Can a senior sign a LOI for the year after he graduates?

The next signing period for NLI is in a few weeks and that is for 2011 HS grads (or JUCO), many 2012 grads are commiting now, they will sign in the early signing period this coming november, as will JUCO players for the fall of 2012.

If they really liked your son as a 2011 and no money for scholarship, they could have asked if he wanted to try as a walk on, or perhaps go to a JUCO for a year and then they might consider, there are programs that do that if they like a player but do not feel he is ready for their program.

Their interest, IMO, was soley that they thought that your son was younger than he is.

I know you don't want to hear it, but that is why JUCO is a good option, players get to mature physically and get a chance to work on improving their skills, so that those dream schools who weren't interested might be someday in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by Vector:
One of my sons D1 "dream schools" sent him a couple of emails showing interest.
They said things like "WOW what can I say, I loved the way you compete in the rain! That type of toughness is what we expect out of our pitching staff! I want to see you pitch in person".

Everything was going well, then the coach seemed puzzled about his graduation year and asked if he was a junior or a senior. Once they found out he is in the 2011 class, they abruptly emailed and said their 2011 class is already full and wished him good luck.
Needless to say it was a huge letdown since few of the colleges that have shown interest in him are places/programs he would want to go to. With that in mind, my question is as follows.

If this school were interested in him if he was a 2012 grad, could he get a commitment from them for 2012 like they would give a junior, and just play JC ball next year? Another words, sign a LOI for 2012 even though he is a senior that will graduate this summer?
My wife would insist on something solid, not just a promise or a maybe, but I am not even sure that type of arraignment is possible? However since this is the first time she has even considered the possibility of him going JC for a year, I want to investigate whether this is something others have done successfully with colleges in the past.

Your from Florida as well. Your son should understand that the JC level in Florida is outstanding and that's his best option right now besides going out of state. There's a reason why FL JC's get recruited so heavily especially by the D1's here and also D2's. As a JUCO player your a more proven player and as I like to say, "you've built up your credit". JC players have been away from home, shown college stats and if they can be successfull in college baseall and can also prove if they can stay out of trouble. For a college coach a good JC player in Florida is a better investment. As a high school player you have never experienced any of the factors stated above and in their minds, it's a more risky investment. I converse just about every week with the schools im sure he wants to go to and I am very familiar with the way they recruit. The truth is generally if your going to go to one of the larger D1 schools in Florida your going to early commit as a Junior or Soph. or transfer from a JC in Florida. Hope this helps and PM me if you have any more questions.

What is interesting about your post is that you are not the only one to say coming out of a JC can be more advantageous than being recruited out of HS. My thinking just a few months back was a kid going to a well respected private school making great grades would be more appealing to an academic college program than a JC player. That thinking started a discussion which led to a majority expressing your point of view. However it also spawned a discussion about how some universities do not take JC's.
Ironically enough I just checked the roster of this university, and sure enough it does not look like they have a single JC player on their roster. So me thinking it might be a viable option if an LOI could be signed for 2012 by a 2011 after a year of JC is not very likely.

FYI - Some who are familiar with my situation know that my wife is dead set against a JC, so it is a non starter no matter how good a fit it might be for my son. I was actually surprised she even brought it up as it related to this colleges interest, but it is one of the dream schools, so that might be the reason for it.

I am not 100% sure, but it seems all bets are off once a player steps on a JC campus. In my limited experiene in California, I did't know of a player that had any type of commitment you suggest. The few that had D1 interest we more of the "we'll see how you do" type of "commitment".

The great divide in this debate occurs because some folks go to college to get an education and enjoy playing ball. Other folks go to college to keep playing ball and get an education.

If the plan is to get an education and a degree from a prestigious university than you may be limiting your baseball opportunities.

If your goal is to be a professional baseball player, especially as a position player, then it makes sense in some situations to go the JUCO route so that you get your at bats and time in the field.

I understand that in many parts of the country JUCO is frowned upon or is not considered to be "that" competitive. However, in Florida that is not the case.

An additional option for this player, if money is no object, would be to complete an additional year at the IMG Academy in Bradenton and delay his entrance into college by a year.

quote:

Originally posted by CollegeParentNoMore:
I am not 100% sure, but it seems all bets are off once a player steps on a JC campus. In my limited experiene in California, I did't know of a player that had any type of commitment you suggest. The few that had D1 interest we more of the "we'll see how you do" type of "commitment".

I had never heard of something like it, but if they make commitments to juniors a year in advance, I did not see why they could not do the same for a senior if that years class was already spoken for.
I guess that unless your son is a blue chipper where everyone is trying to get him first(cards held by player), all the cards are held by the coach if a kid is going to graduate without a commitment. So I guess it would not make sense for a program to make a commitment to a kid they could watch to see how he did in a JC before making an offer.
Then again they take chances on many a junior without knowing how they will pan out the following year.

quote:

Originally posted by floridafan:
The great divide in this debate occurs because some folks go to college to get an education and enjoy playing ball. Other folks go to college to keep playing ball and get an education.

