Bunting

I have resorted to that tactic when options are limited. The young man is unlikely to put the ball in play so this is the best option for a productive at bat. I have considered giving a hitter the take sign with two strikes for the same reason. These are not desirable choices but realistic ones.

Please don't ever give a kid a take sign with 2 strikes. Would you want your kid to get a take sign with 2 strikes?

We had a LL coach who would give the take sign until (ALL) our kids had two strikes...drove me nuts - yeah we got a lot of walks but also a lot of Ks and it definately hurt our kids.

Why do teams even have take signs? Why take a pitch that might be the most perfect pitch you ever see and can absolutely unload on?

I tell my guys to find fastballs early in the count that are in the zone and attack. If you have discipline to not swing at stuff outside the zone then your walk total will go up as will your average.

Conversely if you don't have discipline then it doesn't matter what pitches you swing at you will not succeed.

As for the bunting we rarely bunt at all. We only bunt if we HAVE to move a runner over and that is usually only after the 5th inning.

If you have been keeping up on my posts about the frustrations I have with my team offense is not one of them. I don't care who you put on the mound - my guys will hit him. Swing the bat, that is why God invented bats.

The "take with two strikes" comment was made in jest. I do believe there is a place for the take sign at the HS or higher levels. Some hitters are very good at hitting the first pitch fastball but studies I recall show advantage pitcher overall.

I almost always bunt with two strikes, assuming the bunt has been on from the beginning of the AB. My reasoning is 1. Our kids can bunt fairly well, so they shouldn't miss on 3 straight bunt attempts, 2. the kid messed up by not getting the first two down so he's trying again darn it! and mainly 3. the chance of bunting a ball fair should be above 50%, the batting average with 2 strikes is generally around .200. It's percentages.

I've had some kids who are less than stellar at the plate, and started using this tactic with them. I was suprised at how often we get a baserunner out of what was probably going to be a K. I always teach that good things happen when you put the ball in play, nothing good comes from a strike out and there's low chance of a DP with a bunted ball unless you face a Yadier Molina type catcher. A side effect is that we've seen some of our windmill kids actually work a little harder on their hitting.

Glad to see a dicussion on small ball. If you don't teach the complete game to your players, you're doing them a disservice- it will come up again at the next level whether you use it or not.
You've got to be able to find ways to exploit your opponent's weaknesses. Bunting with two is a great option to have whether or not they're expecting it. Baseball conventions can often lead to unimaginative coaches.

Using the argument that you may as well bunt because the hitter's batting average with two strikes is low misses a lot of productive results that could happen by not bunting and still without the hitter getting a hit.

Some of which are, a walk, a hbp, a fly that the runner can advance on, an error, a play that results in the hitter getting out but the runner advancing, a passed ball, a wild pitch, catcher's interference and I'm sure I'm missing some.

Many of these result in both runners being safe and which could lead to a big inning that may not happen playing small ball

Bunting or taking after two strikes?...are you kidding me? come on...like I always have said, some coaches in LL only think about win games, and no winning for the kids but for they self. Let the kids swing and strike out, and then teach them how to hit, that is your work as a coach. If you kill the own confidence to any batter, no only a kid, he never will hit a ball.

Obviously the kids on our travel team are at ahigh talent level so we can do a lot things many HS teams cannot

We rarely use the take sign except in certain situations---we will bunt at any time with the guys at the top of the lineup--we have even bunted with our cleanup man--picture a 6-10 270 lb hitter bunting with first and second and no outs---we needed a run, we were down 1-0-- he succeeded and so shook up the pitcher we got back to back wild pitches following his scarifice and won 2-1


AN ADDED THOUGHT:

Do not try to have your kids do what they cannot do !!! Use their strengths

We work on bunting and defending the bunt everyday in practice. We believe in the sac bunt because there are times when it is needed and you need to be able to execute it. I like the drag bunt in our arsenal but we use is rarely but its nice to have it. Moving runners is crucial when you are playing a quality opponent with quality pitching. Maximize your scoring opportunities. The only time I would put on the bunt with two strikes is if I really believe the kid can get it down and we really need to move the runners. It would be rare though with two strikes. The take sign we have it but it is rarely used. Maybe with runners on first and third and we want to steal second and the catcher does not have a strong arm etc. We dont look for walks we look to hit. We take walks when the pitcher refuses to throw us strikes.

