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Bowl Game punishments

YoungGunDadYoungGunDadHSBaseballWeb member since 2005
Why? Why? Why?

Why does it always have to happen the week or day before these Bowl games are about to be played?? I mean, those who get punished for being Academically ineligible shouldn't be shocked when they are told. They already KNOW in their own minds that they didn't take care of business in the class room all semester. They deserve what they get. Hopefully lessons learned.

But it's these below that really infuriate me on so many levels. Yes, they were out after curfew and broke team rules. A lapse of judgement on what and where they were after that. But, how many times have we read or heard this same song and dance with a female only to learn later things were consensual and/or she was as just to blame as anyone. Sexual assault is a serious accusation but, at this point that is all this is and perhaps could ruin these 2 young men's lives as they know it.

Just a sad story all the way around.

Texas players sent home

"The difference between excellence and mediocrity is commitment." Twitter: @KwwJ829

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M Matt1310,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
Why? Why? Why?

Why does it always have to happen the week or day before these Bowl games are about to be played?? I mean, those who get punished for being Academically ineligible shouldn't be shocked when they are told. They already KNOW in their own minds that they didn't take care of business in the class room all semester. They deserve what they get. Hopefully lessons learned.

But it's these below that really infuriate me on so many levels. Yes, they were out after curfew and broke team rules. A lapse of judgement on what and where they were after that. But, how many times have we read or heard this same song and dance with a female only to learn later things were consensual and/or she was as just to blame as anyone. Sexual assault is a serious accusation but, at this point that is all this is and perhaps could ruin these 2 young men's lives as they know it.

Just a sad story all the way around.

Texas players sent home


Very few times is it consensual when it is reported, nor is the victim EVER to blame.

I did this very subject for one of my theses. I discovered that for every 1000 sexual assaults, there are about three false reports. That has also been borne out by my career in criminal investigations.
jemazjemaz1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
Why? Why? Why?

Why does it always have to happen the week or day before these Bowl games are about to be played?? I mean, those who get punished for being Academically ineligible shouldn't be shocked when they are told. They already KNOW in their own minds that they didn't take care of business in the class room all semester. They deserve what they get. Hopefully lessons learned.

But it's these below that really infuriate me on so many levels. Yes, they were out after curfew and broke team rules. A lapse of judgement on what and where they were after that. But, how many times have we read or heard this same song and dance with a female only to learn later things were consensual and/or she was as just to blame as anyone. Sexual assault is a serious accusation but, at this point that is all this is and perhaps could ruin these 2 young men's lives as they know it.

Just a sad story all the way around.

Texas players sent home


I know something about this one. I would not be so quick to absolve the players. Plus, they should never have put themselves in such a situation like this. If their lives are ruined, they earned it. Sexual assault is a serious crime that needs to be punished severely. The life I am most concerned about belongs to the victim.
PD PA Dino500+ posts
YoungGunDad,

quote:
Sexual assault is a serious accusation but, at this point that is all this is and perhaps could ruin these 2 young men's lives as they know it.


I agree.

Matt13,

quote:
I did this very subject for one of my theses. I discovered that for every 1000 sexual assaults, there are about three false reports. That has also been borne out by my career in criminal investigations.


I disagree.

jemaz,

quote:
Sexual assault is a serious crime that needs to be punished severely.


I agree.
YoungGunDadYoungGunDadHSBaseballWeb member since 2005
Please understand that by no means am I condoning anything these players MAY have done especially if sexual assault DID occur. You're right, they do deserver whatever punishment this would bring upon them. They definintely were not where they were suppose to be from the get-go.

However, reading this portion below just seems to really rub me wrong about this story. Alcohol, an invitation back to her room, etc. Seems very fishy to me.

A heavily redacted police report says the event occurred Friday morning from 2:00-2:40 a.m. when a 21-year-old woman invited two men to her hotel room. The report shows only that the men are students and that one is 21 and the other is 20. The woman told police that she had several drinks at a nightclub and the hotel bar before she invited the men to her room.

