Brown (& other Ivy League schools)

The Ivies and the Patriot League do not give any academic monies to their students. Their financial aid is based solely on need. However, if a student earns a National Merit Scholarship (or other scholarship), he can use that money towards his tuition (but again, it is not given to that student by the Ivy or Patriot school). If you heard that Brown was giving academic money - you may be referring to a situation that occurred a couple of years ago, when Brown got into trouble with the NCAA and other Ivy institutions for allowing its Brown Sports Foundation (not officially attached to Brown) to give money to some of the Brown athletes. For this infraction - and it was considered MAJOR by many of the Ivies except Brown - they lost certain recruiting numbers for football and s****r (and other sports I think),lost their right to vie for football title the next year,and the head of the Sports Foundation was removed. There really is no academic money from these schools - the Ivy conference was created as a sports conference with this assumption in mind.

Backing up NY Mom here.

Confirming:

No athletic money. Well known fact.
No academic money. Less well known.

Most Ivies commit to offering financial aid packages that meet 100% of the student need after the Estimated Family Contribution as calculated by FAFSA is applied to the school costs. Some of the schools (many?) also use an alternate EFC calculation. Make sure you figure out which formula applies to you. The formulas do not calculate the same EFC amounts.

Most of the money comes from private scholarships funded by school endowments. Some of the money is federal.

At our house the need based 'General Scholarship' is called a baseball scholarship because that is how we like to think about it.

My 05 recieved a letter from an Ivy leauge school yesterday from the head coach. Says he saw him play last week at East Cobb at the 17 & under championship and liked what he saw. Asked him to fill out questionaire and send video tape of him in batting practice. He is very excited. He is a good student, but not great. Around 1100 on SAT. Financially, we are getting by, but not wealthy. My first thoughts were no way can we pull this off, but didn't want to discourage his enthusiasm. Should we pursue this?

TX05Dad,

IMHO, pursue it. You might find out you would be paying less than sending your son to "state U". Yes there are those who can write a check for the whole amount without batting an eyelash, but there are many more who pay very little. I know I am paying less than if my son was going to CU or CSU.

My nephew graduated from Princeton and since his dad is a missionary overseas who makes very little had next to nothing to pay.

Hope this helps,
Frank

Thanks Frank F. That's the info I needed.

MDHSBBFAN,

My son will be in the freshman class at Brown at a RHP this fall (next month!). Coach Drabinsky spent a week with him at Best in Virginia camp last July. When he first started calling and writing, we told him that we appreciated his interest, but that there was no way we could handle it financially. I am a teacher and my husband is a counselor. Well, as several of the other posters have said, we will wind up paying about the same as we would have paid at our in-state public colleges. If your son is truly interested, don't let the financial aspect stop your family from exploring the possibilities. Families of prospective athletes are allowed to complete a FAFSA-type form in the fall that will give you a solid idea of what your family contribution would be. We found last October's estimate to jive completely with what our real bill was this summer. The Ivies have huge endowments and are able to give lots of grant money that is considered "need" money......not scholarship money per se........but from your pocketbook's point of view it is all the same. We choose to look at this grant money as a baseball "scholarship" also. Good luck and accept that official visit if it's offered!

Peach...Isn't it exciting getting him ready for the fall and the college experience?

My son is going to P and we likely will play Brown once or twice in the springtime.

Catch you down the road.

Hot dog and coke on me.

Sounds great, Beenthere!
I went to Big Lots and KMart today and bought a year's supply of toothpaste, shampoo, deodorant, etc. for Rob. It was so much fun. Guess we'll buy a couple of cases of Gatorade to stick under his bed when we get there! He's our last, so my emotions are mixed......but overall JEALOUS of the incredible experiences he is about to have!
Hope to meet you in the spring.

This info might be of some comfort those parents of ballplayers attracting the attention of Ivy schools.

The student newspaper of an Ivy school recently published the following statistics about the financial aid offered to the entering freshman class. The average scholarship offered to students receiving financial aid is worth just over $24K. $11.7M of scholarship money is invested in the freshman class this year.

