My bad. If the JV season is over, by all means go up and watch the game from the dugout, listen to the HC and get a feel for the different level of play. It IS a much faster game that takes a bit of a transition period to get used to. And I agree with an earlier poster - I thought the varsity coach TELLS, doesn't ASK a player to come up.
quote:Freshman. His dad told me that he had been offered the opportunity to join the varsity team for the playoffs, but had declined because the varsity team is "advanced rec ball."
The veracity of the tale is sketchy, at best imo.
If you sit on the bench and pout or wonder why your not playing or feel your entitled to play or just put off a negative vibe then you won't learn anything. But if you sit on the bench and ask questions and be a good team mate and do everything enthusiastically then the rest of the team will be willing to help you. Good attitudes usually end with good results and bad attitudes usually end with bad results.
A great JV season and the getting called up does not mean you earned a chance to play on the varstiy team. All you did with the JV season is earn a chance to be ON the varsity team. Once you get there then you got to earn that chance to play.
When I called up kids from JV I didn't expect them to play but sometimes they did. There is a lot of pressure on that kid when they get called up. They achieved their goal of getting that varsity jersey and they don't want to disappoint. They are now interacting with the older guys they probably looked up to and now they don't want to look like a little kid. They probably still don't see themselves as part of the team yet so if they do get in an fail they feel like they let the older guys down. Lot of pressure so a smart coach will try to find spots to play them where they will succeed. Let them see they can do well at the varsity level so it will carry over to next year.
Plus, sitting on the varsity bench allows the coach to observe if the kid is selfish or not. If I pull a kid up and I see him pouting and being selfish because he feels he should play then he and I are going to have a talk about how good players act and how to be a good team mate.
A great JV season and the getting called up does not mean you earned a chance to play on the varstiy team. All you did with the JV season is earn a chance to be ON the varsity team. Once you get there then you got to earn that chance to play.
When I called up kids from JV I didn't expect them to play but sometimes they did. There is a lot of pressure on that kid when they get called up. They achieved their goal of getting that varsity jersey and they don't want to disappoint. They are now interacting with the older guys they probably looked up to and now they don't want to look like a little kid. They probably still don't see themselves as part of the team yet so if they do get in an fail they feel like they let the older guys down. Lot of pressure so a smart coach will try to find spots to play them where they will succeed. Let them see they can do well at the varsity level so it will carry over to next year.
Plus, sitting on the varsity bench allows the coach to observe if the kid is selfish or not. If I pull a kid up and I see him pouting and being selfish because he feels he should play then he and I are going to have a talk about how good players act and how to be a good team mate.
quote:I can even figure out what he said to the coach, "My son is too young...he need more playing time to improve his game...please keep him in JV this year...let him work hard to earn his way up...
and to become a STARTER next year to help your varsity team...let my freshman son jumping out front of the upperclassman will make you and me look bad...etc" that will make the coach love this Dad for sure. There will be no red flag what's so ever. Trust me, I even doubt the "advanced rec ball"
comments is from the Head Coach, the Dad maybe use it as his own words.
The OP don't indicate the dad had declined the callup but rather the son.
The dad has no business in that conversation between the coach and player and if he is, he's doing his kid no favor by getting involved like that.
Where the dad could get involved is by having to have a sitdown with his kid (assuming the kid told his dad that)and explain to him that dissing the varsity team won't help his cause. If the dad is filling the kid's head with this stuff and buying into it, then it's probably a lost cause anyway.
OK, I don't believe the Dad's original comment.
But...for most situations, being called up to varsity playoffs extends a player's season.
There are a couple of reasons why a player might want to not extend his HS season. One is to allow the player to take part in the practices for the next season's sport. An obvious example (which recently occurred at my son's school)-- sophomore basketball player is also a golfer. He was called up to varsity at the end of basketball season and missed the the initial practices/matches of the varsity golf team. Of course, he took part in the BB playoffs, but there was a downside for golf. Similarly, a kid who plays both baseball and football might prefer spring football practice to getting experience sitting in a varsity dugout.
Locally in California, a high school baseball player can't practice/play with an outside team during the season. If his travel team is already practicing, he may want to join that team. If the freshman player is baseball age 14, he may see the travel team as a better use of his time, because 14U tournaments run throughout the spring.
Having said all that, I'm hard pressed to believe that any player would turn down the opportunity to be part of a play-off run. At the two high schools I have sons at, turning it down isn't even allowed. Once you start a sport, you are supposed to see it through to the end of the season.