"I don't exactly remember," she said, according to the report.

The woman said one of the men had *** with her while the other "just stood there and watched," the report states.

"I don't quite remember," she repeated, according to the report.

Just saying.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
So you are saying that she lured them back to the hotel?

Maybe she did, but the bottom line is that THEY HAD NO BUSINESS BEING THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I used to say to my kids when younger, no good happens after 12am.

I don't in the least feel badly for these players, even if falsely accused.

Just sayin.....
Last edited by TPM
YoungGunDadYoungGunDadHSBaseballWeb member since 2005
I don't think she lured them TPM. Im sure it was consensual on all parts. It just strikes me weird when she just keeps saying "I don't remember..." over and over. I guess in due time the truth will come out. And as I said before they definitely were not where they were suppose to be and deserved to be suspended. All the other players knew the rules and obeyed.

Congrats to the Longhorn team for winning and not letting this distraction stop them from playing their hearts out. I agree with you completely Fenway on all points.

My earlier "why? why? why" was more of a cry to when will these young men ever learn? smh
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by PA Dino:
YoungGunDad,



Matt13,

[QUOTE] I did this very subject for one of my theses. I discovered that for every 1000 sexual assaults, there are about three false reports. That has also been borne out by my career in criminal investigations.


quote:
I disagree.


Why would that be? Do you question his research? His math? His real life experiences?

Do you have facts and stats thst state otherwise?

Or do you just disagree with no real reason?
Last edited by Jimmy03
M Matt1310,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:
quote:
Originally posted by PA Dino:
YoungGunDad,



Matt13,

[QUOTE] I did this very subject for one of my theses. I discovered that for every 1000 sexual assaults, there are about three false reports. That has also been borne out by my career in criminal investigations.


quote:
I disagree.


Why would that be? Do you question his research? His math? His real life experiences?

Do you have facts and stats thst state otherwise?

Or do you just disagree with no real reason?


This is the "professional" who has stated that sexual assault is often a matter of miscommunication. He also has stated there are no leaders in urban communities.

Take that as you will.
PD PA Dino500+ posts
quote:
Why would that be? Do you question his research? His math? His real life experiences?

Do you have facts and stats thst state otherwise?

Or do you just disagree with no real reason?


Based on my training and experience; I find that the statistic three in one thousand is a gross underestimate of the frequency of false reporting for *** crimes.

I graduated from the PA State Police Academy, Bureau of Training and Education.

Entered the field of law enforcement where I worked and was paid for twenty five years as a professional both in patrol and as a detective.

I personally conducted hundreds of *** crimes investigations as a criminal investigator for thirteen years for the same department.

I was further trained by the Public Agency Training Council on *** Crimes Investigations and by the PA District Attorney's Institute on Child Sexual Abuse Investigation.

I was qualified as and testified in Commonwealth Court as an expert in the field of sexual assault.

Many cases I investigated were litigated further in higher courts in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

Arrests I have made have resulted in the incarceration of the accused anywhere from just a few months to 85 years.

I have interviewed countless victims and suspects and have received further training in the Kinesic Interview and interrogation techniques.

It has been my experience that victims are forced into falsely reporting not only the actual crime of sexual assault but details surrounding the incident due to a variety of social and personal reasons.

Three in one thousand would accurately reflect the FBI UCR reporting of the false reports that actually make it to the investigative stage. But there are far more instances when the investigator knows that the victim is making up details and using face saving language that colors the truth of the incident. As a result, most often the case is carried as unsolved or not cleared and is never given the statistical reporting that research would uncover.

That is why I disagree. I'm sure his research was diligent and I am sure he has a different opinion which he is certainly entitled to.
M Matt1310,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by PA Dino:
quote:
Why would that be? Do you question his research? His math? His real life experiences?

