Blocking question

As the father of a catcher....

If nobody is on base, and the pitch is way off to the side, no, because to block everything is a lot of ware and tear on the catcher and a lot of energy wasted that the catcher may need when there are base runners... you just want to make sure the umpire does not get hit.

If a pitcher throws a wild pitch and loses confidence then he should not be on the mound in the first place. IMHO.

By any chance, was the coach a former pitcher?
He definitely was not a catcher.

I will give you advice from a coaches stad point. Catchers work hard enough as it is and have the hardest job on the field. There body is constantly beat up and tired. I have always told my catchers that they DO NOT need to block everything with no runners on, unless there are 2 strikes. I had this confirmed by Brett Mayne who caught in the big leagues for about 20 years. I almost word for word said the same thing. He said that in this situation the catcher needs to be as relaxed as possible because the majority of the time he will be in a runners on stance.

quote:

Originally posted by IEBSBL:
I will give you advice from a coaches stad point. Catchers work hard enough as it is and have the hardest job on the field. There body is constantly beat up and tired. I have always told my catchers that they DO NOT need to block everything with no runners on, unless there are 2 strikes. I had this confirmed by Brett Mayne who caught in the big leagues for about 20 years. I almost word for word said the same thing. He said that in this situation the catcher needs to be as relaxed as possible because the majority of the time he will be in a runners on stance.

This is consistent with my son's coach's approach but unfortunately he is not your son's coach. The benching would seem to indicate he is serious about what he is asking your son to do.

Seems you have two choices support the coach in a fashion that keeps your son from being benched or rock the boat and keep seeing your son take a seat.

If your son is new to catching it might be good for him to attempt to block everything. He can block even when not in runners on stance. Eventually he will do it without thinking about it regardless if runners on or not.

Lots of kids have arms strong enough to throw runners out but that group gets shrunk considerably when you add in the blocking component. As a coach I don't have to steal if all I have to do is wait for you to not block a ball in the dirt.

I'm a former catcher, and now a catching coach...I believe that you absolutely SHOULD block everything thrown in the dirt, with or without runners on!

There are actually about 4 or 5 really good reasons (I cover all of them in my book) to block balls in the dirt even without runners on base.

How about this question though: Why wouldn't you block balls all the time? Is it really that much more difficult? Is it that much more demanding to block an extra 7 or 8 balls a game? I don't think it is...and I'm not just making this up, I was fortunate enough to catch professionally for a few years.

Ask yourself, or have your son ask himself this question: If you're being recruited/scouted by a college coach or a professional scout do you think it would be more impressive to them if you only blocked balls in the dirt when runners are on base, or if you blocked every ball in the dirt? If you think that coaches/scouts don't care then don't worry about it. However, if you think it would improve your stock you should do it!

Why do we tell guys to hustle out of the box on a simple fly ball that a middle school player could catch in his back pocket (besides the fact you need to hustle on everything)? Because you never know who's in the stands with a stopwatch trying to guage your overall footspeed because that might be the only chance he gets to guage it.

Why do we tell catchers to give us game effort on throws to second after the 5 warm up pitches to start an inning? You never know who's in the stands with a stopwatch seeing what your poptime is because it might be the only time he gets to time you if nobody ever tries to steal on you.

I'm with catching101 in you need to block everything you can. There is always the "What If" factor in everything you do on a baseball field in terms of what you can do to impress someone. Do the little things that make you just a little bit better than everyone else.

Also, not blocking everything with nobody on can leak over into when you do have runners on. My catcher went about two games where he tried to scoop everything and next thing you know he did it once with a runner on - amazingly the runner went to the next base. Let's just say we had a nice philosophical discussion on why we need to block everything. Ever since then he has looked like a beast behind the plate. He blocked a few pitches tonight that I just had to give him a pat on the back and tell him he could put on an instructional video.

Block everything.

If your little guy is new to catching, then blocking will be hands down the hardest physical task for him to master. He may be able to throw out Jose Reyes but if he can't block then he won't be a catcher very long. I think we can all agree on that fact.

If that's the case, then why not treat every ball in the dirt as an opportunity to get better at blocking? There is absolutely no substitute for in-game reps so instead of seeing this as unfair or unreasonable, see it for what it is - an opportunity.

Perhaps I'm crazy but I want my catchers to block even in the the 'pen. Bullpen work isn't just for pitchers! Whit that said, there's a difference between blockable balls and legit wild pitches, and the expectation should also be different.