If the plan is to get an education and a degree from a prestigious university than you may be limiting your baseball opportunities.

If your goal is to be a professional baseball player, especially as a position player, then it makes sense in some situations to go the JUCO route so that you get your at bats and time in the field.

I understand that in many parts of the country JUCO is frowned upon or is not considered to be "that" competitive. However, in Florida that is not the case.

An additional option for this player, if money is no object, would be to complete an additional year at the IMG Academy in Bradenton and delay his entrance into college by a year.

You hit the nail on the head regarding looking for an academic college first, then baseball second. Having nothing to do with JC's, there are colleges that have very successful baseball programs, but their academic reputation is lacking. So even if a college like that wanted him to play for them, as a family we would probably not approve.
We are trying to find the best fit, with most of the dream schools being of a higher academic standard. Heck if baseball could get him into a school he does not have the grades for, that would be ideal from a parental standpoint. Then again who knows how well he would flourish is such an environment. His grades are very good, but not Ivy league.
I tell my son regularly that finding the balance seems to be the toughest part. Of course that is not even taking into account his D1 aspirations.

Funny enough there is one very successful Florida JC that has followed my son for years at a particular camp he always went to. They even recently expressed interest in him at the tourney of state champions a few weeks back. My son is always polite, and never says that he is not allowed to go the JC route, so that option is still available. I have never mentioned this here before because I've tried to steer conversations about our son away from JC's, since his mother is so opposed. However I have mentioned before that as much as I want to help my son find the right program, it is not worth breaking up my marriage to do so. That is why I was stunned when she was brainstorming and mentioned a JC, trying to figure out how we could still keep this dream school interested.
She is constantly worrying about how he is not yet enrolled anywhere, so it raises the family stress level. I've told her more knowledgeable people than us have said opportunities will be forthcoming and not to panic. Yet after every game he pitches and does well in, she thinks the phone will be ringing with an offer. Every time I say it could take until the summer, she has a fit. That is why my son and I would love to get this over sooner than later.

Heck I just went over to Costco to buy a family size bottle of Jack Daniels.

I am not sure but my opinion is that when things are going slow in the recruiting process and families become too selective, nothing is going to happen that will ever make them happy.

I don't blame your wife for being upset, if academics is a high priority, your son should have applied months ago to college, regardless of baseball. College baseball is just another option to continue playing after HS and help with college costs whether it be academic or through baseball scholarship.

There are many people here whose sons did give up a better academic program to play better baseball, as there are many people here whose sons gave up better baseball programs to get a better academic education.

If your son is a good student his bright futures would have taken care of his tuition or part of it, so at this point in the year, he should have applied to a public university in FL that he would have been accepted to.

Vector,
By rule, NLIs are only effective and in force for the next academic year. The only NLI that your son can sign before next November would be for 2011-2012. Anyway, I hope you have understood that even if it were legal, a NLI wouldn't be offered in this situation.

quote:

She is constantly worrying about how he is not yet enrolled anywhere, so it raises the family stress level. I've told her more knowledgeable people than us have said opportunities will be forthcoming and not to panic.

What? Who wrote "will be forthcoming?" In my opinion, based on things you've written over the last 6 months or so, there is a small chance that an opportunity will arise. By "opportunity" I mean, at the least, a guaranteed roster spot at a D1 school with a solid academic reputation. It seems that is what it would take to satisfy the entire family.

Late last summer, your son was under-exposed. But he's had plenty of exposure by now, and the lack of offers should tell you that, as a group, college coaches don't evaluate his talent as high enough to justify an invitation to walk on.

I wouldn't write this stuff, but "not enrolled" scares me. It seems to me that hoping a baseball opportunity will arise, and not enrolling in a 4 year school now, will most likely result in his attendence at a JC. Sure, sometimes a player gets admission to a 4 year school late in the year, but it is rare. It is even rarer that the school is a good overall "fit".

3FG,

My son has been offered a couple "walk on" opportunities, but that is not something we are comfortable with. Correct me if I am wrong, but even a "preferred walk on" does not guarantee a roster spot, much less financial assistance. So while one of his dream schools did sit down with him and say they thought he had a "good chance to make the roster as a walk on", that and 50 cents will buy a cup of coffee. That school cost $50k a year, so it is out of the running regardless of how good it is without financial help.

As to not being enrolled, maybe I should be more specific. He has been accepted in a couple of schools since we went through the obligatory process. His grades are very good, so that was not in question. However he will not attend a college that he is not guaranteed a roster spot, so it is a moot point. We have always told him studies/grades comes first, and he has always held up his end, but he is good enough to play at certain programs at various levels. Now the trick is trying to match everything up. We do not have the luxury of picking among a handful of dream schools, or even the next 5 on the list. That is why we were so excited when one of them showed so much interest until they found out he was a 2011, not a 2012.

