I have been waiting for this kind of articlehttp://sportsillustrated.cnn.c...l?eref=si_topstories
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Bighit, thanks for posting this. My stepdad runs a private foundation, and Carlos Delgado gives a lot of money through the foundation to support programs in the poorest areas in Puerto Rico. The funds go toward a girls school and a program modeled after the Boys and Girls clubs. In the offseason, he visits his projects and takes a real interest in them. A very classy guy. 
Thanks a lot BigHit...I really enjoyed that article!
I sure all of you have heard the expression, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me....
I am sure Delgado is a wonderful guy. How does this writer know exactly Delgado is clean? Because he says so? Alex Rodriguez told Katy Couric he was clean. Why is Delgoado's denial any different? Because he is a nice guy and likable and A-Rod isn't?
If someone were to hold a gun to my head, I am guessing every player on that list used them. I have been proven right over and over and over again.... If a guy like Andy Pettite used them, I am guessing just about everybody used them. I am sorry to say these things but the evidence is on my side....
I am sure Delgado is a wonderful guy. How does this writer know exactly Delgado is clean? Because he says so? Alex Rodriguez told Katy Couric he was clean. Why is Delgoado's denial any different? Because he is a nice guy and likable and A-Rod isn't?
If someone were to hold a gun to my head, I am guessing every player on that list used them. I have been proven right over and over and over again.... If a guy like Andy Pettite used them, I am guessing just about everybody used them. I am sorry to say these things but the evidence is on my side....
CD,
Guilty until proven Innocent!
In addition to our legal system... Something doesn't seem quite fair about that.
Guilty until proven Innocent!
In addition to our legal system... Something doesn't seem quite fair about that.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
CD,
Guilty until proven Innocent!
In addition to our legal system... Something doesn't seem quite fair about that.
PG - I knew I would get called out on that and I am a lawyer. The A-Rod thing has made me a skeptic
As if I already was not one....Actually my point was not about Delgado's guilt or innocence. Who made the guy who wrote the article the judge and jury?
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Actually my point was not about Delgado's guilt or innocence. Who made the guy who wrote the article the judge and jury?
That's easy to answer. The publisher who told the editor he needed sensational stories that sell magazines or he's fired.
They used the mortgage model, to he_ll with the facts, let's churn some numbers and pretend it's all real.
quote:Who made the guy who wrote the article the judge and jury?
Good point! And there is plenty reason to be skeptical.
That said, I find it hard to believe that they were all on steroids. Guess that would include my son, and everyone else that played in the past 15-20 years or so. My son came up and played right through the worst of the steroid era. Is he guilty? To be truthful... I really don't know, but I think not. He has told me about many who have juiced.
A question... How many Dads and Moms think their adult son would tell them he took steroids or HGH? Just curious what people think their son would tell them, if anything.
quote:A question... How many Dads and Moms think their adult son would tell them he took steroids or HGH? Just curious what people think their son would tell them, if anything.
My answer is the same as yours...being totally honest, I really don't know (for sure). I believe it would be naive to say otherwise.
I knew Carlos while he played here in St Catharines for the Niagara Stompers and I find it surprising and disrespectful tp speculate on a great human being. Compaing him to A Rod is a joke. Carlos best friend on the Jay was Shawn Green my fovorite player and I canm gaurentee Shawn is way above doping.
Bobby Thigpen was Rafeal Palmieros teammate at Miss State. They were very close, as Thiggy played OF along with Palmiero and Will Clark.
I was fishing with Thigpen and from his mouth to my ear, "no way would Palmiero ever take a steroid". A couple of months later the cat was out of the bag on Raffy. Thigpen was visibly shocked.
We know what we want to believe, we don't truly know anything. There are no guarantees.
I was fishing with Thigpen and from his mouth to my ear, "no way would Palmiero ever take a steroid". A couple of months later the cat was out of the bag on Raffy. Thigpen was visibly shocked.
We know what we want to believe, we don't truly know anything. There are no guarantees.
You are right, the only one who knows for sure is the player but if you knew Shawn you would bet on him. A very strong sense of right and wrong mixed with a deep devout Jewish back ground.
Call me a sucker, but I believe Delgado. He has shown by his actions that he cares about things much larger and more important than himself, and baseball. I think he's telling the truth, and it's nice, for once, to read something positive.
Not about any certain player, but….
