What is the talent level needed to play for a school in the Patriot League like Bucknell? Do they have talent comparable to other D1 schools or is it more like D2 or D3? Thanks.
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Bucknell is a mid major D1. On one hand they might beat a major D1 like last year when they upset Florida State in the NCAA tournament. On the other hand they might lose to a D2 power like Tampa. Bucknell would beat the D2's in the PSAC (Mansfield, Shippensburg, etc) if they played them. There is a poster with a son playing at Lafayette. Maybe he will add something.
Oh ok well if you say they would beat the PSAC teams that gives me a pretty good idea because I know most of those teams. Thank you for your response.
They are playing Virginia Tech on the 25th-27th of February. Take a ride down Rt. 81 and see how they compare to a second tier, but improving, ACC team.
I know a Junior pitcher at Navy. If I remember correctly, they lost to Bucknell in the Patriot League Playoffs.
what is the average velocity for a pitcher at Bucknell?
The pitcher we know there throws 88 top. 85 sit. The pitcher on our team at Lafayette throws 88 top 85 sit.
Velo is just a minor part of the whole scheme of the DI, DII, and DIII scenarios. There is more than one DIII school that will have 8-10 guys who can hit 90+ (see California, Texas, the host of killer DIII's in Wisconsin, and the NESCAC). It's rare, but you'll see it on occasion. It comes down to getting the outs, having the command, and getting the job done. Pitchers shouldn't write off any DIII option because of the errant thinking that you're only going to see 80-84mph.
DIII Trinity (TX) almost beat Notre Dame last spring using a freshman pitcher who pitched a helluva game.
Point is, there are great pitchers (who throw awfully hard) spread across all divisions. The bulk are at DI, of course! But the others are out there and do get noticed.
Bucknell would be a great choice all-around. Great rep, solid baseball, and pretty girls who scored much higher than you on their SATs
DIII Trinity (TX) almost beat Notre Dame last spring using a freshman pitcher who pitched a helluva game.
Point is, there are great pitchers (who throw awfully hard) spread across all divisions. The bulk are at DI, of course! But the others are out there and do get noticed.
Bucknell would be a great choice all-around. Great rep, solid baseball, and pretty girls who scored much higher than you on their SATs
But isn't it true that unless your a lefty with nasty breaking stuff, an 80-84 MPH fastball won't get you any looks from DI schools?
quote:Originally posted by MDdon2011:
But isn't it true that unless your a lefty with nasty breaking stuff, an 80-84 MPH fastball won't get you any looks from DI schools?
For the most part yes...but there are exceptions. It also doesn't mean you can't play at that level, just that you probably won't be pursued as a scholarship player.
quote:Originally posted by Krakatoa:
There is more than one DIII school that will have 8-10 guys who can hit 90+...
Krak, with all due respect, name three.
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:quote:Originally posted by Krakatoa:
There is more than one DIII school that will have 8-10 guys who can hit 90+...
Krak, with all due respect, name three.
I don't think there is a D1 school out there that fits that profile let alone a D3. justbb posted a list of Stanford pitchers (from last year) last week and maybe there were six or seven of them who threw in the 90's.
There is a lot of unjustified hype out there on velocity. PG said there are only a couple hundred of them each year coming out of high school.
In my experience, the average velocity at a D1 game is 88 mph. I am guessing at D3 it is several miles per hour slower than that on average. There are obviously exceptions to every rule.
Here is an article about one of my son's teammates who was drafted this year out of UW-Whitewater which is one of the most successful D3's in the nation. Note the velocity this coach says this kid pitches at. Also, the article details several other notable UW-Whitewater alums who have gone on to play pro baseball. FWIW...
http://www.uwwsports.com/News/...ed.asp?path=baseball
I said "can hit 90+", I didn't say that's where they live full-time when they're out on the hill. That's all I'm gonna say because deterioration of thread is the only thing that will come of it.
quote:Originally posted by Krakatoa:
I said "can hit 90+", I didn't say that's where they live full-time when they're out on the hill. That's all I'm gonna say because deterioration of thread is the only thing that will come of it.
I understand what "hit 90" means. That number gets thrown around a lot, but not hit on a gun as much as it's talked about. You made a claim, which I believe is much overstated, and simply asked you to name 3.
Quite simply, I don't believe you can. But it's not an effort to deteriorate the thread or show anyone up. Only to put realistic numbers out to people who may be reading these threads.
DIII can be very misunderstood when it comes to pitching.
Krak may have overstated slightly when he referenced 8-10. But certainly 5-6 touching 90 is not overstated at DIII. Trinity, Tx, where Krak's son attends has more than 6 who touched 90, one of whom is currently carrying a .70 ERA playing for Vermont in the Ny/Penn league. Others with 5-6 touching 90mph would be UT-Tyler and Cal Lutheran. UT-Tyler has already had a number of pitchers drafted even though it is only in its 4th-5th season of play. They bring in a ton of Texas JC kids.
CLU, for some reason, had several DI pitchers transfer in including one from USF and another from Fullerton, both of whom were in the 90-92mph range.