As far as it being rare for kids to get in late, that is the opposite of what we have been told by some knowledgeable people. We've been told that spots always open up due to kids becoming academically ineligible, the draft, financial/personal reasons for leaving, etc. Granted I am not sure how long to wait before those type of opportunities become known.
For lack of a better way to put it, a couple of schools have told us they want him, but need to wait to see what will open up. Depending on what happens, money may or may not be available. Of course depending on the school and cost of tuition, that could be a huge factor.
So unlike 6 months ago, we do have some options, just not anything rock solid, or it is not from schools he is likely to attend. I am not looking for sympathy, just trying to figure this all out. Thanks for clearing up the LOI question I was hoping was possible. I think it is time to scratch that school off the list.

Vector,
Here's what I mean by rare: Each year upwards of 3000 D1 freshmen baseball players will be at fall practice, nearly all of them well-known to the coaches before the player arrived on campus.

How many of the 3000 waited until after midway through their senior baseball season before being guaranteed a roster spot? My guess is less than 20%, and well less than that for mid-level and higher D1s.

Of that 20%, how many are players who wanted to play high level D1, but were only getting scholarship offers at mid-level or lower level D1s, and so had already accepted a guaranteed position at a JC, preserving their transfer options? I think most of the late offers made to seniors due to draft, grades, injury, etc. go to players who had D1 scholarship offers, just not at the level of play or perhaps the scholarship amount that they aspired to. Actually I think that many offers of this sort go to players who are finishing up their first year at a JC. When a college loses a scholarship player, they don't decide to replace him with their 36th choice; instead they try to entice a player who is almost as good.

I believe that players who haven't been offered even a non-scholarship guaranteed roster spot midway through their senior season are unlikely to receive such an offer from a D1. On the other hand, I think D3 recruiting is still in full swing. (D2 recruiting and rosters, at least here in CA, tend to be more like JCs--lots of bouncebacks from D1 schools.)

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
I am not sure but my opinion is that when things are going slow in the recruiting process and families become too selective, nothing is going to happen that will ever make them happy.

I don't blame your wife for being upset, if academics is a high priority, your son should have applied months ago to college, regardless of baseball. College baseball is just another option to continue playing after HS and help with college costs whether it be academic or through baseball scholarship.

There are many people here whose sons did give up a better academic program to play better baseball, as there are many people here whose sons gave up better baseball programs to get a better academic education.

If your son is a good student his bright futures would have taken care of his tuition or part of it, so at this point in the year, he should have applied to a public university in FL that he would have been accepted to.

Vector it sounds like you want the best of all worlds, like most of us. But not many players are in that position. I would decide what is more important to your son and family (baseball or academics) and choose a school based on that decision. If it's academics, choose the school and take your chances with baseball. If a $50K school is out of the question a baseball scholly, most likely, won't make it much more affordable.

I think that everyone wants the best of both worlds.
It just doesn't really work that way, unfortunetly. I agree with filsfan, if a D1 school's tuition is 50K, 25% isn't going to make a difference in teh long run anyway.

I am going to assume that some of these dream schools are more of the high powered D1 and unless your son or anyone elses is made up of some really tough stuff, thick skinned, it's not going to work for most.
It does appear that mom and dad are at such odds as to what he is or is not allowed to do, no decision except those better academic baseball programs is going to satisfy the family. Your son should be at the point that he takes some responsibility in this process and stop mom and dad from arguing what will be best for their son. I truely feel badly for your son, I'll bet he is a really nice kid caught in the crossfire, all he wants to do is go play baseball so go let him do that, everything else will fall into place, you don't even know how he would do academically, so what at this point does it matter if it is one of those less academic programs or not, perhaps going off to play baseball, away from mom and dad will help him to grow up and make some of his own decisions.

Couple of people I know who used to post here, their players took those last minute D1 offers that came in summer (they come so fast you don't have a chance to even think serioulsy abut it) and not there anymore. What they should have done was go to a place that was a better fit both in the program and academically. That was back in the years when you could transfer D1 to D1 though. Nowadays, lots and lots of those kids are winding up going to JUCO to find their way back to a 4 year program, so waiting until the last minute for a secure JUCO opportunity is becomin harder and harder. I'd like to know what knowledgeable people gave advice that many HS players do get offers late summer, or was it something you read here? Can someone here tell me about one HS grad who got a late offer to one of the D1 programs you wish your son to attend had it work out for them? I do not know of one situation.

BTW, in FL, FSU is one of those schools that suggest that players go to JUCO first, then they sign them, take a look at their roster, so some programs do discuss this with players. Lots are walk ons too. Florida and UM do not as they pretty much get their high draft HS players to attend, and those schools (as most of the larger D1 programs) rarely have players get so low in GPA they become ineligible. So if you are waiting for that to happen it doesn't happen much (being ineligible at the better D1 programs). They work REAL hard at keeping their players eligible.
They take their players out of HS and develop them into the player they want. Tallahassee CC is the feeder into FSU.

I do have to agree with you on one point, it is time to scratch that school off the list and others that most likely will be unattainable, and move forward, perhaps a new attitude and plan that it is what it is, if your son wants to play college ball he most likely will have to attend where his ABILITY and your pocketbook will allow.

Vector - you have started some of the most perplexing threads of all time and they all seem to sprial down into the same circles. Even in this thread, you've gotten outstanding advice but it never seems quite good enough.