But...for most situations, being called up to varsity playoffs extends a player's season.
There are a couple of reasons why a player might want to not extend his HS season. One is to allow the player to take part in the practices for the next season's sport. An obvious example (which recently occurred at my son's school)-- sophomore basketball player is also a golfer. He was called up to varsity at the end of basketball season and missed the the initial practices/matches of the varsity golf team. Of course, he took part in the BB playoffs, but there was a downside for golf. Similarly, a kid who plays both baseball and football might prefer spring football practice to getting experience sitting in a varsity dugout.
Locally in California, a high school baseball player can't practice/play with an outside team during the season. If his travel team is already practicing, he may want to join that team. If the freshman player is baseball age 14, he may see the travel team as a better use of his time, because 14U tournaments run throughout the spring.
Having said all that, I'm hard pressed to believe that any player would turn down the opportunity to be part of a play-off run. At the two high schools I have sons at, turning it down isn't even allowed. Once you start a sport, you are supposed to see it through to the end of the season.
quote:coach2709, I wish all the parents think the way like coaches think. Most of the parents would care less about the Vasity Jersey if their sons are truly good. Only those parents whose son is not so good or average player would whining about playing time or bragging about a Varsity Jersey.
kbat, that is a pretty ignorant statement. My son was a starting varsity pitcher as a freshman. He did not have to dress for varsity when he wasn't pitching (he played SS on JV). I told him he needed to show appreciation to the coach for allowing him the opportunity to play varsity. I also told him he needed to be there to support his teammates. When he wasn't playing JV, he dressed for the varsity game.
It has nothing to do with bragging or whining. It has to do with TEAM. In my opinion, an underclassman should appreciate any opportunity to do anything with the varsity team. Playing on that team is the ultimate goal in HS.
3Finger - Unless something has changed recently, you can practice with the other team in our area (yours and mine)...just cannot play in a game with that team.
No doubt you'll show me the new rule if it exists!
See you tonight across the field.
No doubt you'll show me the new rule if it exists!
See you tonight across the field.
justbaseball,
Yeah, there's only a rule against playing. But as a practical matter, if the teams can't play, they tend to not practice.
It's our Senior Game. Last year, seniors generally started that game, even if they didn't ordinarily play much. But the opponent wasn't a strong team. Wonder what the coaches will do this year?
Yeah, there's only a rule against playing. But as a practical matter, if the teams can't play, they tend to not practice.
It's our Senior Game. Last year, seniors generally started that game, even if they didn't ordinarily play much. But the opponent wasn't a strong team. Wonder what the coaches will do this year?
quote:Originally posted by Hawk19:quote:but had declined because the varsity team is "advanced rec ball."
Are there legitimate reasons to decline the call-up?
It sounds to me like they had a 'better offer' to play on a different team since the 'advanced rec ball' of the varsity team would still have to be a step up from the JV at the same school..
Without a 'better offer' I can't think of any reason to decline the call up.
Or maybe he was worried that 'advance rec ball' was too much and wanted to stay with 'regular rec ball'...
In our district there are several schools that you can attend. each school has it's strengths and weaknesses with respect to BB. If a sophmore from the J.V team were to play in a Varsity game, He would be inelegbile at another school and could not transfer and play BB within the district for his junior and senior year.
quote:Most of the parents would care less about the Vasity Jersey if their sons are truly good.
huh??? Shoot, I (a parent)see the varsity jersey as a piece of gold he earned through the many years of hard work, dedication, focus, patience, practice, participation, good grade maintenance, good attitude, willingness to do what he was told and staying out of trouble. The kid is pretty proud of his varsity jersey too. It is special because of all the really, really good area players who did not get to wear it.
JBB,
With our high school’s league, players were not permitted to trying out or practice with outside teams, unless it was the USA sponsored team such as a USA National team.
They did not restrict players from having outside lessons (but some coaches did not like it), but players would also attend “clinics” that were at times coordinated by some outside teams.
Semantics is the subtle difference, but very critical, between practices and clinics
.
With our high school’s league, players were not permitted to trying out or practice with outside teams, unless it was the USA sponsored team such as a USA National team.
They did not restrict players from having outside lessons (but some coaches did not like it), but players would also attend “clinics” that were at times coordinated by some outside teams.
Semantics is the subtle difference, but very critical, between practices and clinics
.
Wow, you seem pretty jaded kbat. Just glad I'm not playing in your program if it's as bad as you seem to project.
