Catchers

Please review the information from the MLB web site.

Or experiences with 30 years of catchers in International Goodwill Series and the Area Code games can summarize with teaching a catcher "quick feet", knowledge of the total game and the 6th tool.

Bob

Lots of questions there...

A lot depends on the coach, and the way he likes to construct his team.  Some carry more catchers than others. Some carry guys that can catch and play corner infield.  Some like big bats.  Some want defense.  On that kind of stuff, you are going to have to do your homework and research programs and coaches.

Metrics-wise it can vary, but D1 catchers need to be under 2.0 pop on the bag.  Throwing runners out is only part of the defensive equation - but it's really the only easily measurable one.  Having few wild pitches and passed balls is important as well - but it's hard to really quantify effectiveness on those.

The biggest factor is hitting of course.  If the player can hit, the coach will figure out a secondary position for him.

A high academic public top 50 doesn't leave you a ton of options. Realistically, there are few kids who can pull off both high academics and the baseball talent to play top 50.  If your kid is one of those, you will have options in the north south east and west.  It's just a matter of marketing.

Money wise - unless the player is a flat out sign anywhere stud, it seems anything more than 25% is really generous these days.  To put it in perspective, one of the guys my son played scout ball with is a PG 9.5 outfielder/corner infielder who throws 92 and runs a 6.7 60. His batspeed has been measured at 92.5 mph. He's also got an unweighted 3.9 GPA.  He committed to a top ACC school and is only getting 25%. It's a tough market out there.

2020.2023dad posted:

Is there a gold thread for someone with a catcher who is just starting down the path (assume a Freshman).  If so I could not find one.    

What are the key metrics/thresholds for a top defensive catcher with very strong arm, very good speed, bat speed etc?  When looking at PG draft boards how many  underclass catchers in a class are too many? Any red flags?   In addition to being a RHP, any advice on secondary position assuming the player is good at all of them?  We are looking for "high academic" D1 public with a top 50 baseball program but that's just our random criteria at this point.  

Also if we're from the Northern part of the Country, how much attention effort should we give to Southern schools (SEC ACC etc). I have heard that they are much less likely to offer but could and players from our school/program have gone to the likes of Vandy, LSU, and Kentucky in the past 5 years but many more end up in the Midwest and East Coast. 

How often to Catchers get $ (any general benchmarks e.g. 25% 50% is the norm,  etc)

Any good advice/experiences appreciated. 

Welcome to the site.  Very few 2020 catchers are good enough to have their search locked into a very small elite group of top schools already.  I suspect, based on some of your comments, that your son may actually be one of them.  That said, you will likely be taken a bit more seriously and get more specific direction/information if you provide some specifics about him instead of "top", "very strong", "very good" etc.  Can you provide maybe... throwing velo?  POP?  Bat speed?  Size?  Projected size?  Bloodlines?  Ratings or accolades at top events?  Schools showing interest?

If he fits that profile, I agree with Rob... attend the right events and he will get plenty of interest from all regions.  Regarding how many is too many C's in a recruiting class, other things to consider besides sheer numbers include quality, draft likelihood, how many years removed from your class.  It seems like many coaches will work a position hard on alternate years.  Then, they will get weeded out over the next 18 months and coach will reload.  So, it could make a big difference if the recruiting class is one year above you or two.  

I think, generally, the money and attention go first and by a good margin to the top P's, then SS, then it varies but C's, CF's with speed and power corner guys, depending on specific talent level.  If you truly stand out at the level you are targeting, you go to the front of the $$ line.  Most high % money offers are top arms.  But, again, if you are a power 5 D1 stud position player and you decide to go to an academic D1 that has a lower tier baseball program, front of the line.

Welcome 2020.2023DAD, you are going to love this site, the people that give so much of their time + the relationships that you'll make in the next couple of years years as your boys grow into men playing a sport they love.  Below are some basic guidelines / premises my son has used along his journey to where he wants to be:

High D1/ Elite JUCO Catcher

Physical Measurables:

• Height: 6'1”
• Weight: 200 lbs.

Stats:

• OB %: .500
• Slugging: .600 (Minimum 2 AB's per game)
• Pop Time: 1.95 and below consistently (Verified by a neutral source)
• ERA below 2.00

Coach Keys:

Top catching recruits are evaluated on several levels, most importantly, college coaches will look at the defensive and leadership skills that the catcher possesses. Prototypical High Division I/JUCO catching recruits are developed physically and usually stand anywhere between 5’10’’ and 6’4” and weigh between 185 and 220 pounds. While pop time is important, coaches will take a closer look at the catch and throw mechanics the catcher possesses as well as the arm strength shown while throwing to 2nd and 3rd base.

While defense comes first for a catcher, this group of coaches will also look for a player that demonstrates outstanding leadership skills and has the ability to work with an entire pitching staff. Another important factor in evaluating an elite catcher is hitting. Division I recruits at the catching position swing the bat well. Catchers are usually guys that can hit for power or average at a high level.

Hope that helps a little bit.  All the best to you + your boys.  Enjoy each + every experience with them, it goes fast!

