Budget cuts

I don't know about most districts, but I do know the district I live in that next year all sub-varsity sports will be very limited on travel for non-district and tournament games. This covers not only baseball, but all of the fall and spring sports for both boys and girls.

I haven't heard any news about cutting a whole sport out, but the non-varsity teams will be limited on how many games they play during the season.

Was at a Football booster club meeting Monday. Head coach says another head coach called to inform him that the Ft. Worth ISD has decided to cut all freshman B team games for this coming season.

Our coach asked him if he was going to cut any kids as a result. Coach said no.

Our coach asked if he planned to cut any coaches as a result. The coach said no.

Our coach asks, "So you're going to be bringing the same amount of buses, with the same amount of players and coaches just on one team instead of two?" The coach said, "Yep, that's pretty much it."


I'd say somebody fed the board some numbers without actually considering the actual implementation of their actions. Winning...

Why are there B teams in HS athletics anyway?

Roll with a freshman, JV, and Varisty team.

If you don't make one of those...move on to band, be a thespian, or play your sport with a private organization.

Not every student deserves to play an sport.

You either are good enough, or your not. If not, move on. Get over it.

Our society is weak and it's costing money.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:
Why are there B teams in HS athletics anyway?

Roll with a freshman, JV, and Varisty team.

If you don't make one of those...move on to band, be a thespian, or play your sport with a private organization.

Not every student deserves to play an sport.

You either are good enough, or your not. If not, move on. Get over it.

Our society is weak and it's costing money.

I totally agree with you KG. We know as a society that schools have adopted the policy that no child is left behind, and that doesn't just mean in the classroom.....it is also in athletics.

I mean everyone gets a trophy from 1st place to last! Come on, get with it.

Note: Some schools carry a C team in FB and Roundball.

Although I agree w/ KG's view on "B" teams, in principle, I will offer a moderate defense of the merit of such teams.

Consider the following at the sub varsity levels:
- more kids involved in athletics = more kids who have at least 1 reason to pass each class every grading period (at least in season). More kids pass = more kids graduate = more kids/adults get jobs = less unemployment, crime, gov't assistance = stronger workforce = stronger economy = greater nation. Ultimately, I just proved that there is a direct correlation b/w the number of student athletes a country has and that country's relative economic viability!

- more kids involved in fundrasing = more $$ for the athletic dept/indiv. sport = more money being spent on the kids who are still around as Jr's and Sr's (usually the better athletes). I bet the FB attrition rate at 5A schools from 9th-10th grade is 20%-40%.

- Some 9th "B" team kids wind up being impact players as Jr's and Sr's (Barkevious Mingo, DE, LSU comes to mind). These kids may have given up the sport had a "B" team not existed.

- on a macro scale, even career B/C teamers benefit from the skills/lessons learned by being involved in team sports. I'm sure every "A" team athlete can attribute some of his off-the-field success to his association w/ competitive athletics.

quote:

Originally posted by BackstopDad32:
Anywhere else doing this already or talking about it? If so what do most families do to deal with no school baseball?

We moved down from Northern Virginia. The football program had a freshman team (no B team). Baseball only had a JV and Varsity, no multiple JV teams. In 2010, there were multiple proposals--raise taxes, cut freshman football, cut this, cut that, etc...in order to cut costs. Ultimately, the board decided to scrap any proposed cuts but implemented a $100 "participation" tax, I mean fee.

I think you have to compare apples to apples. Some schools have 6,000 kids (albeit half are girls) and other schools in 5A are significantly smaller around 2,100. The 5A mark is 2,065 and up. So if one school is 3 times as large as another than it is understandable that they have more teams.

Now as far as I am concerned, I would be prefer that schools only have one Varsity baseball team and no JV or Freshmen teams. Anyone who does not make it on Varsity (regardless of grade level) can play in a league outside of school. There are far more options for baseball players to play outside of school then there are for football, but I also think if the demand was there that you would have football leagues popping up as well.

My question is, "Why are we giving academic credit for extra curricular activities like sports when most of the practice time and games are played outside of school hours?

quote:

Originally posted by HRKB:
My question is why are we giving academic credit for extra curricular activities like sports when most of the practice time and games are played outside of school hours?

Would you rather them get no credit for the class during the school day that they take for their sport? Then on top of that, they would have to have additional classes to make up for the lost hours needed to graduate that was coming from athletics. This would just make the athletes fall behind in school even worse with the additional class load, especially in season.

What about band students for example? If they are in marching band not only do they get all thier athletic credits waived but their arts credits as well. (Which I don't agree with entirely)

So HRKB you think that we should penalize any extra curricular activities by adding on classes to thier already heavy load and then not give them anything for the class that they are taking during the day and all afternoon?

What should happen is kids go to school for academic reasons.

After school they can participate in band, sports, etc.

This during the school day baseball class or those classes like it is a bunch of BS.