Should he be expect to block every ball thrown to him at 13? Absolutely not. However I don't think it's asinine to ask him to TRY to block every ball thrown to him.

Granted when he goes pro and has to play 100+ games a season while traveling the country, then he'll need to preserve some energy. Until then, never take a pitch off.

Thanks guys. This is great advice as usual.

So I guess to reiterate, blocking balls in the dirt wasn't my original question. That seems like something he could work on. It's pitches outside the strike zone, let’s say left and right. Knowing now that he should try to block everything, should he learn to do it from his "nobody on" stance, or forget that one for now and go from "runners on" all the time? Thanks again!

What I teach may differ from the norm but I'll throw it out there anyways.

I want my catchers to block out of the primary stance. A lot of good catchers can anticipate pitches in the dirt. You also have to know your pitcher - at that age you just need to assume anything off-speed is going to be in the dirt so be ready. If he hits a spot then that's just a bonus. Also the more you catch pitchers you get used to their mechanics and can almost know where the balls going before they release.

I think too many times catchers think they don't need to be athletic and agile from their primary stance. What happens when someone bunts for a hit and they're on their heels?

As far as what balls to block - anything in front should be a given. When you start getting into inside and outside batters boxes is when the success percentage may drop but the expectation of effort doesn't.

quote:

Originally posted by gtaft:
Thanks guys. This is great advice as usual.

So I guess to reiterate, blocking balls in the dirt wasn't my original question. That seems like something he could work on. It's pitches outside the strike zone, let’s say left and right. Knowing now that he should try to block everything, should he learn to do it from his "nobody on" stance, or forget that one for now and go from "runners on" all the time? Thanks again!

First, I agree with the the idea that, as a new young catcher, he should be trying to block everything so that he takes advantage of every learning opportunity and rep. I think it is important to establish the habit of blocking properly on every pitch. Then, later, he can learn when he can conserve. To address your "outside the strike zone, left and right" comment, I also think it is very important to be aware that he must also protect the umpire, who is slightly off to one side or the other.

That said, I am glad you brought up your question again regarding "nobody on" stance. We had one of our varsity catchers allowing the ump to take a beating the other day. When he was letting balls past him, he was sort of lifting before dropping because he was in the "nobody on" stance. I told him he still needed to protect the ump but he had some merit to his argument regarding stance/situation. I would love for Xan and/or another experienced catcher to re-address this question specific to stance. I think it could be very insightful.

I must admitt it "looks" bad when a catcher makes no/little effort on a ball even with no runners on.

However, if a catcher blocks all balls in the dirt he's not maximizing his team's defense. i.e. runner takes off ball bounces in dirt if blocked the runner gets the base, if picked the catcher has a chance to throw him out, if missed the runner still gets the base.......

I would recomend that your son do what the coach asks of him. In terms of stance, he should ask the coach what he wants, because he will be sacrificing a low stance to be in the ready position. Perhaps the coach just wants some type of blocking effort from whatever stance is being used.

Good luck

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Originally posted by cabbagedad:


That said, I am glad you brought up your question again regarding "nobody on" stance. We had one of our varsity catchers allowing the ump to take a beating the other day. When he was letting balls past him, he was sort of lifting before dropping because he was in the "nobody on" stance. I told him he still needed to protect the ump but he had some merit to his argument regarding stance/situation. I would love for Xan and/or another experienced catcher to re-address this question specific to stance. I think it could be very insightful.

Guys get in secondary stance (runners on base), to make it easier to block and throw, not to make it possible. So is it a little more difficult to block from a primary stance (no one on base, less than 2 Ks)? Sure, but it's not impossible! I'm not sure where the notion came from that it can't be done, but the blocking mechanics really don't change...it's just easier to do when you're in your secondary stance.

For example, let's imagine we're at the Olympics and we're watching the 100M. All the runners will start using the blocks, right? They do this because it makes it easier to start the sprint. It's not impossible to start running without using blocks, but using the blocks helps the runners out so they do it. The same thing with blocking is true. We use our secondary stance to help us block, but that doesn't mean that we can't block if we're not in our secondary stance.

The secondary stance just makes it a little easier, that's all.