How would it be looked on if someone took steroids to make millions…. Then he used most all his money to do great things like helping to feed starving people or helping the homeless or finding a cure for pediatric cancer…
Kind of a modern day Robin Hood – Risking everything - Taking from the rich and giving to the poor, except in this case the rich gladly gave him the money.
A fantasy, perhaps, but how does everyone feel about Robin Hood?
How would it be looked on if someone took steroids to make millions…. Then he used most all his money to do great things like helping to feed starving people or helping the homeless or finding a cure for pediatric cancer…
Kind of a modern day Robin Hood – Risking everything - Taking from the rich and giving to the poor, except in this case the rich gladly gave him the money.
A fantasy, perhaps, but how does everyone feel about Robin Hood?
I agree. He was always very modest and considerate of others. I have no problem believing him. When my son was young he with other players would throw the ball around with him and take time to talk and encourage him. He was a role model on and off the field.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
How would it be looked on if someone took steroids to make millions…. Then he used most all his money to do great things like helping to feed starving people or helping the homeless or finding a cure for pediatric cancer…
Interesting hypothetical. Obviously intent would be a huge factor in judgement. I have serious doubts as to the altruisim of acts that involve "skirting" the rules. It's the age old argument of do the ends justify the means?
quote:Kind of a modern day Robin Hood – Risking everything - Taking from the rich and giving to the poor
We still talking baseball?
i haven't been in front of or been around all of the ped player's. i have read on here about some. how nice they are,treat kids well, have foundation's. so just because you use doesn't make you a mean,bad thug. these guy's have wives,kids, parents, go to church etc. they have an understanding of right and wrong. you wouldn't know most took it. parent rule 1) never say, my kid wouldn't.
in the past i have called them cheater's, now i'm not as quick to do that. i really don't know why that is either. i know right from wrong, i have morals. i don't think it's because i have a son in pro ball. but as dad04 pointed out ,that tends to be the case with pro parent's.
the one thing that bothered me when roger spoke on 60 minutes. he mentioned " eating viox like skittles, just to perform ". is that a ped? if he had a prescription i doubt that was the dosage. to me that was more detrimental to young player's, they can get viox quicker than a steroid. ten's of thousands get hooked on pain killers every year. yet baseball never acknowledged that statement.
while they know right from wrong,i think these players just didn't think it was that bad. even though it is an illegal drug, you seldom hear of any arrest's. does that make sense? how would i feel if my son loses out a spot to one of these ped guy's? i don't really know.
i'm not sticking up for them, heck i don't even like most of them. but i do understand it. i'm not really talking about the A- rods of the world, they had the quan. if the chance is there to make life changing money.......... what would we do? i know what you'll say, but we really don't know, do we?
in the past i have called them cheater's, now i'm not as quick to do that. i really don't know why that is either. i know right from wrong, i have morals. i don't think it's because i have a son in pro ball. but as dad04 pointed out ,that tends to be the case with pro parent's.
the one thing that bothered me when roger spoke on 60 minutes. he mentioned " eating viox like skittles, just to perform ". is that a ped? if he had a prescription i doubt that was the dosage. to me that was more detrimental to young player's, they can get viox quicker than a steroid. ten's of thousands get hooked on pain killers every year. yet baseball never acknowledged that statement.
while they know right from wrong,i think these players just didn't think it was that bad. even though it is an illegal drug, you seldom hear of any arrest's. does that make sense? how would i feel if my son loses out a spot to one of these ped guy's? i don't really know.
i'm not sticking up for them, heck i don't even like most of them. but i do understand it. i'm not really talking about the A- rods of the world, they had the quan. if the chance is there to make life changing money.......... what would we do? i know what you'll say, but we really don't know, do we?
20 Dad,
My feelings run pretty similar to yours. If the hypocrites who said they were pure all fell in a well, I wouldn't try to get them out. But I can understand why they were taken. If I was 22 and someone said that I could make MLB if I took this drug but I would die at 40 I would have taken it. Now at 44? No way would I do that. All young people, especially athletes, think they are indestructible. It is part of their makeup.
I really feel for those who come from a poor background. If they were given a choice of a long life or being able to provide for their family, their kids families and their extended families by taking an illegal drug with no risk of being caught. Who would say no?
People already do extremely dangerous jobs to take care of their families for minimal pay. If you could be famous and rich? I don't think I would have said no when a lot were already taking it and having great success with almost no risk of getting caught. I would like to say I would never do something like that. But when I look in the mirror and become totally honest with myself, yea, I would have tried them.
