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In a game today, batter flinches on a 3-2 pitch, starts to swing but sure looks like he holds up and doesn't go around. That must have been how the plate ump saw it too, since he calls ball 4.  Batter starts down to first base.  He gets maybe 10-15 feet  out of the box and field ump, standing on the first base line, signals strike three.   End of inning.  Neither the catcher nor the plate ump asked him for help.  (I'm sitting right behind home plate, so I don't think I missed the appeal. If it was made, it certainly wasn't done very demonstratively.  In fact, the whole crowd was shocked.  So I don't think anybody else saw an appeal being made either.)   I've never seen that.  Can the base ump really overrule a no swing call on a check swing without an appeal being made?  

Last edited by SluggerDad
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Personally, I would not call it an advanced mechanic. I've never even heard of it. MLB is as advanced as it gets and this would never happen. It's the PU's call unless he asks for help.

 

If I ever did that to my partner, I'd get a really ugly look from him. As we have been told, if you have something to say, have a mechanic established to get that point across to your partner (whose call it really is) without anyone else knowing you have something to say. That could be taking a few small steps in his direction while making eye contact, it could be a subtle physical sign that just lets him know he kicked the call and that he should get your opinion.

 

It's getting worse by the weekend the number of umpires that think everyone is there to see them call the game.  They should do their jobs and stay out of the spotlight at all costs.  We had one yesterday that was in his 70's (not the issue) that kept flirting with a players grandma behind the backstop!  In a previously rained out, now 90 min time limited game, do your damn job and keep it moving sir!!

Originally Posted by CoachPaul:

Personally, I would not call it an advanced mechanic. I've never even heard of it. MLB is as advanced as it gets and this would never happen. It's the PU's call unless he asks for help.

 

 

This is from MLBUM:

 

8.7 "VOLUNTARY STRIKE"

In the situation where the third strike eludes the catcher on a half-swing and the batter-runner is entitled to run to first base, the appeal should be made to the base umpire instantly (without waiting for a request from the defense); but even if the appeal is not instant, the appropriate base umpire should immediately and voluntarily make a call of strike IF the base umpire is going to reverse the plate umpire's call. This will give the batter the immediate opportunity to run.

 

 

Originally Posted by Coach Bob:

It's getting worse by the weekend the number of umpires that think everyone is there to see them call the game.  They should do their jobs and stay out of the spotlight at all costs.  

Sometimes doing your job puts you in the spotlight.  And, that's not meant to excuse the umpire in your story.

Not in high school.  The Plate Umpire SHOULD ask for help immediately.  But if he does not then the field umpires need to stay quiet.

 

I'm not a MLB umpire so I won't comment on their rule set.  But in high school a field umpire should NOT give a ball ("No he did not" / safe signal) or strike ("Yes he did / fist pump) call without FIRST being asked ("Did he go?" / point with the left hand) by the plate umpire.

 

If you do that with me you'll only do it once... I absolutely promise.

Originally Posted by Preston Davis:

Not in high school.  The Plate Umpire SHOULD ask for help immediately.  But if he does not then the field umpires need to stay quiet.

 

I'm not a MLB umpire so I won't comment on their rule set.  But in high school a field umpire should NOT give a ball ("No he did not" / safe signal) or strike ("Yes he did / fist pump) call without FIRST being asked ("Did he go?" / point with the left hand) by the plate umpire.

 

If you do that with me you'll only do it once... I absolutely promise.

 

I don’t understand why HSB is any different than rec ball, tournament ball, college ball, MiL ball, or any other kind of ball. If what your saying is based on some NFHS rule, case or other guidance from some authority, please reference it. if it’s something that you BELIEVE is right and don‘t want to allow others to have their own beliefs, it seems to me that you’re lookin’ for trouble.

 

 

Getting this wrong can cause the fiasco sequence of: 1) Plate umpire calls ball four, 2) runner on first starts jogging toward second, 3) defensive team asks plate umpire to get help, 4) plate umpire asks for help, 5) base umpire rings up strike three, 6) catcher fires down to second to complete apparent double play, 7) players, coaches, and fans of the team at bat don't believe the base umpire in B or C has a decent view and are outraged by both outs; players, coaches, and fans of the team in the field are infuriated by the umpire crew's attempt to rectify the situation. 

 

This is a preventable scenario, but it's primarily up to the plate umpire to prevent it. 

 

In this situation (3-2 count, runner on first, any possible appeal of checked swing), I will ask for help without prompting before I verbally call the pitch a ball. That way, if any runners get caught in no-man's land by a strike call, their blood is on their own hands for anticipating a call, not on mine for misleading them.

 

If I failed to do this and my partner took the initiative to ring up the batter before the above fiasco could unfold, I would probably be grateful after I thought it through.

It's in the Mechanics Manual on page 83.  Thanks.  Right there in black and white.

 

"The field umpire does NOT give his judgement on a pitch unless requested for assistance by the home plate umpire.  Only pitches which have originally been called a ball may be requested for more information.  Strikes are NEVER questioned."

 

A strike is a strike FOREVER.  And if the HP Ump don't ask for help, then the FU keeps his mouth shut... FOREVER!!!

Originally Posted by Preston Davis:

It's in the Mechanics Manual on page 83.  Thanks.  Right there in black and white.

 

"The field umpire does NOT give his judgement on a pitch unless requested for assistance by the home plate umpire.  Only pitches which have originally been called a ball may be requested for more information.  Strikes are NEVER questioned."

 

A strike is a strike FOREVER.  And if the HP Ump don't ask for help, then the FU keeps his mouth shut... FOREVER!!!

Word of advice, with the "When in Rome" exception...

 

Take your FED mechanics manual and use it for toilet paper or for lighting a bonfire. Those are the only ways it becomes a productive item.

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