Lets talk metaphorically for a moment...

You seem like a guy who might be able to get a date with someone like Ellen DeGeneres or Rosie O'Donnell (assuming they were on the market for guys) yet you complain that Cindy Crawford is not ringing your phone. If on the remote chance Cindy Crawford did ring your phone, you would complain that she wanted to be wined and dined in Beverly Hills as opposed to your suggestion of Appelby's. Obviously, there is never going to be a connection there. Things will never "balance" out.

I have come to the conclusion that your son's baseball career is almost over. Way, way, way too many unreasonable conditions and expectations there by "his" family. I wish your son all the best in his academic endeavors and I would suggest he hurredly get his applications out there. I wish him and your family all the best in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
I believe that players who haven't been offered even a non-scholarship guaranteed roster spot midway through their senior season are unlikely to receive such an offer from a D1.

That is certainly one of my main concerns. Although he did get some exposure, some of these schools only got a glimpse of him, and want to see him play in a game. I think a few are also looking for an increase in his MPH as the year goes on.
A few weeks ago a D1 that is interested in him was going to see him play since we were in town for a tourney. He was scheduled to pitch in the championship game of the tourney and everything was set. As bad luck would have it, our team was defeated in the semi's in extra innings, and we had to play in the consolation game at a different time. The coach could not make that game because his own team was playing then. So we are left with him trying to see our son later this year. Who knows if he will ever get the chance with conflicting schedules. So what is one to do when things like that happen.
Some of these schools are following his progress because the HS coaches get calls checking up on him. We also get emails requesting new video and how he is doing this season. Whether that is going to translate into anything is yet to be seen. I gather you are not that optimistic.

quote:

Originally posted by fillsfan:
If a $50K school is out of the question a baseball scholly, most likely, won't make it much more affordable.

I agree with your assessment. The $50k school indicated they might have some money the next year, but that is a big if. We asked them to explore whether he could get any academic aid which could also help. Otherwise we are in no position to afford a school that expensive. Obviously these are not Florida schools for the most part, otherwise our Florida prepaid and Bright Futures would cover the cost. Why can't the Duke's, Notre Dame's and Virginia's of the college world be located in Florida.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Vector - you have started some of the most perplexing threads of all time and they all seem to sprial down into the same circles. Even in this thread, you've gotten outstanding advice but it never seems quite good enough.

Lets talk metaphorically for a moment...

You seem like a guy who might be able to get a date with someone like Ellen DeGeneres or Rosie O'Donnell (assuming they were on the market for guys) yet you complain that Cindy Crawford is not ringing your phone. If on the remote chance Cindy Crawford did ring your phone, you would complain that she wanted to be wined and dined in Beverly Hills as opposed to your suggestion of Appelby's. Obviously, there is never going to be a connection there. Things will never "balance" out.

I take the advice into consideration, and that is why I solicit it. I started this thread with a very specific question about whether a LOI was possible for a senior the following year. It is apparent that it is not, so I am moving on from that idea.

On a funny note, you do realize that you picked two unattractive L esbians as the prime choices for a date, don't you. In that analogy you bet I'd be pursuing Cindy from now until the end of time. Wouldn't you?

If I read you right, Cindy is the $50k school. While we like the thought of him going there, it would be unaffordable to send him there. That combined with no guarantee he would even make the roster makes that school a non starter unless money could come from somewhere. I only mentioned it to show there has been some interest/options.

So in a way we are in a better position than when I came to the forum having never promoted my son at all. The strange thing is that we have had interest from some D1's and D3's, but not from D2's or NAIA's which does not make sense to me. The D1's do make sense because of the type of events we attended, and us sending video footage, etc. However we did not pursue D3's yet we got on their radar. Yet nary a peep from the other two divisions. Any idea why it has worked out that way?

I agree with alot of the advice in this thread. I am a big proponent of JUCO. Let's start with the minimal cost compared to a 4 year, especially a private school. Ssecondly, I've said this before, nobody and I mean nobody will care that a kid went to a JUCO for 2 years if he graduates with good grades from a good (not even great) 4 yr such as FSU, UF or, ehem,the "dream school" (which I'm sure we all know which it is, also 2013 Son's dream school). Third, a realization must come that perhaps son is not quite at the level of a UM, FSU, UF, etc, right now (but not to say he is not D1 level at all) (a tough pill I and son had to swallow), but certainly could be with 2 years of development. Again, this perspective comes from a person who went all the way in school. Our kids are not us, after all he will be an adult, it should be his decision, with input and advice from the parents of course. JMO.

Have you looked at some of the JUCO rosters in this state. Several studs on those rosters. Drafted kids, PG 9s and 10s. I know your situation, I will not comment anymore on JUCOs, just couldn't resist.

Anyways, I hope things work out for all of you. I anticipate it will in the end.

Just for the record...

There are still DI's recruiting 2011 players. Pitching is the number 1 attraction.

Spots do open up after the college season ends. As we all know, scholarships are year to year. Transfers are common, though less common than a few years ago. Juniors are lost to the draft, recruits are lost to the draft. Academic casualties, injuries, players just hanging it up, etc. Many colleges lose a player or two or more for various reasons. This can create openings.