On our team, we had 2 soph's and one jr. start on varsity. Another freshman and jr. got significant play time. 3 starting pitchers were a freshman and two sophs.
You can't make a blanket statement that all programs are run by politics.
On our team, we had 2 soph's and one jr. start on varsity. Another freshman and jr. got significant play time. 3 starting pitchers were a freshman and two sophs.
You can't make a blanket statement that all programs are run by politics.
Here is a scenerio...not logical or rational or sensible...but plausable if you know HS ball and some of the more interesting parents..
Freshman Father is certain that his son is a stud and should start on varsity as a freshman...Talks the kid up, boast and brags...instead his son gets assigned to JV. Father is simply crushed AND VERY angry, and carries that venom with him all year. Sits in the stands at Varsity games and grinds on about all the mistakes the players make and how his kid should be starting. Meanwhile his Son has a fine year at JV, gets the call up. Dad now sees the perfect opportunity to vent his bitterness, to stick it back to them, those who coach and play "advanced rec ball."...those fools who did not see his son's obvious talent...and he declines his son. Old man takes his ball and goes home. Walks away happily certain that he has made his point (and continues to make it any anyone one the practice field that will listen.)
In the end wins the battle....but loses the war. Father doesn't get it and never will.
Next year, son is back on JV. Ultimately he goes to 3 high schools, strangley enough it turns out that every one of those programs plays "advanced rec ball."...son goes to low level JC, quits.
44
.
Freshman Father is certain that his son is a stud and should start on varsity as a freshman...Talks the kid up, boast and brags...instead his son gets assigned to JV. Father is simply crushed AND VERY angry, and carries that venom with him all year. Sits in the stands at Varsity games and grinds on about all the mistakes the players make and how his kid should be starting. Meanwhile his Son has a fine year at JV, gets the call up. Dad now sees the perfect opportunity to vent his bitterness, to stick it back to them, those who coach and play "advanced rec ball."...those fools who did not see his son's obvious talent...and he declines his son. Old man takes his ball and goes home. Walks away happily certain that he has made his point (and continues to make it any anyone one the practice field that will listen.)
In the end wins the battle....but loses the war. Father doesn't get it and never will.
Next year, son is back on JV. Ultimately he goes to 3 high schools, strangley enough it turns out that every one of those programs plays "advanced rec ball."...son goes to low level JC, quits.
44.
quote:Originally posted by observer44:
Here is a scenerio...not logical or rational or sensible...but plausable if you know HS ball and parents..
Freshman Father is certain that his son is a stud and should start on varsity as a freshman...Talks the kid up, boast and brags...instead his son gets assigned to JV. Father is simply crushed AND VERY angry, and carries that venom with him all year. Sits in the stands at Varsity games and grinds on about all the mistakes the players make and how his kid should be starting. Meanwhile his Son has a fine year at JV, gets the call up. Dad now sees the perfect opportunity to vent his bitterness, to stick it back to them, those who coach and play "advanced rec ball."...those fools who did not see his son's obvious talent...and he declines his son. Old man takes his ball and goes home. Walks away happily certain that he has made his point (and continues to make it any anyone one the practice field that will listen.)
In the end wins the battle....but loses the war. Father doesn't get it and never will.
Next year, son is back on JV. Ultimately he goes to 3 high schools, strangley enough it turns out that every one of those programs plays "advanced rec ball."...son goes to low level JC, quits.
.
Oustanding post. I would say that sounds way more than plausible.
Is there no grace or class in our society anymore?
This all leads back to why I thought this dad's statement was bizarre. There are a million threads about HS politics, and about how poster's sons should be playing varsity, are better than the varsity players, it's all politics, whatever. Other parents are very excited and proud in the HS reporting thread when their sons get called up, parents are frustrated that their player got called up then didn't play. And the common theme in when to showcase is when the young man makes a contribution at the varsity level. It's all about getting to the varsity level. So here is a dad who seems to have said thanks but no thanks (don't know if the son was able to provide input - just have the random statement about the varsity team "advanced rec ball"), and giving the impression that the varsity team wasn't good enough. Go figure.
Just saw OS44's post. Makes perfect sense.
Just saw OS44's post. Makes perfect sense.
