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Clarification

C cccsdad100+ posts
Two man crew, fly ball to the outfield, who has the catch and who should be watching the runner to insure he touches the bases as he runs? My assumption would be the filed ump would take the catch, becasue he's closer to the catch ( say the fielder has to dive or it's a shoe string catch. Plus the home plate ump is facing the field and has a better view of the runner. What say ye, old wise ones?
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Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by piaa_ump:
Are there any runners on base? and on which base(s)...

this will be easy to answer with this little bit of additional info.....


And, could you give an idea as to where in the OF the ball was hit? Down the RF line with no runners on will produce a different answer than left field with no runners on.
POLOGREENPOLOGREEN1,000+ posts
No runner on the Field Umpire has the ball from the right fielder to the rightfield line, raise your hand and YELL i'm going out ! HP Umpire then has the runners, he comes out from behind the plate towards the right side of the pitchers mound and circles around behind the pitchers mound to observe the runner.
I was taught to ues the "V" as the base umpire NEVER cross the path of the runners, make calls inside the "V" the HP umpire has the balls from the right fielder to the rightfield line and the left fielder to the leftfield line.

Remember; Fair Foul / Catch No Catch
D dash_riprock1,000+ posts
No runners - BU is the boss on catch/no-catch. If he goes out, he has fair/foul + catch/no-catch and PU has the B/R all the way to the plate unless and until BU gets home to take the play at the plate. BU can go out on anything from F8 (straight in or straight back) to RF foul territory. If BU does not go out, BU has all touches and plays on the B/R all the way to 3rd, PU has fair/foul + catch/no-catch and any play on the B/R at the plate.

With any runners, PU has all fair/fouls and is the boss on catch/no-catch. Generally, PU will call BU off the ball with F7 or F9 moving toward the foul line. If PU does not call BU off, BU has the catch/no-catch.
D dash_riprock1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
Is there any reason why some umpiring crews do not have the base umpires go into the outfield to observe the catch/no catch/

I see this all too often

In 2-man, BU will only go out on a trouble ball if there are no runners. BU will never cross the basepath.

In 3-man, one of the BU's will (should) go out on every trouble ball.
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
In two man, with no runners, BU will go out on he perceives to be trouble balls. There are some guidlines: Batted ball that will need a fair/foul decision, a ball taking a fielder to the fence, two or more fielders converging, fielder indicating a possible diving catch...

"Too often" would indicate judgment. The judgment belongs to the BU
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
Jimmy

Around here there is not a case of judgement--it is like they are not permitted to step on the outfield grass

Had an instance last year with no out and runners on first and second--ball hit over the head of LF--third base coach can see the ball drop in between the fielder and the fence so he sends runners---second base ump--he never left the infield -- calls catch after much deliberation--home plate ump with his mask still on standing at the plate confirms his call---trust me he saw nothing and just took the high road--triple play as the OF was smart and turned after catching the ball on one hop and threw to second---they were so confused they called my batter out twice, once for flying out and second time for being tagged out when ball returned to infield---opposing coach aplogized to me and my team at innings end and said he owed me a dinner--sad part was it cost us a shot at the finals

Sad Sad Sad !!!
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
Jimmy

Around here there is not a case of judgement--it is like they are not permitted to step on the outfield grass

Had an instance last year with no out and runners on first and second--ball hit over the head of LF--third base coach can see the ball drop in between the fielder and the fence so he sends runners---second base ump--he never left the infield -- calls catch after much deliberation--home plate ump with his mask still on standing at the plate confirms his call---trust me he saw nothing and just took the high road--triple play as the OF was smart and turned after catching the ball on one hop and threw to second---they were so confused they called my batter out twice, once for flying out and second time for being tagged out when ball returned to infield---opposing coach aplogized to me and my team at innings end and said he owed me a dinner--sad part was it cost us a shot at the finals

Sad Sad Sad !!!


What size crew? Two, three?

In a two man crew, in that situation, you would be right, the BU is not allowed to go out.
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
...one of the many compromises and weaknesses of the two many system. Depending on the motion of the LF that could have been BU's or PU's call. PU cannot get close...has the upcoming touch of third and any play at the plate.

BU can't cross the dirt, not only to stay out of traffic but he can't turn his back on his runners and has plays all over the infield.

It's tragic when it affects a game, but it takes a three man crew to comfortably cover that situation.

It's like if the defense had to play with 7 fielders. It wouldn't matter where you put them, eventually they'd miss something.

Any game that important should have a three man crew.
Last edited by Jimmy03

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