend someone when considering that you can come and go as you choose and no one is going to hold your feet to the fire if you don't agree.
I pay attention to the "stuff" (NCAA rules, regs, substantive postings about camps and showcases by the websters, testing, etc.,), and dismiss the "fluff".
Don't need a thick skin to enjoy the site...just change the channel for a while and come back later.
This is a website that promotes active interchange of ideas and otherwise encourages postings of all kinds and by all types of people.
I learned long ago that there is nothing on a website posting that should be taken SERIOUSLY or which should personally offend someone when considering that you can come and go as you choose and no one is going to hold your feet to the fire if you don't agree.
I pay attention to the "stuff" (NCAA rules, regs, substantive postings about camps and showcases by the websters, testing, etc.,), and dismiss the "fluff".
Don't need a thick skin to enjoy the site...just change the channel for a while and come back later.
Can someone give me some information about Illinois? Coach, program, facilities, needs? Just last night a recruiter contacted me asking if my '04 pitcher would be interested in discussing. I read this thread and understand they haven't had a lot of success lately, but thought I'd ask anywho.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
Not to try and incite a riot but .... I'm not so sure that the best baseball conference in the midwest might really be the MAC. at least when comparing the top teams in the Big 11 versus the top of the MAC.
Good baseball played in both conferences though.
Just food for thought
Bob,
"Doing nothing is still a course of action"
Good baseball played in both conferences though.
Just food for thought
Bob,
"Doing nothing is still a course of action"
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
"My son is considering an Ivy as one of his final choices. OUt of a 10 game series the SEC teams win 8 out of 10. That doesn't say anything about kids working hard or anything except that the best Ivy team would lose 8 out of 10 games to the best SEC team."
I was glad to see that Princeton gave Clemson a real run at it in the Regional(second round) last year. I am curious, Been, in your (august) estimation, who qualifies as a "pretender" and a "contender" in the Ivy League?
"My son is considering an Ivy as one of his final choices. OUt of a 10 game series the SEC teams win 8 out of 10. That doesn't say anything about kids working hard or anything except that the best Ivy team would lose 8 out of 10 games to the best SEC team."
I was glad to see that Princeton gave Clemson a real run at it in the Regional(second round) last year. I am curious, Been, in your (august) estimation, who qualifies as a "pretender" and a "contender" in the Ivy League?
Beenthere: Just curious which RPI rating system you are looking at since I see so many different numbers - on different sites - and would like to see the one that really counts. Thanks!
MYMom,
I would guess that BTI is referring to Boyd's World RPI's. Of course I could be wrong.
http://www.boydsworld.com/baseball/rpi/currentrpi.html
Bob,
"Doing nothing is still a course of action"
I would guess that BTI is referring to Boyd's World RPI's. Of course I could be wrong.
http://www.boydsworld.com/baseball/rpi/currentrpi.html
Bob,
"Doing nothing is still a course of action"
Mom...Bob is giving the link that is the purported "bible" of RPI rankings for college baseball.
--
I have no clue as to the "contenders" or "pretenders" in the Ivy League. No clue.
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I have no clue as to the "contenders" or "pretenders" in the Ivy League. No clue.
Beenthere,
What people are trying to tell you is that you may come across as condescending or arrogant, when there really is no need for that. Each kid hopes for a good experience with their team no matter what level and expresses pride in their team. To label a "pretender" is to say they never have a chance to be a "contender". The question was not whether the Big 10 is worthwhile playing in at all, was it? It was which schools would provide a good experience. Nothing is as black and white as you make it sound. Not all good arms leave, etc., etc. Not all kids who go to Ivies are set up for life, either. Having said that, good luck to your son. I hope you would wish the best for others' sons, too, and exhibit more understanding for others' situations.
What people are trying to tell you is that you may come across as condescending or arrogant, when there really is no need for that. Each kid hopes for a good experience with their team no matter what level and expresses pride in their team. To label a "pretender" is to say they never have a chance to be a "contender". The question was not whether the Big 10 is worthwhile playing in at all, was it? It was which schools would provide a good experience. Nothing is as black and white as you make it sound. Not all good arms leave, etc., etc. Not all kids who go to Ivies are set up for life, either. Having said that, good luck to your son. I hope you would wish the best for others' sons, too, and exhibit more understanding for others' situations.
where's this going?