Give the teachers their paddles back, cut inferior athletes, and don't be afraid to fail a kid. Bring all that back and this country has a chance.

Until then, we are raising softies that will eventually vote for someone like Obama.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:
What should happen is kids go to school for academic reasons.

After school they can participate in band, sports, etc.

This during the school day baseball class or those classes like it is a bunch of BS.

Give the teachers their paddles back, cut inferior athletes, and don't be afraid to fail a kid. Bring all that back and this country has a chance.

Until then, we are raising softies that will eventually vote for someone like Obama.

And to think, I used to have respect for you Mr. Guthrie.

Mr. Guthrie,

Then they can take a statistics class and learn how to use them!

I truly hope your comments were in jest. Otherwise it would appear that you should have spent more time on academics.

I'm pretty sure I have seen some "B" teams running around in the summertime. Why not do away with those as well?
"Not every student deserves to play a sport." - a wise man once said. Get rid of those inferior members of our society b/c they don't deserve to play. Oh wait, $$$$$$$.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:
What should happen is kids go to school for academic reasons.

After school they can participate in band, sports, etc.

This during the school day baseball class or those classes like it is a bunch of BS.

Give the teachers their paddles back, cut inferior athletes, and don't be afraid to fail a kid. Bring all that back and this country has a chance.

Until then, we are raising softies that will eventually vote for someone like Obama.

Ken -- I have read many of your posts over time. Many of them I disagree with, however you absolutely hit the nail on the head with this post! My Junior High coach would stop his athletes in the hall and bust our tail "because I can tell you're thinking about screwing up".

quote:

Originally posted by aggie2014:

quote:

Originally posted by HRKB:
My question is why are we giving academic credit for extra curricular activities like sports when most of the practice time and games are played outside of school hours?

Would you rather them get no credit for the class during the school day that they take for their sport? Then on top of that, they would have to have additional classes to make up for the lost hours needed to graduate that was coming from athletics. This would just make the athletes fall behind in school even worse with the additional class load, especially in season.

What about band students for example? If they are in marching band not only do they get all thier athletic credits waived but their arts credits as well. (Which I don't agree with entirely)

So HRKB you think that we should penalize any extra curricular activities by adding on classes to thier already heavy load and then not give them anything for the class that they are taking during the day and all afternoon?

Aggie,
My son was taking a fine arts (drumline) and playing baseball. Because his school is block scheduling, and the state required additional math & science classes for all high schoolers, he, like many others, were taking a full load of classes and were still not able to graduate without taking an on-line class in the summer. In other words the kids could not take both fine arts and athletics and accomplish all their state requirements. Many kids had to bite the bullet and choose one over the other. My kid chose to do both which required him to take an on-line class. My point earlier was this: If you play baseball after school then keep it an after school activity the way it was in elementary and middle school. It is the state that is penalizing kids for being involved in extra curricular activities and that is something I am against.

quote:

Originally posted by HRKB:

It is the state that is penalizing kids for being involved in extra curricular activities and that is something I am against.

I agree. I think I misunderstood you earlier if this is what you are thinking. If you are going to take away credit from classes that are extra curricular than you need to take away the class during the school day. However, I think this should apply to all extra curricular activities if we were to change to this. I think band, choir, competitive theatre and all the rest of after school practicing extra curricular things should be solely after school and not be given school credit.

That saying, it is going to make doing two things like HRKB's son did virtually impossible. Coaches and directors are not going to allow students to miss one practice to attend another which will happen a lot more when everything is outside of school hours.

So is there a clear solution...? Doubtful.

Well if your going to go that far then why not cut the length of the school day? About 1/3 of the students in any given school do not want to be there. Have a more vocational approach to it. If they are on a College bound program then go a few more hours but you could still allow students out by 2-2:30 and they could do extra curricular's then. Needs to be at least a JV and Varsity if not 3 teams in my opinion. Kids do need the oppurtunity to improve and be a part of something.

No reason to paddle kids. Fine their parents. I don't think its neccesary to whip other peoples kids.

quote:

Originally posted by Roy Hobbs:
No reason to paddle kids. Fine their parents. I don't think its neccesary to whip other peoples kids.

Yep, although I could probably be talked off the ledge, lay a hand on my kids and my wife would be all over you like a spider monkey.

quote:

Originally posted by doubleday:

quote:

Originally posted by Roy Hobbs:
No reason to paddle kids. Fine their parents. I don't think its neccesary to whip other peoples kids.

Yep, although I could probably be talked off the ledge, lay a hand on my kids and my wife would be all over you like a spider monkey.

Softies that KG was talking about (even though I disagree with most of what he says). The parents didn't make the decision, the kid did. If my kid did something wrong corporal punishment is just fine. What's the old phrase, "Spare the rod, spoil the child." That's what we have too much of.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:
This during the school day baseball class or those classes like it is a bunch of BS.