I would say it depends, but a strong arm and a good bat is probably a good start because those are Tools that a Coach can't improve much in a college Team.

quickness of Transfer, footwork etc can be improved but not really how hard you throw (at least in a Team Setting).

in mlb the Focus has shifted a lot to framing the last 2-3 years, causing many Teams to put up with weaker bats and arms in favor to better receiving and statistically that is backed up to have a huge influence but in college ball that is simply not measurable because there is no pitch fx and catcher fx like in mlb.

still some Teams might put more value on subjectively good receiving skills (Keep it in the middle of the Body, quiet glove...) and it is nice to have a mechanically polished catcher because that saves the coaches a lot of time and work.

@CatsPop

what does ERA mean for a catcher? when he pitches too? or ERA of his pitchers? that would be quite unfair, wouldnt it?

While it isn't "golden" by any means this thread was pretty good:

http://community.hsbaseballweb...efine-a-good-catcher

CaCO3Girl posted:

While it isn't "golden" by any means this thread was pretty good:

http://community.hsbaseballweb...efine-a-good-catcher

Thank you!

Dominik85 posted:

@CatsPop

what does ERA mean for a catcher? when he pitches too? or ERA of his pitchers? that would be quite unfair, wouldnt it?

Yes, ERA of his pitcher's.  I believe it might have been proven to not have such a great effect - too many variables.

ERA is interesting but I think WAR would be a better measure for catchers on youth travel and HS teams if you have a big enough sample size and track it.   

CatsPop posted:

Dominik85 posted:

@CatsPop

what does ERA mean for a catcher? when he pitches too? or ERA of his pitchers? that would be quite unfair, wouldnt it?

Yes, ERA of his pitcher's.  I believe it might have been proven to not have such a great effect - too many variables.

2020.2023dad posted:

ERA is interesting but I think WAR would be a better measure for catchers on youth travel and HS teams if you have a big enough sample size and track it.   

 

 

this made me laugh - sorry but you will probably find it funnier in a few years...if you don't, well that is even kind of funnier!

Seems like a good spot for this nugget.  Interesting stuff.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/...ffects-stolen-bases/

old_school posted:

2020.2023dad posted:

ERA is interesting but I think WAR would be a better measure for catchers on youth travel and HS teams if you have a big enough sample size and track it.   

 

 

this made me laugh - sorry but you will probably find it funnier in a few years...if you don't, well that is even kind of funnier!

I actually really like numbers and patterns but this Sabermetric WAR stuff is just too much by far.

Then again this is the sport where it is perfectly fine for the announcers to say something random like "And Jones is coming up to the plate, you know he has the highest batting average of any Left handed Major Leauger born in a winter month who has played for less than 2 years.".......random much?

CACO;

the bottom line does this help the team win? there four places in a 7 inning game that determines the outcome. The catcher is involved 90% of the time.

"True story" Yogi was hitting and swing late off the Red Sox RHP. Ted Williams shifted a few steps to the LF foul line. Next pitch Yogi hit a line drive and Williams caught it on the line.

Williams is now at bat and Yogi says "how in the hell did you catch the ball".

Ted said "proper thinking"!!!!!!

Bob

JCG posted:

Seems like a good spot for this nugget.  Interesting stuff.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/...ffects-stolen-bases/

 

Great stuff JCG, thanks so much for sharing "What Statcast tell us about catchers + stolen bases" truly awesome!

I agree ... Truly awesome.   

My point with the WAR comment  (which i regret now  was made by CONSULTANT tho. The catcher is involved in 90% of the game and can decide the outcome of many games..for good or bad. 

One of the best catching instructions in the World lives in Santa Rosa. He is the Chicago Cubs Minor League Coordinator - Tim Cossins.

A few years ago at SSU before our tour of Japan, one of our young catchers [16 year old} was warming up.

Tim said "he is a one handed catcher"!

I said why?. Tim - because he uses his Easton catchers mitt [folded] like a 1b mitt. 

As a base runner or opposing coach, I would observe this and know the catcher will have a delayed throw to 2b. "the 6th tool".

You maybe interested in this book "Nine Sides of the Diamond".

Bob

Great recommend CONSULTANT. Thanks!

CatsPop posted:

Dominik85 posted:

@CatsPop

what does ERA mean for a catcher? when he pitches too? or ERA of his pitchers? that would be quite unfair, wouldnt it?

Yes, ERA of his pitcher's.  I believe it might have been proven to not have such a great effect - too many variables.

but what is when he caught crap pitchers? a catcher does have influence on the pitchers ERA with framing, pitch calling and also Controlling the running game but the effect of pitching Quality is still much higher.

HS catching stats really mean nothing as its pretty rare to get a good unbiased scorekeeper...... and college catching stats aren't much better.  i.e. my son got a passed ball on pitch thrown behind the batter that he got a glove on in an ACC game.....good HS stats do not overcome  slow bat, slow hands, below 80 velocity, slow feet etc.  as they are not usually fixable. 

College coaches are looking for guys that look like they can hit college pitching and have a strong arm.  Many coaches  are also looking for an athletic player that cleanly catches the ball consistently, can move behind the plate and is coachable.  No HS stat can give them that info.   They take technique into account when guessing at a prospects potential.  

Some top programs are only looking for the kid who can already do all these things.  So if you think your kid needs some development, be careful to pick a program with a legit catching coach where he will get a chance to develop, otherwise he might be on his own and/or might not get the best advice.

In a nutshell athletic, strong arm, squares the ball up and is coachable.  Sometimes they played shortstop in HS.