I hope that makes sense and everyone understands the point I'm trying to get across.

quote:

Originally posted by Catching101:

Guys get in secondary stance (runners on base), to make it easier to block and throw, not to make it possible. So is it a little more difficult to block from a primary stance (no one on base, less than 2 Ks)? Sure, but it's not impossible! I'm not sure where the notion came from that it can't be done, but the blocking mechanics really don't change...it's just easier to do when you're in your secondary stance.

For example, let's imagine we're at the Olympics and we're watching the 100M. All the runners will start using the blocks, right? They do this because it makes it easier to start the sprint. It's not impossible to start running without using blocks, but using the blocks helps the runners out so they do it. The same thing with blocking is true. We use our secondary stance to help us block, but that doesn't mean that we can't block if we're not in our secondary stance.

The secondary stance just makes it a little easier, that's all.

I hope that makes sense and everyone understands the point I'm trying to get across.

Wow, does that ever clear things up. I thought it was an "either/or" type of thing. Thanks C101, I think that was the explanation I was looking for. Thanks to every one else for their responses too. They are also very helpful. Again, that's why I ask here.
So now we're off to work on stopping the ball from the primary stance.

This is a question I get asked often. The key here is to realize "why" we should block out of our nobody-on stance (with less than two strikes).

The simple answer is that battered and bruised umpires call less strikes. Part of our job as catcher is to protect the umpire, with runners on or the bases empty. It doesn't need to be pretty, the ball can't hit the umpire.

The argument that pitchers lose confidence isn't a base-less one, but the only person a pitcher should be capable of losing confidence in is the catcher. And a catcher who blocks balls when there are runners on base will give that pitcher all the confidence in the world to bury an 0-2 pitch in the dirt. If a pitcher is losing confidence in himself because some pitches get by the catcher with nobody on base and less than two strikes, that only reflects poor coaching.

The fact of the matter is that a catcher should always block pitches, but it's the purpose that needs to be clarified.

I can tell you as a professional catching instructor and as a scout, I am always looking for catchers to keep pitches in front of them, regardless of whether there is a runner on base or not. With a runner on base their success will be measured by whether they were able to prevent the runner from advancing a base. With nobody-on and less than two strikes on the batter, their success is determined by whether they kept the ball from hitting the umpire.

My son blocks every pitch he can, even warm up pitches. As best I can tell, he doesn't give it any thought. It has become instinctive.

For balls which are quite a distance of the plate, he shifts before he blocks, of course. Sometimes he has to dive. He can dive to the right, go in a circle and come up facing the field. I think alot of catchers can do this.

He's had the benefit of catching some lousy pitchers, so it isn't too taxing on him. Heck, sometimes he catches doubleheaders.

Besides protecting the ump, the catcher is teaching the other 8 players how hard they should be working.

quote:

Originally posted by twotex:
My son blocks every pitch he can, even warm up pitches. As best I can tell, he doesn't give it any thought. It has become instinctive.

For balls which are quite a distance of the plate, he shifts before he blocks, of course. Sometimes he has to dive. He can dive to the right, go in a circle and come up facing the field. I think alot of catchers can do this.

He's had the benefit of catching some lousy pitchers, so it isn't too taxing on him. Heck, sometimes he catches doubleheaders.

Besides protecting the ump, the catcher is teaching the other 8 players how hard they should be working.

As an umpire, it gives me the warm & fuzzies when the catcher smothers a dirt ball with nobody on. When I have that kind of confidence in the catcher, I find my concentration better. When my concentration is better, I call tend to call more strikes.

Dash, I've seen umpires come up to my son after the game and shake his hand. I've never asked him what that say but I believe I understand better why they do that.

No doubt about it. He is a catcher. He needs to catch. Block and catch them all. And be thankful for the opportunity because you really don't know who is watching, including the umpire at your back.

My son has been taught by a current MLB catcher to block off-speed stuff and pick fastballs. His HS and summer coaches think that it looks lazy to pick pitches. I tell him that if it is what they are teaching at the MLB level then its probably the right way to do it. Baseball more than any sport has multiple ways to do things. I say that as long as the player is getting his job done then it should be okay.

Dave,

Would absolutely love to know who that MLB catcher is. Because I can tell you, without a doubt, that is NOT what they teach at the Major League level. The only time I have ever seen a Major League manager or roving catching instructor teach a pick of a fastball in the dirt is when the runner on 1B has already taken off and it is the only way to have a chance at getting the out at 2B. That is a drill that is practiced at the MLB level. However, it should NEVER be the default approach to blocking.