Most all of the higher profile high school players are already committed. This creates a unique situation where the best available becomes a target for certain programs. Of course, everything is still based on the ability among the best available.

So the bottom line, if a "pitcher" is a late bloomer and shows outstanding ability during his senior year, there will be opportunities. Colleges tend to want the best available pitchers. Sure, many colleges are set and have been for a long time. It would take an abnormally talented pitcher for them to create something. But when a mid 90s guy shows up in June, even those schools will be trying to figure something out. Other DIs will be still looking for pitchers who can help their program in the summer.

TPM, I can give many examples of pitchers and players that signed late by a college that found themselves needing another player. Every July in the WWBA 18U there are many college recruiters still looking for a player or two, especially a pitcher.

As far as naming a late recruit, Jason Berken (Clemson) would be one you know very well. On the other hand, recruiting has changed a lot since Berken was recruited. Early signing period has become much more popular. Many top programs have filled their 2012 class already with verbal commitments.

I too think Juco can be a good option. But there really are programs that don't recruit JC players. I do think people sometimes get too caught up in the DI thing. Some pitchers develop late (in college) and that can happen at any level of college baseball. Pitchers have a big advantage over position players at DII and DIII. They don't use different radar guns for DI or DIII.

Then again, DIIIs don't offer athletic scholarships. But there are institutional grants, academic money, and other ways to help finance a DIII education. We all know that there are many great academic DIIIs.

It would be great if "Vector's" son was already signed with a school that he's excited about, but he isn't. The JC route is not attractive evidently, but there's no rush to get that done. If a pitcher is good enough, Juco can be an option all summer. There are good academic DIII schools that will take a pitcher late in the summer.

So the question seems to be, will Vector's son get a late scholarship offer from a good academic DI or DII that is acceptable in June or July? It's possible, but if it doesn't happen, there are always other options. A good student with pitching ability is going to land somewhere. Of course, the college coach needs to believe in that ability.

PG,
Yup there are definetly schools that are still recruiting players, without a doubt. I am not going to count Berken as the recruiting landscape has changed so much. I know of several whose sons got late opportunities (not talking JUCO now but HS) and for most IT DID NOT WORK OUT. These were opportunities that just came out of nowhere, not ones that had been watching players for awhile. Yup it happens, but will it be a situation the family can live with?

I think that how Vector words his posts doesn't help his cause.

You are absolutely right, in that what really will be important is how the player does this season, for those to take notice, for any senior who has not committed. A good student with pitching ability will find a spot, one just has to resolve themselves it probably isn't going to be the "dream" school which is what we hear about continuosly.

However, it is of my opinion that regardless, the player should be accepted and has committed for college somewhere, no one has to pay tuition as yet.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Just for the record...

There are still DI's recruiting 2011 players. Pitching is the number 1 attraction.

Spots do open up after the college season ends. As we all know, scholarships are year to year. Transfers are common, though less common than a few years ago. Juniors are lost to the draft, recruits are lost to the draft. Academic casualties, injuries, players just hanging it up, etc. Many colleges lose a player or two or more for various reasons. This can create openings.

Most all of the higher profile high school players are already committed. This creates a unique situation where the best available becomes a target for certain programs. Of course, everything is still based on the ability among the best available.

So the bottom line, if a "pitcher" is a late bloomer and shows outstanding ability during his senior year, there will be opportunities. Colleges tend to want the best available pitchers. Sure, many colleges are set and have been for a long time. It would take an abnormally talented pitcher for them to create something. But when a mid 90s guy shows up in June, even those schools will be trying to figure something out. Other DIs will be still looking for pitchers who can help their program in the summer.

TPM, I can give many examples of pitchers and players that signed late by a college that found themselves needing another player. Every July in the WWBA 18U there are many college recruiters still looking for a player or two, especially a pitcher.

As far as naming a late recruit, Jason Berken (Clemson) would be one you know very well. On the other hand, recruiting has changed a lot since Berken was recruited. Early signing period has become much more popular. Many top programs have filled their 2012 class already with verbal commitments.

I too think Juco can be a good option. But there really are programs that don't recruit JC players. I do think people sometimes get too caught up in the DI thing. Some pitchers develop late (in college) and that can happen at any level of college baseball. Pitchers have a big advantage over position players at DII and DIII. They don't use different radar guns for DI or DIII.

Then again, DIIIs don't offer athletic scholarships. But there are institutional grants, academic money, and other ways to help finance a DIII education. We all know that there are many great academic DIIIs.

It would be great if "Vector's" son was already signed with a school that he's excited about, but he isn't. The JC route is not attractive evidently, but there's no rush to get that done. If a pitcher is good enough, Juco can be an option all summer. There are good academic DIII schools that will take a pitcher late in the summer.

So the question seems to be, will Vector's son get a late scholarship offer from a good academic DI or DII that is acceptable in June or July? It's possible, but if it doesn't happen, there are always other options. A good student with pitching ability is going to land somewhere. Of course, the college coach needs to believe in that ability.