I am sure there are others.
On the other hand, touching 90mph does not mean they do it with command at the DIII level. A few do.
Krak may have overstated slightly when he referenced 8-10. But certainly 5-6 touching 90 is not overstated at DIII. Trinity, Tx, where Krak's son attends has more than 6 who touched 90, one of whom is currently carrying a .70 ERA playing for Vermont in the Ny/Penn league. Others with 5-6 touching 90mph would be UT-Tyler and Cal Lutheran. UT-Tyler has already had a number of pitchers drafted even though it is only in its 4th-5th season of play. They bring in a ton of Texas JC kids.
CLU, for some reason, had several DI pitchers transfer in including one from USF and another from Fullerton, both of whom were in the 90-92mph range.
I am sure there are others.
On the other hand, touching 90mph does not mean they do it with command at the DIII level. A few do.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Krakatoa:
There is more than one DIII school that will have 8-10 guys who can hit 90+ (see California, Texas, the host of killer DIII's in Wisconsin, and the NESCAC). It's rare, but you'll see it on occasion.
Sorry Krakatoa, I don't mean to burst your bubble, but I was a D-3 coach for 10 years with a nationally ranked team for most of those years, and I never saw ANY D-3 program with more than 1 pitcher throwing 90+. Didn't happen then, doesn't happen now. I agree with the rest of your comments, but let's not distort the facts. If you averaged velocities (for those who think it's the most important measuring stick), you might find something like: D-3 (84), D-2 (86), D-1 (88) and even that's a gross generalization.
There is more than one DIII school that will have 8-10 guys who can hit 90+ (see California, Texas, the host of killer DIII's in Wisconsin, and the NESCAC). It's rare, but you'll see it on occasion.
Sorry Krakatoa, I don't mean to burst your bubble, but I was a D-3 coach for 10 years with a nationally ranked team for most of those years, and I never saw ANY D-3 program with more than 1 pitcher throwing 90+. Didn't happen then, doesn't happen now. I agree with the rest of your comments, but let's not distort the facts. If you averaged velocities (for those who think it's the most important measuring stick), you might find something like: D-3 (84), D-2 (86), D-1 (88) and even that's a gross generalization.
Badgers,
Hate to burst your bubble but infielddad is correct about CLU having at least a couple pitchers touching 90 this season. It is very unusual but that is the situation this season. A few years back they had a pitcher who touched 97. On the other hand I'd say your average velocities for D3, D2 and D1 might be a bit on the high side unless they are an average of the pitcher's top velocities.
There also can be a whole lot of difference between one 90 mph fastball and another. 90 mph with movement, deception and decent location can be dominant in D1. 90 mph, flat with little deception and control but not command can be meat at almost any college level.
Hate to burst your bubble but infielddad is correct about CLU having at least a couple pitchers touching 90 this season. It is very unusual but that is the situation this season. A few years back they had a pitcher who touched 97. On the other hand I'd say your average velocities for D3, D2 and D1 might be a bit on the high side unless they are an average of the pitcher's top velocities.
There also can be a whole lot of difference between one 90 mph fastball and another. 90 mph with movement, deception and decent location can be dominant in D1. 90 mph, flat with little deception and control but not command can be meat at almost any college level.
CADad, I suppose since you only gave ONE example of ONE D-3 program with TWO pitchers "hitting 90" that I'll take that as your agreeing more with my DIRECT observations over 10 years at that level than the post that I originally responded to, which was MORE THAN ONE D-3 school with 8-10 pitchers "hitting 90+".
Anyway, this strays far from the original post, and I'm certainly not going to beat someone up over numbers. My apologies to Krakatoa.
Back to the original question, Bucknell is a solid second-tier D-1 program, a great school, and in a competitive conference. The most obvious difference between top-tier D-1 and second tier is the depth of the pitching staffs. The most obvious differences between D-1 in general and D-3 is the depth of talent period, and a noticeable difference in pitching and catching. The nationally competitive D-3 programs will by necessity have some D-1 players on their rosters, just not as many, and most will be short in at least one obvious tool.
Anyway, this strays far from the original post, and I'm certainly not going to beat someone up over numbers. My apologies to Krakatoa.
Back to the original question, Bucknell is a solid second-tier D-1 program, a great school, and in a competitive conference. The most obvious difference between top-tier D-1 and second tier is the depth of the pitching staffs. The most obvious differences between D-1 in general and D-3 is the depth of talent period, and a noticeable difference in pitching and catching. The nationally competitive D-3 programs will by necessity have some D-1 players on their rosters, just not as many, and most will be short in at least one obvious tool.
quote:Sorry Krakatoa, I don't mean to burst your bubble, but I was a D-3 coach for 10 years with a nationally ranked team for most of those years, and I never saw ANY D-3 program with more than 1 pitcher throwing 90+. Didn't happen then, doesn't happen now.
Actually this is what I was responding to. To be honest I didn't believe it when I first heard that CLU had two guys throwing 90 but it happens at the D3 level these days, still very rarely of course, because of the new rules the NCAA has put in place. Didn't happen then, does happen now.