I'll throw in my two cents, as a former catcher who advanced farther as an umpire more than he would have as a player...as well as a soldier.

In the Army, we practice our individual tasks repetitively, not because it looks good, but because when the **** hits the fan, you go back to your instincts. If a catcher is doing the same thing on a given pitch whether there are runners on or not, he is going to have a more reliable outcome.

Being the guy behind the catcher, I'm not going to repeat what Dash said above--because I don't think getting hit is the important thing to me as an umpire. When a ball goes in the dirt, your catcher shouldn't be thinking about whether it was an inside or outside pitch or what the runner(s) is(are) going to do. That should have been done before the pitch left the pitcher's hand. If your catcher is approaching every pitch as if it's his job to take care of it, then he is going to make it easier for you to get where you need to go. If I get hit, it happens.

quote:

Originally posted by daveccpa:
My son has been taught by a current MLB catcher to block off-speed stuff and pick fastballs. His HS and summer coaches think that it looks lazy to pick pitches. I tell him that if it is what they are teaching at the MLB level then its probably the right way to do it. Baseball more than any sport has multiple ways to do things. I say that as long as the player is getting his job done then it should be okay.

I find it hard to believe that's what's being taught at ANY level. If for some reason I'm wrong about that, the justification COULD be that the hands of a MLB catcher are that much better than the hands of a catcher at lower levels, that he can get away with doing that. However, I don't buy it!

I am not saying that it is right or wrong but the guy is on the Rays roster as we speak. If you block a pitch you are going to have a hard time throwing out someone stealing. Pick the ball and you have a better chance. My son had very few passed balls this year at HS so something is working.

quote:

Originally posted by daveccpa:
I am not saying that it is right or wrong but the guy is on the Rays roster as we speak. If you block a pitch you are going to have a hard time throwing out someone stealing. Pick the ball and you have a better chance. My son had very few passed balls this year at HS so something is working.

A ball in the dirt will be tough throw even if picked, and if it gets away runner can take 3rd as well.

Again,

The default approach to blocking should NEVER be to pick a fast ball. The risk far outweighs the reward. No throw to 2B is a guaranteed out, let alone on a ball in the dirt. However, if a catcher attempts to field the ball in the dirt there is a very good chance that ball will be missed or it could affect the catcher's throwing mechanics, thus leading to an inaccurate throw to 2B. I would always rather have the runner safe at 2B on a clean block by the catcher than safe at 3B after an errant throw or passed ball.

If it is late in a game with more than a two-run lead, would I have a problem with a catcher occasionally making an attempt to cut the runner down by picking the ball and throwing to 2B? Not at all. Situationally, it might be the right play. But to teach it to a catcher as "the" way to do it is foolish. I can tell you that when I am out looking at a catcher, his propensity to drop and block a pitch with his body weighs heavily in my evaluation of his defensive skill-set.


Also, just wanted to throw this out there. http://www.hardballtimes.com/m...-one-bites-the-dust/

Here's an advanced statistics article I ran across a while back calculating MLB catcher's ability to block. It is a bit curious that Tampa Bay has had four of the top 13 worst blocking catchers in the league over the last 4 seasons (Molina, Jaso, Navarro and Shoppach). Just something to consider. Their organizational philosophy in regards to this skill seems to be lacking the results to back it up.

It is great if your son is having some success keeping pitches in front. There is certainly something to say about a catcher's athleticism and ability to improvise during a game, but continuing to rely on his glove to stop fastballs in the dirt is going to catch up with him at some point, especially when the pitch velocities get up over 80 MPH consistently.

quote:

A ball in the dirt will be tough throw even if picked, and if it gets away runner can take 3rd as well.

Sure bad things can happen, so can good things not directly related to making an out. Many teams take off on any pitch heading for the dirt hoping the catcher will block it, thereby conceding the base. If your catcher picks the ball and makes a decent throw the offensive team will reconsider its strategy the next time.

I feel its very similiar to 1st and 3rd situations in HS, the defensvie play call is not always about making the out, its often about effecting future offensive strategy i.e. 1st and 3rd, you can concede the stolen base and it will get stolen over and over and over again, or you can try and make the runner pay for it which will also make the offensive team reconsider its options in the next 1st and 3rd situation.

Of coursem the defensive options will be limited by the catchers abilty and training.

And the ones that don't get picked? Going on balls in the dirt is very difficult to do if you have an athletic catcher. I will take my chances.