Many times the figures given for "average aid offered" includes loans. While the $24K per student is generous, to truly compare apples to apples, parents should ask for a breakdown from the financial aid office specifically to determine what portion are grants that do not have to be paid back. A lot of schools will claim that they meet 100% of every student's need. While this sounds great, it can be misleading. One needs to ask what determines need and is the amount met with loans or grants. Home equity loans are usually a better deal than many of the federal loans or private loans offered through the institution. Also, factors to determine need vary from school to school. Those schools relying only on the federal formulas (FAFSA) do not include home equity or retirement funds (IRA's, 401k's, etc) in making a need determination. Institutions that use the College Board needs form look at everything. Most private schools use the latter in determining need.

You can get an idea of your need by filling out both the FAFSA form and the CSS/Profile through the College Board. You can access FAFSA at fafsa.ed.gov. The CSS/Profile can be found at the College Board site, CollegeBoard.org. If you have two children in college (no matter where they attend - private, public, expensive, inexpensive) you will find whatever your need is, it will be doubled, and tripled with three children in college. (The need is defined by "EC" - estimated contribution. That is your contribution minus the budget expenses of the institution). By completing the applications you will be given this "EC". Every school has a determined budget (that can be found online usually) which includes tuition, books, fees, misc. The difference between the budget and your EC is what you will be eligible to receive through the federal government and or the institution. You do not have to wait until your son is accepted to complete these forms. In fact, it's a good idea to complete them prior to the senior year to give you a rough idea where you stand. It will help when the contacts begin and the tuition costs are discussed.

Buddy, you are the dark cloud that hovers over Eeyore as he traverses the Hundred Acre Wood!

I have come to appreciate your insight as it regards D1/D3 comparisions, though I believe that you spin your information with a negative tone.

Parents, if & when you receive an offer for financial aid (FA) to an Ivy institution (or any other, I'm sure) it will be very clear which portions of the FA package is a loan and which portion is a scholarship grant.

As far as FAFSA ignoring 401K information, I suggest that Buddy do a little investigative research before making inaccurate posts. Worksheet B of the FAFSA (item WB1) specifically asks for payments to tax deferred pension & savings plans. These amounts are reported in the W2 form in boxes 12a-12d.

dbg - Your response is one reason these posts have spun out of control and I'm not making excuses for my behavior - criticism against a poster based on his/her post should be thought out carefully after all the facts are investigated. My information was not inaccurate. The FAFSA does indeed ask for information related to retirement accounts as well as taxes paid, Keough contributions, etc. However, these are not included in the formula that determines a family's Estimated Contribution. Please contact a local college or university to confirm my statement. Also, thank you to Tom for the PM. I'll answer your question here...The primary basis for determining the EC is available assets (e.g. cash). How the assets are held, however can make a difference. Cash in your son's own account (identified with his own social security number) will increase your EC more than if the same amount of money was in your and your spouse's account(with your social security number as the identifier). Thirty percent of FAFSA applications are audited annually so do not rush to move your money now. The penalty if you are audited and found to have moved money for this purpose is far greater than then the difference would be if you left it in your son's name.

For anyone interested in running the calculations that can estimate the family contributions towards college costs, may I suggest this link. 2004-2005 FA worksheets

These are last year's worksheets for students (all classes, frosh to seniors) entering school this fall. I bet that they will still provide a pretty accurate picture of the financial commitment your family will need to make towards college expenses next year.

Also, remember early on to check with the school to determine what forms they request to determine your Estimated Contribution. There are two different applications - The College Board's CSS Profile which has a small fee and the FAFSA which is free. The latter's formula is usually more generous in determining a lower EC.

quote:

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Originally posted by BuddyBaseball:
Thirty percent of FAFSA applications are audited annually so do not rush to move your money now. The penalty if you are audited and found to have moved money for this purpose is far greater than then the difference would be if you left it in your son's name.

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With this kind of advice, I would be sure to contact your local CPA before any move.

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