Bishop Gorman signees

Congratulations to the players



But I have to ask, no players to support the local school - UNLV

All I can say is WOW. What a program and congratulations to these kids. Wow!

Five years ago my son had the pleasure of playing competitive ball in Las Vegas. My goodness, what a treat! The baseball there is superb.. great players.. and the fields are just immaculate, all lighted and EVERYWHERE. Las Vegas is such a great baseball town.. I'm happy for these kids. MLB needs to put a team there. Get off the strip, folks, and Las Vegas is all about BASEBALL.

Falconpitch,

Congratulations on a great bunch of recruits. Our Nebraska state champs (NP Dodge Wildcats -- all players from Millard West HS) had the misfortune to be matched up with Nevada in the first round of the American Legion World Series and lost 7-5. As I recall Roach got the win. Malm is a very impressive player.

Despite going 0-2 in the tournament, the Wildcats did not come home empty-handed. Shortstop Brandon Bass ('09) won the Louisville Slugger Award (.576) and teammate Danny Marcuzzo ('08) was runner-up (.520). The Wildcats took 3 of the top 4 spots and 4 of the top seven batting averages in regional and ALWS competition. (See Article.

2008 Nebraska College Commitments

2009 Nebraska College Commitments

www.baseballnebraska.com

Congrats to the Players they deserve it.
But I have to question the program itself.
This is a private school that recruits its players from all over. They give full scholarships based on athletics only and tutor its players so they can meet the requirements. They compete against public school programs whose players are limited to go to schools in their neighborhood. This school wins every state championship in all sports. Is this fair?

Sporst is about competition within a certain set of rules. Beyond that, fair is what happens on the field. The version of fair that you're asking for is only a fantasy in Washinton D.C. and other liberal fantasylands.

quote:

Congrats to the Players they deserve it.
But I have to question the program itself.
This is a private school that recruits its players from all over. They give full scholarships based on athletics only and tutor its players so they can meet the requirements. They compete against public school programs whose players are limited to go to schools in their neighborhood. This school wins every state championship in all sports. Is this fair?

Many schools out there like this that are private,Jesuit is another one.No disrepect to thier players, becasue they have a lot of very good players, but when they play a local school its tough to compete. The tutoring part I wished was in all the schools if needed. I have come to realize many things in my almost 50 years, ione of them is Life is not fair at times. Do not know about scholarships, is that legal? . I just try to enjoy the game, fair or not at times, there are many unfair things in the game of baseball that I could talk about. But like I tell my son, play hard, work hard and be the best you can be, and if your up against one of those hand picked private schools, make sure you go 4-4 with no errors

With all due respect, I think Toye worrying about the wrong thing. I think it is appropriate to pay attention to the situation you can control, i.e. you son and his school, and not worry about what you cannot control, as in other schools. Fanofgame, I think your perspective is a bit more on point, as in worrying about what you can control.

Since you mentioned Jesuit, and are from California, I'll assume you mean Jesuit in Sacramento. And I think you know that I have a fairly close connection with that school's baseball program, in that I coach many of their players in the summer. So, I feel somewhat qualified to comment on that specific program, at least in the sense of an informed observer.

Jesuit has many more applicants who wish to get into that school than they accept for admission every year. My understanding is that they do occasionally give out scholarships, but they are only on a financial need basis, and not related to sports at all. I also understand that most of those who receive financial aid must repay the school in other ways. They excel in many sports, with their rugby and s****r teams also being nationally ranked. That is not due to recruiting, unless you consider the families to be recruiting the school to accept their sons. Also, the cost of attendance at Jesuit is nearly as much as some universities, but they do get their money's worth, as the academics are ranked among the very best schools in our state. I know for a fact that the focus on academics far outweighs the focus on sports.

As for their baseball team, yes, they're one of the top ranked HS teams in the nation with 9 players, at this point, who are going on to play in college. They still can be beat, and occasionally they are. They've had some close games on the field so far this spring, and I don't think anyone on the other teams thought it was 'unfair.' I'd say that they get where they are by a lot of hard work (they flat out work longer and harder than any other team, IMO), a lot of natural talent that good coaching has developed, and a strong desire to be the best they can be. I do not know what is wrong with that. As for unfair, not all all. I do think they take excellence more seriously than quite a few other schools out there, both on the field and in the classroom.

I don't know much about Bishop Gorman, as we've only played their summer team once. It was only a single game, so not a good representative sample; but we beat them pretty soundly with a lot of players who do not attend Jesuit. I don't think they thought it was unfair at all, just a good baseball game. It WAS enjoyable to coach in, as there were a lot of excellent players on both teams who knew how to play the game the right way.

This is an interesting discussion.

In Oregon, outright recruiting by schools for athletic purposes is prohibited. In Oregon parlance, it is called "undue influence," and if a school is shown to have used athletics as a way to lure a student, that kid could be deemed ineligible.

