Can a player be too polished?

Projectabibility is a big deal. I dont know if a player can be too polished, but a player can be raw with tremendous upside.Take a kid who runs a 60 yard dash at around a 6.2-6.4 tremedous arm, athleticism, incredible bat speed,can really run the bases and is a great outfielder, but isnt polished at the plate yet, maybe he is striking out a lot, doesnt really have a plan.Has all the tools but this.If he learns and puts it together he is a 5 tool player.yes he will get opportunity.

As the saying goes: speed never has a slump.

Interesting question Doughnutman.

I think it is impossible for a player to be too polished. However, that doesn't mean the most polished player is the better prospect.

We see thousands of young players every year and those that you would consider very polished with the necessary tools are rare.

I think polish can be developed easier than developing the necessary tools.

This makes for some great discussion---just because a player "appears" polished does not mean he has reached his peak and cannot improve---look at Derek Jeter--before this seaosn becag they were saying he was past his peak and yet this year was one of his best if not in many ways his best---there is always room to improve if the player wants to work at it

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I think polish can be developed easier than developing the necessary tools.

PG ... Do you believe some kids are better at showcasing than actually playing the game?

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PG ... Do you believe some kids are better at showcasing than actually playing the game?

Yes and there are some that are much better at playing the game than they are at showcasing. But the very best are usually good at both!

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Originally posted by fanofgame:
Projectabibility is a big deal. I dont know if a player can be too polished, but a player can be raw with tremendous upside.Take a kid who runs a 60 yard dash at around a 6.2-6.4 tremedous arm, athleticism, incredible bat speed,can really run the bases and is a great outfielder, but isnt polished at the plate yet, maybe he is striking out a lot, doesnt really have a plan.Has all the tools but this.If he learns and puts it together he is a 5 tool player.yes he will get opportunity.

I'm conservative. If this player didn't have some significant previous success at the plate, I'd assume that his approach at the plate was hard-wired, and I wouldn't expect his hitting drawbacks to be fixable. Plate approach is to a great degree hard-wired, IMO.

I'd like to see a polished plate approach from the get-go.

freddy,

You bring up a very interesting point. Think I understand where you're coming from and can certainly respect that opinion.

Let me ask you this... I'm sure you have seen it.

There are some who can just flat out hit, yet they could not be called a polished hitter in any way. They just have "natural" hitting ability.

How does this type fit into your thinking?

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Originally posted by PGStaff:
freddy,

You bring up a very interesting point. Think I understand where you're coming from and can certainly respect that opinion.

Let me ask you this... I'm sure you have seen it.

There are some who can just flat out hit, yet they could not be called a polished hitter in any way. They just have "natural" hitting ability.

How does this type fit into your thinking?

I'm taking that kind of hitter. I should have said "effective" plate approach instead of "polished." Anybody who can flat out hit has, by definition, an effective plate approach (with regard to selectivity, etc.) Continuing my logic, Vlad G. has an effective plate approach. Because it works for him. But Vlad's p.a. would be ineffective for most.

Unless he had some stats proving he could hit well againsr pitchers who had decent command, I probably would have passed on selecting Vlad G. high in the draft because of his unconventional plate approach.

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There are some who can just flat out hit, yet they could not be called a polished hitter in any way. They just have "natural" hitting ability.

How does this type fit into your thinking?

Well I am going to make a stab at that.I have seen first hand kids who have raw huge upside talent and they are raved about for days on end, and they CANT hit, they strike out a lot and struggle, and they get a loooong rope to disproove that they cant play.Seen it many , mnay times.And the consistent hitter who has raw hitting ability get overlooked without the hype.
I am not you PG,I am just a mom, but I have seen it and it does happen and often.
You see the write ups: so and so has raw athletic ability, should be off the charts if his hitting catches up to his upside.Huge projectability etc etc.He has speed, plus arm strenght, huge upside etc, etc, then you watch him hit and he hasnt a clue at the plate.

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I'm taking that kind of hitter. I should have said "effective" plate approach instead of "polished." Anybody who can flat out hit has, by definition, an effective plate approach (with regard to selectivity

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Originally posted by fanofgame:
...Take a kid who runs a 60 yard dash at around a 6.2-6.4 tremedous arm, athleticism, incredible bat speed,can really run the bases and is a great outfielder, but isnt polished at the plate yet, maybe he is striking out a lot, doesnt really have a plan...

Not to get off topic but I ask this question w all seriousness; are there really players out there running the 60 in 6.2???

I was under the impression 6.5 was blazing speed?

Yes there are those who run a 6.2

My son ran a 6.4 in college and was not the fastest in their outfield

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PG,

I saw a player this summer that comes close to what you just described. Have you seen much of Cito Culver?

Jesse,

Yes, he has been to about 20 PG Showcases and Tournaments. He attended the PG National last June.

Here he is... Scroll down the page...
Chris "Cito" Culver

If you're a subscriber, and want to see many more events and reports... there's even more info here
Chris "Cito" Culver

fsmjunior,

6.2 is very rare, but we've seen a few kids do that over the years. To give some perspective... Carl Crawford ran a 6.3 at one of our events while he was in high school. Justin Upton ran a 6.2 something. Florida Wide Receiver Riley Cooper ran a 6.29 at the PG National Showcase in 2005. Stanford running back Toby Gerhart ran for something like 250 yards against Oregon, he ran a 6.35 at the same PG National Showcase Cooper was at in 2005. We have actually had two kids run below 6.2.

You are correct, 6.5 IS very fast!

Freshmen at my sons college this year.Ran a 6.2 I believe at a perfect game showcase.I think I saw it on PG 's site.Drafted out of HS.

I'm gonna take a stab at this. What is too polished? I would think a player who has all the tools: speed, agility, hitting, knowledge & attitude would be a coach's dream. That to me, is "too" polished. I have yet to hear of that athlete turned away in lieu of a kid that needs work.

I think a more probing question is, "if a player has most the tools (not all) are they desirable to recruit?" What is a deal breaker? What can seal it?

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What is too polished?

This is a great question.

I think "polish" is in the eye of a beholder. We have locally a SS who ranked a 10 at PG, throws 91 across the infield, and is the smoothest SS I have ever seen (aside from Rafael Furcal and 2B ). Parents who watch this young man during a HS game see someone making everything look easy - so it must be, right? What's the big deal?

One of those guys to whom PGStaff referred as running under a 6.2 is 2B's speed coach this fall/winter. He was astounding to watch as a HS baserunner. He might be the greatest baserunner and the hardest worker (and the greatest example) we've ever seen, although a few uninformed spectators though he was overrated- he did it all seemingly so easily. They were wrong. Still, he takes nothing for granted.

Polish...

The tool or tools are there, but we are now speaking of perfection, right? Isn't that what we mean when we use the word Polish?

I think of it mostly in reference to fielding and defense. Footwork, staying low, using your momentum to put more "juice" on your throw. Quick hands, smooth transfers. No wasted movement, every move has a purpose. Calm and cool, making plays look routine, especially the routine.

How can a player possibly be too polished, too close to perfection?

Here's a kid who was a senior 2b at my son's high school when my son was a freshman. He was not a polished player, but had some tools. He ran a 6.32 at an MLB tryout. It's the kid returning the opening kickoff for a td(Travis Cobb).
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4633049

Being at two of the National Showcases seeing the speed was tremendous. Watching Shiflett run the 6.11 was something amazing. I had the good fortune of have 6.5, 6.5 and 6.6 in the outfield a couple years ago. They all were drafted by the 2nd round.