Bonds took steroids

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
A few years back when the indictment came out along with the Mitchell report, there were some intense discussions on the HSBBW about whether he did or didn't. People disagreed strongly and vehemently...and the issue was left unresolved to an extent.

Whether he did or didn't doesn't bother me one way or the other. Baseball let it happen. In my book, Bonds' records stand.

Like the rest of the players who admitted to using, by mistake mostly , and the ones where the evidence is overwhelming but haven't owned up, it will be a long time before he makes the trip to Cooperstown.

Funny, we were just discussing this the other day.
Steroids don't make one a more skillful hitter or pitcher. More power perhaps but mostly it aids in recovery.

I do beleive that Bonds purposefully took something that would enhance his performance, and be in the game everyday to achieve that record. I don't buy into that he didn't know that what he was taking.

What did him in was his pompous attitude towards everyone. I don't ever see him getting to Cooperstown either.

He got caught doing what a lot of players have done. There will always be questions as to records from that time period.

As far as I am concerned, it's done, it's over, let it go, there are so many other things in this world that need fixing.

What is the concession? In Bond's Grand Jury testimony, which was officially and publically released a couple of years ago, he said that he took both the cream (testosterone for masking) and the clear (anabolic steroid). He also said that he didn't know what he was taking--a stance most of us disbelieve.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Steroids don't make one a more skillful hitter or pitcher. More power perhaps but mostly it aids in recovery.

Some believe they make your eyes 'faster'.

3FG,
this is what I was referencing in terms of the "concession:"

"Bonds testified that he had received and used clear and cream substances from his personal strength trainer, Greg Anderson, during the 2003 baseball season but was told they were the nutritional supplement flaxseed oil and a rubbing balm for arthritis, according to a transcript of his testimony reviewed by The Chronicle.
Federal prosecutors confronted Bonds during his testimony on Dec. 4, 2003, with documents indicating he had used steroids and human growth hormone during a three-year assault on baseball's home run record, but the Giants star denied the allegations."


I don't think he testified to any knowledge on the use of steroids and denied their use. Since then, he had steadfastly remained in the same position. To my knowledge, his attorney's opening is the first acknowledgment, traceable into the Bonds camp, that he took synthetic steroids.

Steroids allow one to move more bulk at the same speed. That results in increased bat speed. That results in more power and also makes hitting easier.

The results don't transfer quite as directly with pitchers. It helps some more than others.

Didn't he claim to use the cream and the clear on his knees?
Anything else he used, yes could have produced more power.

If its absorbed into your system, you can rub it anywhere.

And there is no maybe to whether it creates more power. People take steroids because they work.

Regrettably, [or maybe thankfully] there are a lot of negative side effects that give plenty of reasons not to do it.

I wish I could find the article but I can't, that stated that Bonds had hit only a very few Hrs(single digits if I remember correctly) of over 450 feet up till the late 1990's. Then he turns into this cartoonish looking character and hits another thirty or forty bombs over 450 with many over 500 feet. This wasn't from the recupirtive powers of steroids alone. If all your fly balls and liners gain 40 or 50 feet and you're bigger and stronger in every way, it aids your performance spectacuarly, especially if you are already elite as Bonds was. What do sprinters, long jumpers, high jumpers gain from steroids that baseball players also gain. Explosiveness as well as power. Powerlifters need this as much as they need extra strength. This is what a baseball player also gains whether in bat speed or off the mound. It is a copout to only say that steroids help recupiration and that is the advantagethey give an athlete. Unless you've ever seen what they do up close and over a period of time, I don't think most people here have a real idea of what they can do for an athlete.

They do work, they do aid in recovery so that the next day you can go out and do it all over again. They are (were) not necessarily taken to get bigger like football players or wrestlers. It can't make you something you are not, if so all those milb who take it (yes some still do) would be superstars.

It gives you the ability to feel better sooner while the other guy is recouperating. Losing playing time and missing his at bats, his innings on the mound. If you personally know of any players than you would understand what the ML game can do to you playing almost 8-9 months. If you know of any player during that era you would hear the stories. If you go on the DL you lose time, that means it will take you longer to get your service time needed for FA or just for a ML contract.

Thankfully things have more or less cleared out at this point, you pretty much know your teammate is clean.