The Jesuit HS in Portland, and to some extent the more successful public schools, are constantly accused of recruiting. Do they actually "recruit?" The don;t HAVE to!

Parents of talented kids tend to seek these schools out, at least in part because of their athletic programs. It is not "recruiting" as defined in the rules, but there is not question at all that these schools draw talent to them.

Lots of people whine about it, but they can almost never prove any violation of the rules.

Is it "fair?" I'm not sure what that means. Is it fair that some players are more talented than my son?

I'll say this: if you are going to whine about unfairness when facing a more talented team, you are almost certainly already beat.

This is an interesting discussion is correct and that is what it was intended to be.
In some of the replies I've read the word "whine". By all means I was not. In the two games my son played in against Gorman last season ended both in his victory. First 22-4, second 7-3. He has never lost to them. I was just trying to start a discussion to see what the experiences on recruiting were in different states. Believe me I have taught my son to ALWAYS play twice as hard. And he does seek the best competition.
I think the rules which apply in Oregon "undue influence" should be instuted nation wide.

I wasn't saying that you were whining. I was talking about what we hear here in Oregon about schools like Jesuit and to some extent my own son's HS.

And believe me, THAT is whining! Constant accusations of illegal recruiting with no basis in fact.

Where was the accusation of illegal recruiting???

I am not whining , I dont care,BUT a private school that can have players outside of any borders has a distict advantage over a regular HS. Cant change that, not whining about it, playing them is great competition , but I still and always will think they have an advantage, you can not deny that. Yes the kids have to meet standards to be there, and it costs a lot of money and they are getting a good education,but parity is not there when they play a little public shcool. , maybe your son attends a private school, but what about those that can not afford it? And as far a srecruiting I think some schools do it, but who can ever proove it.
Lots of schools have kids that work hard on and off the field. to say Jesuits kids work harder than anyone you know is a pretty broad statement. Again you have congregated talented players whose parents can affford the school and training.Hey I know many of the kids at private schools, they are very good,I would not take that away from them, they would stand out on a reg. HS team no doubt, but the schools they play only get certain kids, there are lots of good coaches out there that dont get that much talent in any given year. They have to work as hard also.

quote:

Where was the accusation of illegal recruiting???

I wasn't talking about you! I was talking about what I hear here in Oregon!

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Do they actually "recruit?" The don;t HAVE to!

Rob pretty much nails the situation with this observation. The top private schools do not have to recruit anyone. They have people knocking on their doors all the time, wanting their kid to be admitted to those schools, and turn many away. And a lot of those student athletes happen to be very good players in their chosen sport.

I've heard the same type of complaint leveled against the type of summer ball we play, where we CAN recruit and do, any player we want. American Legion teams can only bring in players from a few schools they draw from versus us taking any player no matter where he lives or goes to school. Guess what, the best players DO like to play with each other, even when they are heated opponents during the high school season. I've had people complain that what we do isn't fair either, except that it is no different, in a recruiting sense, from what college and pro teams do...they go out and obtain the best talent they can find that is a fit for their programs. This aspect of sport, at any level, has nothing to do with fair. It is about competing at the highest level you can acheive and typically the ones who don't like it, are those who aren't part of it. Toye, I commend your son for playing hard and doing things the right way, but leave 'fair' out of the discussion because this is the wrong venue to worry about that.

Setting the record straight:

As previous posters have said, the successful schools do not have to recruit. Bishop Gorman is a great example. Because of the success it has had (3 straight state titles, American Legion World Series championship), it has good players flocking to its campus.
And the coaches work at getting their kids committed to D-1 schools. The three varsity coaches have a combined 38 years of pro experience and all three are in their late 30s. Head Coach Chris Sheff played 10 years (six in Triple-A) and also was part of the 1992 Pepperdine team that won the College World Series; pitching coach Scott Baker played 12 years and saw big league time; and Chris Latham played 16 years, five in MLB. They have great contacts, especially at the D-I level.
Because of its success, Gorman has a huge following among college and pro scouts, not only during the regular season, but the summer as well.
Most of the Vegas schools play a 30-game legion schedule during the summer, and that's it. They seldom travel and because of it, they get little exposure. Gorman played 83 games last summer (75-7-1) and traveled to Nebraska, Colorado, Orange County (three times), Arizona and North Carolina, playing against quality teams. Put those 83 games together with the 44 during the regular season (41-3 last year) and at least 30 they play during the fall and you can see why they are so much better. They work at it.
Oh, and by the way, one poster had Gorman losing twice to his son's team by 22-4 and 7-3 scores last year. Didn't happen, no way. Gorman lost three games a season ago, two by a run and the other game by three runs.
Because of its success a year ago and last summer, Gorman was the unanimous pre-season No. 1 pick in the nation this season, but stumbled getting out of the gate and is currently 4-3. But don't be surprised to see them among the nation's best at season's end.