Do you have facts and stats thst state otherwise?

Or do you just disagree with no real reason?


Based on my training and experience; I find that the statistic three in one thousand is a gross underestimate of the frequency of false reporting for *** crimes.

I graduated from the PA State Police Academy, Bureau of Training and Education.

Entered the field of law enforcement where I worked and was paid for twenty five years as a professional both in patrol and as a detective.

I personally conducted hundreds of *** crimes investigations as a criminal investigator for thirteen years for the same department.

I was further trained by the Public Agency Training Council on *** Crimes Investigations and by the PA District Attorney's Institute on Child Sexual Abuse Investigation.

I was qualified as and testified in Commonwealth Court as an expert in the field of sexual assault.

Many cases I investigated were litigated further in higher courts in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

Arrests I have made have resulted in the incarceration of the accused anywhere from just a few months to 85 years.

I have interviewed countless victims and suspects and have received further training in the Kinesic Interview and interrogation techniques.

It has been my experience that victims are forced into falsely reporting not only the actual crime of sexual assault but details surrounding the incident due to a variety of social and personal reasons.

Three in one thousand would accurately reflect the FBI UCR reporting of the false reports that actually make it to the investigative stage. But there are far more instances when the investigator knows that the victim is making up details and using face saving language that colors the truth of the incident. As a result, most often the case is carried as unsolved or not cleared and is never given the statistical reporting that research would uncover.

That is why I disagree. I'm sure his research was diligent and I am sure he has a different opinion which he is certainly entitled to.


It wasn't just UCR--that's where the the raw data for reports came from. I then utilized data from NCVS to approximate the the actual number of crimes. Then I performed a sample of local LEAs from across the US, adjusting for a variety of factors, of their reports and dispositions. Throw all the numbers in the magic stats blender, and that's where my findings led.

I chose this because I wanted to see if my experience matched what was really happening. Relying on one's one experience to make a blanket statement is dangerous, because we have a tendency towards confirmation bias--we focus on information that supports our notion, and ignore that which doesn't.
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
Matt13,
3 in 1000 is a startling number, if we take it in the context of this thread. Do you really mean to say that of 1000 reports of sexual assault--more specifically reports of sexual assault in which sexual activity is acknowledged by all parties--that only 3 of the reports are false? How could you possible know? Or do you mean of 1000 reports that are then prosecuted, only 3 result in acquittal? Or of the reports which are subsequently themselves carefully investigated and a conclusion (other than no charges) is formed, 3 are deemed to have been false?

And do you really mean to say that even if the report is false, the reporter is not to blame? Or do you just mean that if an assault truly occurred, the victim can't be blamed?
Last edited by 3FingeredGlove
M Matt1310,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
Matt13,
3 in 1000 is a startling number, if we take it in the context of this thread. Do you really mean to say that of 1000 reports of sexual assault--more specifically reports of sexual assault in which sexual activity is acknowledged by all parties--that only 3 of the reports are false? How could you possible know? Or do you mean of 1000 reports that are then prosecuted, only 3 result in acquittal? Or of the reports which are subsequently themselves carefully investigated and a conclusion (other than no charges) is formed, 3 are deemed to have been false?


The conclusion was that for every thousand sexual assaults (reported and unreported,) about three false reports occurred. It was a very complex methodology--I had to evaluate reports based on why or why not they were charged, the outcome if there was acquittal or dismissal, etc. It was a quantitative evaluation using the threshold of preponderance of the evidence, and having two colleagues independently evaluate the reports for their opinion of veracity of the alleged victim.

It is startling, because one needs to keep in mind that about 90% of sexual assaults are not reported. That means that even if half of all sexual assault reports were false, it would still be only five out of every hundred sexual assaults.


quote:
Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
And do you really mean to say that even if the report is false, the reporter is not to blame? Or do you just mean that if an assault truly occurred, the victim can't be blamed?


The latter. I don't believe anything I said indicates the former.

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