My feelings run pretty similar to yours. If the hypocrites who said they were pure all fell in a well, I wouldn't try to get them out. But I can understand why they were taken. If I was 22 and someone said that I could make MLB if I took this drug but I would die at 40 I would have taken it. Now at 44? No way would I do that. All young people, especially athletes, think they are indestructible. It is part of their makeup.
I really feel for those who come from a poor background. If they were given a choice of a long life or being able to provide for their family, their kids families and their extended families by taking an illegal drug with no risk of being caught. Who would say no?
People already do extremely dangerous jobs to take care of their families for minimal pay. If you could be famous and rich? I don't think I would have said no when a lot were already taking it and having great success with almost no risk of getting caught. I would like to say I would never do something like that. But when I look in the mirror and become totally honest with myself, yea, I would have tried them.
PG,
I think you're talking situational ethics and how the end can justify the means.
The other side of the coin is for every potential "Robin Hood" there are 100's of Sosas and Bonds and the tragedy of kids doing harmful to themselves to become one of them.
Don't ever think the players are somehow victims because of the unfair scrutiny they're getting now. They all voted for the union's lawyers to protect them and hide them from scrutiny for years. This is self inflicted.
I think you're talking situational ethics and how the end can justify the means.
The other side of the coin is for every potential "Robin Hood" there are 100's of Sosas and Bonds and the tragedy of kids doing harmful to themselves to become one of them.
Don't ever think the players are somehow victims because of the unfair scrutiny they're getting now. They all voted for the union's lawyers to protect them and hide them from scrutiny for years. This is self inflicted.
quote:Posted February 27, 2009 10:15 AM Hide Post
Not about any certain player, but….
How would it be looked on if someone took steroids to make millions…. Then he used most all his money to do great things like helping to feed starving people or helping the homeless or finding a cure for pediatric cancer…
You very nearly described Lance Armstrong. True, he's never been guilty of a test that proved he used PEDs, but he did have a 9 year relationship with the infamous Dr. Ferrari. Who has since had over 50 clients banned from their professional sport for PED related offenses. Nearly all of Armstrong's teammates from the steroid era have been busted at one time or another. The guy does great things for cancer research and charities, but there is just way too much guilt by association for this guy. Having said that, when he visits a sick child in a hospital, or donates money to cancer research, or speaks at a fundraising event, I can't help but like the guy. It would be the same for a baseball player in a similar situation as you describe...
What came first the cancer or the steriods? He is a cancer survivor.I wonder if the steriods caused his type of cancer.
quote:Originally posted by igball:
I think you're talking situational ethics...
Aren't all ethics situational? There is no one defined standard. Every ethics argument starts at a different level and achieves different heights, depending on how the argumentor needs to fit them to justify his position.
All ethics became situational when we as a society abandoned our judeo-christian heritage.
quote:Originally posted by floridafan:
All ethics became situational when we as a society abandoned our judeo-christian heritage.
Help me out here and tell me, just exactly when was that...specifically.
Well CPLZ,
I suppose that it has been a slow steady erosion over quite some time. If you need evidence you would deny its veracity. If you can't see the results around you without my assistance than you do not want to. But I certainly do not wish to begin a controversial, philosophical antagonistic thread. Please excuse me for stating the obvious.
I suppose that it has been a slow steady erosion over quite some time. If you need evidence you would deny its veracity. If you can't see the results around you without my assistance than you do not want to. But I certainly do not wish to begin a controversial, philosophical antagonistic thread. Please excuse me for stating the obvious.
quote:Originally posted by floridafan:
Well CPLZ,
I suppose that it has been a slow steady erosion over quite some time. If you need evidence you would deny its veracity. If you can't see the results around you without my assistance than you do not want to. But I certainly do not wish to begin a controversial, philosophical antagonistic thread. Please excuse me for stating the obvious.
You are proving my point, and that is, you can slide the scale to wherever you need it to be, to support the argument you are trying to make.
Ethics are not a hard and fast and easily pinned down spot from which we start a basis for judgement. Obviously your ethics platform starts somewhere just pre A.D. but again, tough to nail down. Since that time, some parts of society have strayed from j-c hertiage, as you refer to it, while others have been attracted to it.
I have no problem with your beliefs, only the part where you think they are ethically superior to others to support your argument. A perfect example of the sliding ethics scale and why the concept of ethics is fantasy. As individuals and societially we constantly move the threshold as needed, to make it appear as if "we" operate within "the" framework of ethics.
It's as slippery as an eel.