I started a thread on this last week. My son's varsity coach called up a JV infielder, pitcher and hitter/DH due to injuries for the last five games of the season. They were all told they were bench players. The infielder's mother bitched the entire game to the rest of us until many of us relocated. Her son would be the first off the bench if an infielder was pinch hit for, pinch run for, or injured. She also told us we weren't as fun as the JV parents. She doesn't have to worry any more. Mid term grades came out. Her son is ineligible for either team now.quote:I have known players to get "called up" to varsity----to sit on the bench. Never get in a game, never get meaningful practice-----but get called up, non-the-less. I sure don't understand that.
The scary thing is this kid will likely make varsity as a utility player next year. We can't wait to listen for a season to what we heard for one game.
quote:Originally posted by kbat2012:
coach2709, I wish all the parents think the way like coaches think. Most of the parents would care less about the Vasity Jersey if their sons are truly good. Only those parents whose son is not so good or average player would whining about playing time or bragging about a Varsity Jersey. If you look from the "sideline", it looks really funny that how those parents behave in order to make their son to JV/V. Sometimes I really want to tell them in the face, "Please quit whining, your son got nothing but couple of years more lifespan showed on his birth certificate". But I am not that kind of a guy.
kbat in my years coaching baseball I have seen almost everything from parents. There have been years where parents of my studs were trying to get me fired, years where average players parents were trying to get me fired and so on. What happens is that ignorance, selfishness and rose colored glasses know no talent level. There are some people who just don't get it and won't listen to those who do get it.
I know you have posted several times criticizing all coaches based on what happens at your school and while it does happen at other places I don't think it's the norm. I can only speak from my experience but I don't play politics but I know some parents have said that I do because their son got cheated out of playing time. I truly believe that I put the best 9 out there if they earn it. Now that means they bust their butt in practice, be a good team mate and take care of business in the classroom. If a very talented kid doesn't do those things then they don't play. Based on that maybe I'm not putting my most talented 9 out there but the 9 out there earned what that spot.
When a young kid (soph or frosh) tries out and makes the team they will probably be on JV. Through their hard work, good attitude and talent DURING TRYOUTS they earn that spot on JV. The very next day at practice they now have to earn that starting position for JV games. Through that season their performance, attitude, work ethic and attitude allows them to EARN a spot on the varsity roster. Once they reach this they still have to EARN varsity playing time.
Just because you get pulled up doesn't mean you are already better than the guys who have been on the varsity team all year. That JV guy has just become one of those varsity bench players and now have to earn the playing time just like they do.
I would change "means" to "thinks". "Thoughtful" should be changed to "arrogant".quote:The Dad's comments of "advanced rec ball" means his son is better than all of those starters, his son should start Varsity instead of being called up and sit on the bench or be a untility "helper". The Dad is very thoughtful, he delined smartly and would wait for next year until those "Rec players" graduate.
The Dad's comments of "advanced rec ball" thinks his son is better than all of those starters, his son should start Varsity instead of being called up and sit on the bench or be a untility "helper". The Dad is very arrogant, he delined smartly and would wait for next year until those "Rec players" graduate.
I'll guess the kid is a younger age travel player and the dad thinks it means he should start on varsity. With two kids I've seen this one before.
2709,
Let's assume you are doing exactly what you are saying, otherwise this would become an attack on you and that isn't my intent.
Let's also realize that there are coaches who use exactly what you've said as a rationale for playing their favorites instead of playing the players (far more than 9) who give the team the best chance of winning the most games this year while setting up another winning season the next year. My guess is that many of those coaches haven't the slightest idea they're playing favorites.
As far as the original post it makes no sense unless you assume it is something on the lines of the example O44 gave.
Let's assume you are doing exactly what you are saying, otherwise this would become an attack on you and that isn't my intent.
Let's also realize that there are coaches who use exactly what you've said as a rationale for playing their favorites instead of playing the players (far more than 9) who give the team the best chance of winning the most games this year while setting up another winning season the next year. My guess is that many of those coaches haven't the slightest idea they're playing favorites.
As far as the original post it makes no sense unless you assume it is something on the lines of the example O44 gave.
Ah! The battle cry of the JV parent and player. A JV parent cried politics on our varsity since the first soph in six years and the first freshman ever, start. Her reasoning was the soph's dad was on the LL board and coaches travel. The frosh's dad employs the varsity coach at his baseball academy.quote:Way too much politics in high school baseball.
These players are third and fourth on the team in rbi's. They're great fielders. They play on elite travel teams. The crier didn't realize she was talking to the freshman's dad. The dad asked if she had ever seen him play. The answer was, no.