Wow. Can you elaborate on this? Mainly what positives you see that from wiping out an athletic period that will outweigh the negatives?

quote:

Originally posted by MDteX:

quote:

Originally posted by doubleday:

quote:

Originally posted by Roy Hobbs:
No reason to paddle kids. Fine their parents. I don't think its neccesary to whip other peoples kids.

Yep, although I could probably be talked off the ledge, lay a hand on my kids and my wife would be all over you like a spider monkey.

Softies that KG was talking about (even though I disagree with most of what he says). The parents didn't make the decision, the kid did. If my kid did something wrong corporal punishment is just fine. What's the old phrase, "Spare the rod, spoil the child." That's what we have too much of.

I'm actually in favor of corporal punishment, but administered by the parent, not the school. You think you have issues with the way your school teaches science, english and math...wait until they become the administrators of corporal punishment for your kids.

I like the idea of athletics being after school, the thought of using a class period for academics that was once used for baseball or basketball etc. would be beneficial from an academic preparation viewpoint.

Playing devil's advocate and since this is a thread about budget cuts, wouldn't this direction increase teacher/coach pay/salary?

If a teacher/coach is required two more hours a day after school for athletics how would this effect salary? If there are now more hours available during school for more classes would there be more teachers needed? I am asking b/c I don't know.

We were told that the even though we turn in a signed contract, that we don't necessarily have a job next year. I'm just glad that they were up front with us and told us.

Good luck FD...I think we're all in violent agreement that athletics can play a huge role in the overall personal development of children in this country. I for one am very grateful to those of you who have chosen coaching as a profession. Several coaches (in various sports) have made positive lasting impacts on my kid's lives.

quote:

Originally posted by doubleday:
Several coaches (in various sports) have made positive lasting impacts on my kid's lives.

I respect KG alot, but i have to respectfully disagree with him on a couple of points. First, i would not want to do away with Freshmen teams for 2 reasons, one of which is selfish i admit. First and the selfish one, my son was a freshman this year and due to the school's policy was required to play on the Freshman team ( I think he was talented enough to play on the JV team). My son would have been lost if he was not allowed to play baseball this school year and certainly would have been behind when summer ball starts. Second, I think alot of kids are trying to find their way their freshman year and playing baseball is one way to really feel like you are a part of something and it keeps these kids busy and out of trouble. With respect to bringing paddles back to school, i don't need a coach or a teacher paddling my son. if he screws up, i will take care of him at home,and he will wish he had had the option to be paddled at school.

quote:

Originally posted by Fielder's Choice:
I respect KG alot, but i have to respectfully disagree with him on a couple of points. First, i would not want to do away with Freshmen teams for 2 reasons, one of which is selfish i admit. First and the selfish one, my son was a freshman this year and due to the school's policy was required to play on the Freshman team ( I think he was talented enough to play on the JV team). My son would have been lost if he was not allowed to play baseball this school year and certainly would have been behind when summer ball starts. Second, I think alot of kids are trying to find their way their freshman year and playing baseball is one way to really feel like you are a part of something and it keeps these kids busy and out of trouble. With respect to bringing paddles back to school, i don't need a coach or a teacher paddling my son. if he screws up, i will take care of him at home,and he will wish he
had had the option to be paddled at school.

Didn't say cut the freshman team, just the B,C, and D teams.

If kids knew administration could whip that ***, there would be much less disrespect. Those parents that take care of business at home have nothing to worry about anyway.

A little fear goes a long way even if you never use it.

quote:

A little fear goes a long way even if you never use it.

You don't need to hit a kid to make a little fear go a long ways. Hitting a kid is the weak way out.

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

quote:

A little fear goes a long way even if you never use it.

You don't need to hit a kid to make a little fear go a long ways. Hitting a kid is the weak way out.

Paddle to the butt. Not a forearm shiver.

You know, like the old days when kids were expected to say yes sir/no sir. When you either did your
school work or you failed...no exceptions. When you didn't get a letter jacket because you played on the b team for 3 years and the coach kept you around on varsity for senior year because parents were active in booster club. When there wasn't walk up music. When practice was after school, not 4th period. When prom was in the gym, not Opryland Hotel.

Softies I tell ya. Wake up America!

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

quote:

A little fear goes a long way even if you never use it.

You don't need to hit a kid to make a little fear go a long ways. Hitting a kid is the weak way out.

Paddle to the butt. Not a forearm shiver.

You know, like the old days when kids were expected to say yes sir/no sir. When you either did your
school work or you failed...no exceptions. When you didn't get a letter jacket because you played on the b team for 3 years and the coach kept you around on varsity for senior year because parents were active in booster club. When there wasn't walk up music. When practice was after school, not 4th period. When prom was in the gym, not Opryland Hotel.

Softies I tell ya. Wake up America!

LMAO, very nice KG