The bottom line is if April goes by and he is not committed anywhere as a coach it throws up a red flag. Yes, players "come on" sometimes during senior year but at that point the fit needs to be perfect being most of the scholarship money will be spent or will be going towards a JC guy. In my opinion you should look into JC's if he wants to get to that D1 dream school. To turn away from any options this late in the game is an absolute mistake.

Your going to take your gen. eds the first 2 years anywhere you go, why not do it at a JC and have a chance to play?

Different situation but know an AFLAC player that committed to an SEC school in July, after he graduated. Room can be made for a player. That being said, the best recruiting advice we got was to "go where you are wanted."

quote:

Originally posted by 2013 Dad:
Our kids are not us, after all he will be an adult, it should be his decision, with input and advice from the parents of course. JMO.

Have you looked at some of the JUCO rosters in this state.

I personally do not have the issues with JC's that my wife does. Having said that, I do agree with certain aspects of her point of view. If baseball were the only consideration, then yes, a JC might be the perfect fit for a pitcher about a year behind physically like our son.

I disagree somewhat with the notion that it is the kids decision and parents are essentially advisor's. I guess that would be true if the kid was going to pay his own way, but if the parents are footing the bill, I think they need to be more involved. Furthermore, how many kids really see the big picture at 17 years old? They can pick schools for all sorts of irrational reasons, whether it be a girl, party school, sports, etc. without taking important things into account.

Anyway, I appreciate your point of view. I guess it just depends on each families situation and what their son is like. Ours no longer expects the top D1's to come calling, so we are making progress in that regard.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Just for the record...

As usual your posts are informative and well measured.

You have a PM.

quote:

Originally posted by UticaBrewersGM:
The bottom line is if April goes by and he is not committed anywhere as a coach it throws up a red flag.

What makes April a benchmark for being signed, otherwise it constitutes a red flag?

quote:

Originally posted by UticaBrewersGM:
Yes, players "come on" sometimes during senior year but at that point the fit needs to be perfect being most of the scholarship money will be spent or will be going towards a JC guy.

I agree with you, hence the reason I am getting more concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by UticaBrewersGM:
In my opinion you should look into JC's if he wants to get to that D1 dream school. To turn away from any options this late in the game is an absolute mistake.

Your going to take your gen. eds the first 2 years anywhere you go, why not do it at a JC and have a chance to play?

Though I detest discussing the JC issue, I do understand why you and so many people suggest it as a viable alternative. In our case it is just not a realistic option unless my wife has a change of heart. I could go into details about why my wife feels the way she does, but discussing/debating her perspective on this forum will not change anything, and only frustrate the participants.

quote:

Posted March 29,

Though I detest discussing the JC issue, I do understand why you and so many people suggest it as a viable alternative. In our case it is just not a realistic option unless my wife has a change of heart. I could go into details about why my wife feels the way she does, but discussing/debating her perspective on this forum will not change anything, and only frustrate the participants.

Vector:

If you choice comes down to getting aid from a JC versus spending 35 to 50K to pay to play at a D111, what will you do?

quote:

Originally posted by Mark B:


Vector:

If you choice comes down to getting aid from a JC versus spending 35 to 50K to pay to play at a D111, what will you do?

I am sincerely hoping those will not be our only two options. Any public Florida college will be covered by our FPP plan, including JC's, so aid from them is not needed.
As to the D3's and their typical cost, we do have several which have assured us that with my sons good grades, he will get some type of financial assistance. That is probably not true of all colleges because if they are high end academically, his grades might not be good enough. That is also true even for out of state or private D-1's that have high academic standards. They might be able to get him in, but will any money be available will be the question. I'm trying to save as much as possible in anticipation of paying a portion, but if it is too big a nut to crack, I have not stored enough for the 4 year winter.

Heck, I even had a coach ask me directly, "are you rich"? It was an unusual question coming from a stranger. When I said no, that I was middle class, he look disappointed and said he would like my son in his program, but they had no money to give in 2011. He made it sound like money could become available, and/or that money would be there the following year. When I asked him if the money the following year would be guaranteed, he said it would depend on my sons performance. So while this school was not $50k, it was still too much for 4 years on just a chance of getting assistance after the 1st year.

quote:

I disagree somewhat with the notion that it is the kids decision and parents are essentially advisor's. I guess that would be true if the kid was going to pay his own way, but if the parents are footing the bill, I think they need to be more involved. Furthermore, how many kids really see the big picture at 17 years old? They can pick schools for all sorts of irrational reasons, whether it be a girl, party school, sports, etc. without taking important things into account.