Somewhere along the line this went a bit astray, I should have explained a little more. First off, no mention of taking pitches at all. I was talking about using the bunt with two strikes as a surprise tactic in an attempt to bunt for a hit or, at a minimum, move runners. Sorry for the confusion.

yankeelvr-
"Somewhere along the line this went a bit astray"
Happens all the time around here.
If your guy is an excellent handler of the bat, you should be able to bunt at any time with confidence to get the desired result. You see it all the time in the National League.

Two strike bunting should be reserved for NL pitchers IMHO. They need to swing it after any 2 strike count unless they are the aforementioned players. Having said that, bunting is a vital and under taught tool. You must be able to sacrifice to move runners to 3rd in 1 out or no out situations.

quote:

How many believe in using the bunt on the third strike ???

I was thinking of this very thread tonight during our game. Looking for an insurance run with a good baserunner on 3rd and a great bunter at the plate, I called for a squeeze with 2 strikes. Worked perfectly (batter even beat it out for a hit), totally surprised the other team, and our parents were totally questioning my sanity.

I do agree with those who said this is only done when the moon and stars are properly aligned and you've got a good bunter at the plate.

Congrats Style, don't ya just love when a plan comes together. The thing about tactics like this is the risk/reward seems to extend beyond the play itself. Pulling it off really is a big confidence builder while failure can really get the "finger pointing" going (especially in the stands !!!)

quote:

Originally posted by SBK:
Using the argument that you may as well bunt because the hitter's batting average with two strikes is low misses a lot of productive results that could happen by not bunting and still without the hitter getting a hit.

Some of which are, a walk, a hbp, a fly that the runner can advance on, an error, a play that results in the hitter getting out but the runner advancing, a passed ball, a wild pitch, catcher's interference and I'm sure I'm missing some.

Many of these result in both runners being safe and which could lead to a big inning that may not happen playing small ball

All those totaled still don't have a greater chance of happening than a fair bunt. Most of the time we bunt with 2 strikes it's a sac situation where the batter hasn't succeeded yet. Normally it 0-2 or maybe 1-2. If it gets to 2-2, 3-2 the thoughts change. So for the sake of my 2 strike strategy:


Walk - probably not bunting if it's 3and2, or even 2 and 2, so a walk isn't too likely
HBP - pitchers shouldn't hit a kid 0-2. Could happen, but not likely at this level.
Fly ball- at 0-2 he shouldn't get a pitch he can really drive.
Error - could happen
Runner advancing on out - Could happen with a ground ball to the right side. If they will work him away with 2 strikes it's possible.
PB, WP, CI - all possible, but not very likely at this level.

I still say the percentages are our favor with an 0-2 or 1-2 count. Particularly when the other coach assumes it won't happen and backs everybody up. Then we really might get lucky.

If a player couldn't get the bunt down by strike 2, what makes anyone think his percentage is going to be higher on the next pitch?
We never bunt on the third strike, that doesn't mean some players haven't tried on their own.

quote:

Originally posted by Coachric:
If a player couldn't get the bunt down by strike 2, what makes anyone think his percentage is going to be higher on the next pitch?

Because I like to think the kids are good enough they won't miss it twice in a row, but darn sure not 3 times.

It's been successful for me. Different strokes.

quote:

If a player couldn't get the bunt down by strike 2, what makes anyone think his percentage is going to be higher on the next pitch?
We never bunt on the third strike, that doesn't mean some players haven't tried on their own.

Interestingly I was watching the Braves beat the Mets today and Brian McCann laid one down with two strikes to advance the runners.