I'm gonna tippy-toe back in here with my Peter Gammons dictionary -
the issue here seems to be only that the "moms", are out of their territory (ie - the ladies lounge -where everything is pink & feels good)
let me say first that there are great players all over the country -
on good teams, on bad teams
in great conferences, in weak conferences
that's reality, not perception - it's born out by the stats & records -
contender/pretender as used in the context of sports pages, on ESPN, often by coaches themselves describing their teams, and by "B'There" - pretty acurately describes "one's view" of thats team's history & expectations this coming season.
contender - teams that should be (or usually are) in position to win the conference
pretender - teams that may be "on the rise" or "on the fall" and would be a big surprise to win the conference
doormat - a coaching change is usually iminent
ex - U Toledo, perennial doormat of the MAC(west), in '03 featured 1rst rounder Maier(C), drafted 30th OA by KC - fired their coaches & hired Cory Mee from N Dame to keep things flowing postiive
I used UT not to pick on them, but as an example of an administration trying to turn things around
hope that helps
I'm gonna tippy-toe back in here with my Peter Gammons dictionary -
the issue here seems to be only that the "moms", are out of their territory (ie - the ladies lounge -where everything is pink & feels good)
let me say first that there are great players all over the country -
on good teams, on bad teams
in great conferences, in weak conferences
that's reality, not perception - it's born out by the stats & records -
contender/pretender as used in the context of sports pages, on ESPN, often by coaches themselves describing their teams, and by "B'There" - pretty acurately describes "one's view" of thats team's history & expectations this coming season.
contender - teams that should be (or usually are) in position to win the conference
pretender - teams that may be "on the rise" or "on the fall" and would be a big surprise to win the conference
doormat - a coaching change is usually iminent
ex - U Toledo, perennial doormat of the MAC(west), in '03 featured 1rst rounder Maier(C), drafted 30th OA by KC - fired their coaches & hired Cory Mee from N Dame to keep things flowing postiive
I used UT not to pick on them, but as an example of an administration trying to turn things around
hope that helps
Thanks so much Bob and Beenthere - I can never remember which one is considered the more respected one to look at.
"the "moms", are out of their territory (ie - the ladies lounge -where everything is pink & feels good)" 
Geaux Cajuns
Geaux Cajuns
Is the RPI like the BCS 
?
My son is at a school that many think is on the upswing but the RPI rating would make you think otherwise. Even though it qualified for the NCAA tourney last year, I'm sure it does not send shivers up the spines of many top 20 teams. By adding series with Miami FL, Arkansas, Arkansas State, Ohio State, and Michigan to the non-conference schedule should improve that rating but the conference schedule will still hold it down.
My point is my son did not pick a school because of its RPI or name recognition. He chose his school because of the academics, coaching, and how he felt there. The RPI is a factor that is calculated, and the rating is a result of external factors and may not be indicative of the actual team strength. In the end of a college career there should be only a few questions.
Did you get your education? Y
Were you coached well? Y
Did your enjoy your baseball and school experience? Y
Did you give your best shot to baseball and school? Y
Did you care what your RPI rating was? N
?My son is at a school that many think is on the upswing but the RPI rating would make you think otherwise. Even though it qualified for the NCAA tourney last year, I'm sure it does not send shivers up the spines of many top 20 teams. By adding series with Miami FL, Arkansas, Arkansas State, Ohio State, and Michigan to the non-conference schedule should improve that rating but the conference schedule will still hold it down.
My point is my son did not pick a school because of its RPI or name recognition. He chose his school because of the academics, coaching, and how he felt there. The RPI is a factor that is calculated, and the rating is a result of external factors and may not be indicative of the actual team strength. In the end of a college career there should be only a few questions.
Did you get your education? Y
Were you coached well? Y
Did your enjoy your baseball and school experience? Y
Did you give your best shot to baseball and school? Y
Did you care what your RPI rating was? N
rz1
Well said!!
I am generally not a touchy-feely type of person, but felt that we need to remember how our statements might sound to others. Not everybody can play at the best program, can they? And if that were the only valuable experience, then where would the next generations' coaches and fans come from?
Well said!!
I am generally not a touchy-feely type of person, but felt that we need to remember how our statements might sound to others. Not everybody can play at the best program, can they? And if that were the only valuable experience, then where would the next generations' coaches and fans come from?
12smom,
Regardless, beenthere and all other posters have points that you cannot argue with because someones perception and response of a subject is exactly that "his/hers". When typing a response it is hard to insert the "body Language" that a face 2 face or even a verbal discussion provides. I'm sure were all guilty of raising the hair of a fellow poster, but, for the most part it's communication you would not get if you were not here. Enjoy what you have, and be happy you're in a situation that allows us to discuss it. We could be talkin about the soccir net having a hole in it.
Regardless, beenthere and all other posters have points that you cannot argue with because someones perception and response of a subject is exactly that "his/hers". When typing a response it is hard to insert the "body Language" that a face 2 face or even a verbal discussion provides. I'm sure were all guilty of raising the hair of a fellow poster, but, for the most part it's communication you would not get if you were not here. Enjoy what you have, and be happy you're in a situation that allows us to discuss it. We could be talkin about the soccir net having a hole in it.
quote:
We could be talkin about the soccir net having a hole in it.
Well said.