And, to add to your thoughts, once they are in college, they can make choices for all sorts of irrational reasons, whether it be a girl, party, gambling, video game, indecision, Greeks, peer pressures, being overwhelmed and many other reasons.
I would propose that college choices and, once there, making the choices to succeed in college and college baseball is a sobering experience for most HS seniors, soon to become college freshman in about 5 short months.
At some point, we as parents, cannot shield and protect them any longer. They need to make choices.
We as parents need to trust that all that went before has created and generated within them the sense of self esteem from inner strength and self respect through which great decisions and choices can be made.
If we as parents, by April of the HS senior year, are feeling we cannot empower our son's in these judgments and choices, I would ask is that us, or them?
If we as parents are not willing to empower our son's by April of their HS senior year, because of the fears and concerns which Vector describes, when we do start?
My very firm belief is next August when they are on a campus where the coach/college may have chosen them 3-4 to up to 8 weeks before could be too late. Might not be, of course.
I am not saying we abdicate parental involvement and oversight. Working with them to appreciate what is financially realistic for a family is extremely important. Our son's are usually very appreciative and learn from this.
If the hard reality of DI coaches not knocking down the door and filling the mail box and email box is still not being appreciated, we can help with that...or we can perpetuate their hopes however unrealistic they might be.
Trusting and transitioning our sons to the point where they can make those choices needed to succeed beyond the cocoon of our home and their HS, whether it be in the job market, in the military, or in college and on a college baseball diamond is an intimidating parental experience.
Just seems to me that for college and college baseball, once we drop them off in August, no matter what our fears and hesitance, we are no longer making decisions.
That is our parental reality. I know for my wife and I, there was plenty of reflection and emotion during our travel home and for many days thereafter, hoping he was happy and would make the very best of the choice... he made and we supported.

quote:

Vector posted: Heck, I even had a coach ask me directly, "are you rich"? It was an unusual question coming from a stranger. When I said no, that I was middle class, he look disappointed and said he would like my son in his program, but they had no money to give in 2011.

It's only an unusual question if your child is not being recruited for a partial scholarship non-revenue sport. Heard it from ACC private, Ivy, etc.

I agree that a player not committed to ANY academic school could send up a red flag, and not necessarily to do with their ability on the field or the classroom.

I guess we all see things differently, living in FL and with pre paid tuition, along with bright futures and talented top 20, not committed, my son would have been enrolled for fall for college (his choice), without baseball. If education is an important factor than that should be the #1 priority. Absolutely there are opportunities that come up, that should have nothing to do with not applying or enrolling to college (not stating this was not done just saying).

I am not so sure of the availability of JUCO opportunities, especially here in FL, the way they used to be, someone might want to comment on that. Is is because of the new ttransfer rules?

Even with a signed NLI, and with the coaches reasurrance, we and son weren't really all that comfortable until he received his acceptance letter. That came in spring, so mentally son had been preparing for going to college for at least 6 months. For him that was good, because he is just one of those that likes planning in advance, not last minute stuff (though has learned through his job to expect the unexpected).

Son's choice of where he woud head to was his decision, but before all was said and done, way before anything, we sat down and discussed the financial aspect and even though we didn't have to, it was agreed that he would take over some of the responsibility, if costs were too high. We did that on purpose, as we felt that he had a responsibility as both his dad and I did in college (and our folks could well afford it).

Do coaches ask parents if they are rich? I just can't imagine anyone asking that, perhaps asking what you did for a living might help them to see if financial aid is needed, but to ask if one is rich?

quote:

So while this school was not $50k, it was still too much for 4 years on just a chance of getting assistance after the 1st year.

Vector, with all that gets posted on this site, this comment seems hard to understand in the baseball context.
Doesn't every DI scholarship college baseball player have that same risk or chance?
As we read on this and other sites, far too often, many, many DI scholarships and roster spots are not renewed after one year. In another thread you had posted of you and your son visiting Pepperdine earlier this year.
Following the 2009 season, they had abundant roster turnover, with more than a few being highly recruited freshman pitchers.
Sorry, not understanding what you are seeking and expecting from the DI college coaches by your discussion summary as I think many DI coaches would say something nearly identical.

Can someone answer this?

If Vector's son enrolls in a 'dream school' under the premise of making the team as a walk on (no athletic aid, non-recruited), and does not make it past fall tryouts/practice, is Vector Jr. free to transfer to/contact other schools to pursue alternative opportunities without the one year sit-out penalty?

quote:

Originally posted by AntzDad:
Can someone answer this?

If Vector's son enrolls in a 'dream school' under the premise of making the team as a walk on (no athletic aid, non-recruited), and does not make it past fall tryouts/practice, is Vector Jr. free to transfer to/contact other schools to pursue alternative opportunities without the one year sit-out penalty?

I think if the player was NOT recruited (he doesn't have to sit), but 3FG would be the one to ask.

quote:

Originally posted by AntzDad:
Can someone answer this?

If Vector's son enrolls in a 'dream school' under the premise of making the team as a walk on (no athletic aid, non-recruited), and does not make it past fall tryouts/practice, is Vector Jr. free to transfer to/contact other schools to pursue alternative opportunities without the one year sit-out penalty?

Gladly did not have to go thru that nightmare scenario.

quote:

Originally posted by AntzDad:
If Vector's son enrolls in a 'dream school' under the premise of making the team as a walk on (no athletic aid, non-recruited), and does not make it past fall tryouts/practice, is Vector Jr. free to transfer to/contact other schools to pursue alternative opportunities without the one year sit-out penalty?