And they know what they are (were) doing because it is taken in cycles, they knew when to stop and start the cycle so that they would pass testing. You mean to tell me Bonds didn't question what he was taking, or that Clemens didn't know waht was being shot up his butt? The creme, I got an issue with that, could be confusing if the player is taking it in other ways.

Bonds went overboard, again he had such a pompous attitude thinking that no one would question the great Barry Bonds that he did more than rub it on his knee. That's where he messed up.

I'd like to see him get his due, but I would like to see all the others as well.

How much money do you think Anderson is getting?

The answer is how much Barry values getting in the hall, and staying out of jail. My guess is at least 2 million.
How much is a year or two of your life worth?

How much is your soul worth?
IMO Anderson's is worthless because the devil probably already has it.

Barry Bonds was a great baseball player long before he was ever accused of taking steroids. He wasn't ever very user friendly to the media, that's for sure and that was never forgotten my media types. Voting Barry Bonds into the HOF based on his statistics and contribution to the game (a standard by which others have been inducted) is not only right but would provide endless repeated opportunities for father-mother/son-daughter discussions about sport ethics, morals, right choices and disappointment. The Baseball Writers Association of America and the Veterans Committee to some extent need to get to the business of selecting players without peeking into their skeleton riddled closets. Were they a great baseball player ala(Pete Rose - a poster child)? What about the players whose dark secrets weren't placed in the public forum? Acknowledging the frailness of the human condition instead of burning athletes at the stake inquisition style would be a refreshing change of pace.

her we go again

quote:

Originally posted by PA Dino:
Barry Bonds was a great baseball player long before he was ever accused of taking steroids. He wasn't ever very user friendly to the media, that's for sure and that was never forgotten my media types. Voting Barry Bonds into the HOF based on his statistics and contribution to the game (a standard by which others have been inducted) is not only right but would provide endless repeated opportunities for father-mother/son-daughter discussions about sport ethics, morals, right choices and disappointment. The Baseball Writers Association of America and the Veterans Committee to some extent need to get to the business of selecting players without peeking into their skeleton riddled closets. Were they a great baseball player ala(Pete Rose - a poster child)? What about the players whose dark secrets weren't placed in the public forum? Acknowledging the frailness of the human condition instead of burning athletes at the stake inquisition style would be a refreshing change of pace.

So you are saying that it is ok to lie and cheat into the HOF, and getting in should be based on statistics alone?
I admit that everyone has skeletons in the closets, where do you draw the line? It's ok to bet in baseball when the rules say you can't and it's ok to take steroids when the rules say you can't, yet because of one's exceptional skills it doesn't matter?

quote:

Some believe they make your eyes 'faster'.

Steroids do enhance eye sight, one of the first failings of an aging hitter. And they certainly allow one to add mass, in that even head size increases (hard to believe Bonds head could get bigger but it certainly did).

In his case, the end doesn't justify the means for me.

Although I don't feel a particular compulsion to defend a position that I haven't taken perhaps it will serve to clarify what I did say....

quote:

Barry Bonds was a great baseball player long before he was ever accused of taking steroids.

My opinion from watching him play pre-steroid era....He really was pretty good, just ask him. As a Pittsburgh Pirate fan, I'd give anything to get a talent like that back.

quote:

He wasn't ever very user friendly to the media, that's for sure and that was never forgotten my media types.

Barry certainly didn't suck up to the media....he didn't even suck up to his head coach......ask Jim Leyland.

Is it ok to lie and cheat your way into the HOF?

The HOF is no benchmark to delinate the gravity of all sins including lying or cheating. It is generally wrong to lie and cheat period, as a lawyer, police officer, accountant, truck driver or a baseball player. In order to apply a blanket rule to the HOF regarding cheating and lying, you would have to kick out all those that are in that had cheated and lied which is quite dubious.

Do I think getting in should be based on statistics alone?

Here is what I said, ".....into the HOF based on his statistics and contribution to the game (a standard by which others have been inducted)" Is the HOF truly a "nice guy" contest?

Where do you draw the line?

In fact, I might ask "Why draw the line at all? Or, "How could you possibly draw the line? Or maybe better, "Why don't we let each person, each parent, each individual draw their own line.