The one's that don't get picked result in the runner getting second base, the same result if the catcher blocked the ball. Its very rare for a runner going on the pitch to get thrown out on a blocked ball.

quote:

Originally posted by CollegeParentNoMore:
The one's that don't get picked result in the runner getting second base, the same result if the catcher blocked the ball. Its very rare for a runner going on the pitch to get thrown out on a blocked ball.

I assume you are talking aboot a runner that is attempting to steal the base, not just going once the ball is in the dirt, 2 totally different things.

quote:

assume you are talking aboot a runner that is attempting to steal the base, not just going once the ball is in the dirt, 2 totally different things.

Generally yes, sometimes you can't tell the difference To be more specific, the catcher must decide based upon the runners "jump/speed" etc. whether or not he has a decent shot at a runner with a pick.

We used to teach our catchers to pick with the backhand on "sure" steal. (Without runner at 3B of course)

You give up 2B with the block. If the pick goes through the runner is still at 2B. The pick on backhand side gives you a chance at the out without any penalty. The block just guarantees no play at all at 2B.

We also would teach them to block on everything else.

The fake steal can come into play at times. However fake steal requires runner getting back to 1B in a hurry, so the ball has to get all the way through for them to advance. Runners reading ball in dirt and then taking off are hoping for the catcher to block rather than clean pick. A good catcher will either pick it clean or stop the ball most of the time. I have seen runners thrown out on the picked ball. Don't think I've ever seen a runner thrown out on a blocked ball. Catchers need to be intelligent enough to know what is going on.

quote:

Here's an advanced statistics article I ran across a while back calculating MLB catcher's ability to block. It is a bit curious that Tampa Bay has had four of the top 13 worst blocking catchers in the league over the last 4 seasons (Molina, Jaso, Navarro and Shoppach). Just something to consider. Their organizational philosophy in regards to this skill seems to be lacking the results to back it up.

CCJR,

Guess I'm not thinking that picking the pitch is appropriate whenever a runner is at 1B. In most cases blocking the ball is most important. I'm only talking about when the catcher knows the runner is going.

I think you would agree that the statistics above do not necessarily relate to picking. Any pitch in the dirt is a wild pitch rather than a passed ball. Maybe a more interesting statistic is which catchers are winning the most games and which teams have the best pitching staff. Besides how do they accurately figure out who the worst blockers are? Most wild pitches? Most passed balls? Runner advances? or most failed opportunities to block a pitch no matter the situation? Guess I really don't know how they come up with any true accurate numbers.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
…I think you would agree that the statistics above do not necessarily relate to picking. Any pitch in the dirt is a wild pitch rather than a passed ball. Maybe a more interesting statistic is which catchers are winning the most games and which teams have the best pitching staff. Besides how do they accurately figure out who the worst blockers are? Most wild pitches? Most passed balls? Runner advances? or most failed opportunities to block a pitch no matter the situation? Guess I really don't know how they come up with any true accurate numbers.

Hardball Times is notorious for coming up with stats that on the face look like they explain everything from the meaning of life to where all the dark matter is. Trouble is, they are often like that one, extremely complex while proving absolutely nothing. In the end, it should be pretty simple. How many pitches are thrown vs. how many are caught. The difference is how many had the chance to be “blocked”. Subtract the number that got past the catcher, and you have the number that were blocked.

I coach to block everything all the time.  I have little patience for players who do their best some of the time.   

 

Too soon our playing days are over.  I have never heard anyone say, I wish I wouldn't have tried so hard.  Complete effort is our only way to say thanks for the ability we were given. 

Thread resurrect. My 14 YO son honed his blocking ability by catching for some wildly inconsistent, hard-throwing pitchers at the 11 and 12u levels. He blocks anything if he can get to it with runners on and 2 strikes. He will occasionally pick FBs with no runners on and < 2 strikes. Especially if it is hot and humid like DC summers usually are, to conserve energy. His coaches have, so far, learned to trust his discretion, again, especially when brutally hot.

 

Home plate umpire appreciates these types of catchers especially when no runners are on base  

 

It becomes harder as the pitching speed and quality gets better to block a true fast ball that becomes unexpectedly wild especially if you are set-up somewhere else expecting good location

I agree 100%.  Especially for a 13 year old that is new to catching.  Use every pitch as an opportunity to practice.  It will form good habits and instincts, impress the coach, and show the opposing team you mean business.