Yes. This question was already answered for Vector. The specific inquiry regarded D3 to D1 transfers, but the rule is the same for a transfer from any 4 year school to a D1 school.

However, if a player does not make the team at the first school, how will a subsequent school be able to evaluate him?

Also, if the transfer is to a D1 school, the player isn't eligible if he transfers mid-year. The effect is that a player who was recruited needs to transfer mid-year in order to be eligible for the season which is just over a year away, while a non-recruited player can wait until the next fall to transfer.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
And, to add to your thoughts, once they are in college, they can make choices for all sorts of irrational reasons, whether it be a girl, party, gambling, video game, indecision, Greeks, peer pressures, being overwhelmed and many other reasons.

I agree with you that there is only so much you can do and eventually they will need to make many choices on their own.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
We as parents need to trust that all that went before has created and generated within them the sense of self esteem from inner strength and self respect through which great decisions and choices can be made.

I am not saying we abdicate parental involvement and oversight. Working with them to appreciate what is financially realistic for a family is extremely important. Our son's are usually very appreciative and learn from this.

I think we agree on most things in this regard. The only caveat is that the actual choice of the school is still of great importance, just like it was in HS. Granted many people send their kids to public school, and at least down here it is based on where you live, nothing more. However for those of us who have sent our kids to private school, we know that the right choice can make all the difference in how they thrive. That is especially true of our son in that he has always gotten good grades, is socially popular, and has never been in trouble. We feel that has a lot to do with the school we chose for him. So if we extrapolate that out to college, we are hoping to help him make the best choice possible from among the ones that fit a few criteria.
My wife and I know this is one of the last big things we are going to have direct control over, so it is important enough to us not to abdicate our responsibility as parents. If not for the baseball aspect, we would already have decided (with his input) what the best university would be, and he would be set to attend.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:

It's only an unusual question if your child is not being recruited for a partial scholarship non-revenue sport. Heard it from ACC private, Ivy, etc.

I realize that now, but at the time it seemed strange. It was very direct, but he made his point very clear so there was no misunderstanding.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:

Vector, with all that gets posted on this site, this comment seems hard to understand in the baseball context.
Doesn't every DI scholarship college baseball player have that same risk or chance?
As we read on this and other sites, far too often, many, many DI scholarships and roster spots are not renewed after one year. In another thread you had posted of you and your son visiting Pepperdine earlier this year.
Following the 2009 season, they had abundant roster turnover, with more than a few being highly recruited freshman pitchers.
Sorry, not understanding what you are seeking and expecting from the DI college coaches by your discussion summary as I think many DI coaches would say something nearly identical.

It simply means that at least for the first year, we want him to go to a program that barring injury will have a spot guaranteed on the roster for him. I know playing time will be allocated based on ability and the coaches overall philosophy regarding freshmen, but at least he will be working out and improving. Sending him to a school where he could not make the team based on lack of skill or no roster spots would not make sense because he would be miserable. Also sending him to a school we could not afford without assistance would not make sense on the possibility he could get money the following year. So trying to find a college that wants him in their program and also meets the criteria we are looking for is the challenge.
I cannot imagine too many kids who love baseball and that can play at the college level would go to a school where they could not make the team.
That alone helped me to convince him that the who's who of top D1 baseball had to be taken off his list, because if they wanted him, he would already know.

BTW - Our visit to Pepperdine was strictly for fun, having nothing to do with meeting the coaches. That would be a great school for him to attend, but he is not on their radar. Still my son got a kick out of the field and location. That combined with all the pretty girls at the Santa Monica Pier up the road had his head swimming. What young man would not want to go to school there?

You say he's a year away. What did you decide about American Baseball Institute? Do you think they could get him where he needs to be and wants to go?

quote:

I realize that now, but at the time it seemed strange. It was very direct, but he made his point very clear so there was no misunderstanding.

Most experienced coaches can be, and usually are, rather blunt just for that purpose. They tend to become more blunt with parents after they are turned down, and with their players after enrollment.

I really have to shake my head at this one.

Antzdad, if he can't afford college how could afford, ABI?

Who says he's a "year away"? Why are we to assume that going away to play college is going to make you better, doesn't a lot of it depend on teh program?

All depends on what you want to get out of teh whole experience, would a possible walk on opportunity at a better bb program be better than a full scholarship at a school where the development isn't as good?

The way I see it, OP and family wants it all, that's ok, more power to them. It might happen and it might not, but for now best thing is to get squared away for college next year, doesn't affect anything if he goes to school somewhere else.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
for now best thing is to get squared away for college next year

ABI was something Vector mentioned before.

TPM, I agree with you. Don't give up on Plan A, but Plan B should be determined, soon.

quote:

Originally posted by AntzDad:
You say he's a year away. What did you decide about American Baseball Institute? Do you think they could get him where he needs to be and wants to go?

It was just an inquiry based on a friends recommendation. His son and mine are in two different boats headed in different directions. I didn't think it was a fit, but I decided to inquire here to see other peoples perspective on it.

I was wondering what a year away means, year away from what?