The HOF is not some litmus test of personal character. We are not holding every member up and placing them on a plaque to say, "Look kid, this is what you must aspire to." The HOF says, "This is a unique player, extremely talented, contributed xyz to the game of baseball and in him these traits or characteristics are something you might incorporate into your own life........and because he is/was human....these things you want to try to leave behind." To do otherwise is to try to create a universe of super heroes, captain america's, infallible gods of baseball. If you want to try to lie to kids that way well then....keep Barry Bonds and Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe and whoever else committed a sin out of the HOF.

quote:

Originally posted by 3up-3down:
How much money do you think Anderson is getting?
The answer is how much Barry values getting in the hall, and staying out of jail. My guess is at least 2 million......

My guess is paying a potential adverse witness to refrain from testifying is illegal, and I guess that the Feds watch carefully for signs of payment.

I'm sure he just "trusts" Barry to treat him right later. Of course you can trust this guy, right? Cheated on his wife? No problem. Lied under oath? No problem.

As particular as this guy was about his diet, vitamins, his exact pre-game routine, etc. don't even try to tell anyone that he had no idea those things he was rubbing in were for performance enhancement-that just isn't credible.

He will never get in the HOF, partly because of his continual and flagrant lying, with his own body being "Exhibit A", partly because he's a flaming jerk,and partly because of the taint that permeates all of the record-breaking home run shows of his era.

I'll be glad when his trial is over, but trials in California seem to go forever-is O.J.'s case over yet? It is time to just move on, baseball is doing just fine without him and without rampant steroids...and the NFL is about to hand the MLB the biggest boost it could get for the World Series ratings-no football.

quote:

It is time to just move on

Bingo. I can't beleive we are wasting one dime of taxpayer money on this much less the millions that have been flushed down the toilet.

For those that remember, who used
Dimethyl sulfoxide?

IMHO. B Bonds will be in the HoF, long before Pete Rose!

The first time I heard of DMSO it was being used by hockey players.

quote:

Originally posted by AntzDad:
The first time I heard of DMSO it was being used by hockey players.

Frank was one of the last ones to get the memo,
and eventually put the stuff in his Zamboni.
That was around 1949!

I agree with TPM. A lot of players took and still continue to take steroids. Records aside, It's Bonds horrible attitude towards others that got him in the spotlight. There are a lot of players that need an attitude check

I used DMSO once back in my racehorse days. Pulled both my hammies trying to control and stay on a crazy filly. I succeeded, but paid the price. One of my co-workers said here, try this. I put some liniment on my legs, then the DMSO, then wrapped them both up and spent the afternoon on the couch. I was ready to ride again the next day. Amazing stuff.

30 years later (2010), I pulled them both again the day after Thanksgiving trying to work off that turkey weight all in one day. I did not succeed. But one of them still hurts today! Ah, the good old days.

But I digress.

I'm sick of hearing about Bonds, too. I may be the only one, but steroids or no steroids, Barry Bonds or Joe Schmo, I still think a price should be paid for perjury.

Is there nothing better to talk about in late March than Barry Bonds? Sheesh!

I'd think that people would want to talk about the start of the MLB season, or college baseball or high school baseball, more than about something that is old news. How about we talk about the reigning World Series Champions, the San Francisco Giants, Barry's old team?

And with regard to DMSO, it's great stuff! I had a variety of injuries that I sustained in karate over a few years. That stuff really helped make me feel good enough to get back in the dojo time and again. Now that I'm in my fifties, there are days when I'd really like to have a little of that magic elixir to rub on sore muscles and joints.

I just wish MLB was more like the NCAA in that they said Reggie Bush violated rule X and took his Heisman Trophy away.
If Bonds took steroids he was cheating plain and simple. He along with the other roid heads should not even be in the top home run hitter list. If it were up to me the list would be as follows;

1 Hank Aaron
2 Babe Ruth
3 Willie Mays
4 Ken Griffey, Jr.
5 Jim Thome
6 Frank Robinson
7 Harmon Killebrew
8 Reggie Jackson
9 Mike Schmidt
10 Mickey Mantle

I am assuming Thome is clean, but if he was juicing then Jimmie Foxx would still be in the top 10.

Very interesting testimony in bonds trial recently. Not really following it, but mistress is on the stand. Must read for any male thinking about using.... Don't have a link, think I read it on cnn

quote:

Originally posted by Vector:
I just wish MLB was more like the NCAA...

I wouldn't want anything more like the NCAA.

Vector - Dead on.