Closing the loop

jbddad,

It is too much too ask.
It is a business.
The coaches owe the prospect nothing.
Not even a return phone call.

IMO - It is also a great learning experience for our young players.
It is the real world.

Warts and all.

Itsinthegame is right. Look at it as a young man having a date with your daughter...It’s nothing but a movie and a coke and some small talk. They walk hand in hand and maybe a kiss at the end of the date. Next weekend it may be another girl another movie. Don’t expect an engagement ring unless they both fall in love.
Fungo

I diasagree with the previous two replies, it shouldn't be too much to ask. I don't know about the NCAA getting involved, but it I look at this much as a job candidate interviewing for a job. Once a prospective employer has interviewed you, called you back for a follow up interview, told you he likes what he sees, etc. it's just common courtesy for them to follow up with at least a letter telling you that they've decided to go with someone else. I see no reson coaches can't act as profesionnaly.

jbddad,
This business goes both ways. How many 17-year old prospects do you think "close the loop" on the contact letters/calls they get from college recruiters. Even the serious ones. I encouraged my son to make the tough let-down calls and send letters of regret because it's good business etiquette. He's representing his high school and the college he's turning down may be some underclassman's top choice in the next year or two. That recruiter may forget my son, but he'll remember the courtesy. Did my son make this a priority? Not exactly. Do many teens do this at all? Hardly. Should we expect more from the college side? Yeah, but it's a courtesy, not the subject of NCAA regs. When it does happen, it's a pleasant surprise. I like Fungo's analogy. I guess it's similar to the closure rate when a guy says, "I'll call you" after a first date.

StyleMismatch

It may seem like common courtesy to you, however, many companies DO NOT call back after interviews. The only person notified is the person who gets the job. I know that is the policy in our company and we are one of the largest employers in the US.

jbddad

Fungo has a very good discription of this process when likening it to the dating process. Most folks don't call after a date or two to explain why they are not calling on Friday night. The lack of a call is the only indication you get that the interest is not mutual.

Fungo - great analogy and right on IMO.

jbdad,
that's a fair question and you've gotten all good replys -
however, they're the same points that have always been stressed here -
anyone who's been reading here a while should in no way be surprised by what you describe,
and in fact should be totaly prepared for it
unfortunatly it sinks in "harder" when you experience it than when ya read it

good luck


ps - don't lose sleep over it, but if you do, I see "its'" is "on call" around the clock

I have found that some of the "best" programs around do that. I received some very nice calls last year when some of my kids rotated to the "bottom" of the recruiting list for various schools. The way that I have described the process to parents is that coaches have a "depth chart" for recruits. When they get to a certain comfort level with their top prospects, players start falling off of the chart. I remember one shocking call last year when one of my players fell off of a State University list and yet, was generating more interest from SEC and Big Ten schools. That call enabled my former player to make his choice easier on where to attend.

In my opinion, it is not their job to make the call. It does show some class when they do.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
In my opinion, it is not their job to make the call. It does show some class when they do.

Exactly.

If every coach called back to wish you well somewhere else, you wouldn't be pleasantly surprised by the few that do. I think it shows alot of class when they do that. By the way it is a 2 way street. Kids should make those calls also. As my mom would say "It is just good form."

I see a difference between a personal call and a letter in the mail. Some schools seem to be mass-mailing our house, which gets no response from our son. A personal phone call with a coach saying promising things evaluating your childs performance/character/grades seems very different.

I think the courtesy goes both ways.

If the coach shows an interest with a phone call, he should follow-up if the list changes. At the same time, if my son is not interested, he shouldn't lead a coach on just to pad his list of schools. Common courtesy can be an acquired skill. Age 17 is a great time to learn how to do things right. It was hard for my son to return calls where he was giving bad news to a coach, but its part of the privilege of being recruited. A lot of players wish they had this problem.

I know coaches are busy, but the respect goes both ways.

Jbddad,
The nice thing about the HSBBW is you can learn how the recruiting process works and use it to YOUR advantage. Closing the loop has a real down side for the player. What happens if the coach decides to pass on your son? Let's say he calls and tells your son they have decided to pass and are going to pick player "B". The coach calls player "B" and player "B" declines the offer. Your son who is distraught over being rejected now gets a reprieve. Player "B" has declined and they want your son again. They renew the contacts and everything seems fine until player "C" comes on the radar. But the college wants player "C" over your son. But with your proposed NCAA regulations they have to call your son again and close the loop again. I say keep it the way it is! The talented player will always have more and better options no matter what "rules" are in place. Personally I think the current situation better serves the player than the colleges. In my eyes the player has all his options open until he signs the NLI. Let’s not make it mandatory that a coach call and slam the door in your son’s face.
Fungo

Fungo is right. As they say "It's just business." Good business to leave well enough as it is.

Look, if there were stategic reasons for not closing the loop, then by all means keep your options open. If on the other hand, you think your list is complete, I don't see what it would hurt to make the call. Nobody likes to give bad news. I made (highly encouraged?) my son call the coaches who had been calling him and give them the bad news. He didn't like it, but there are certain principles I believe in.

As noted above above most companies. large and small, do not call or write you to tell you that you did not get the position that you interviewed for.

This being the case why would you expect a college coach to do it

quote:

Is it too much to ask of these coaches that they exhibit common decency and call a player to let him know that they are not going to pursue him?

Jb...Agree 100% with Styles. Disagree with so many others that I can't list them all! You're dealing with the emotions of a 17-18 year old kid, not some "grizzly" old D1 coach with years of experience under his belt/skirt.

My son was heavily recruited and what happened to your son happened to him. When I called the recruiter 3 weeks into the process, he wanted to know why my son hadn't called them. "Because you were the recruiting coordinator; you invited us to a junior day game; and, all of a sudden you disappeared from the screen", I said.

That assistant coach is now a head coach at another program.

Happy to name names (if anyone needs to know)... the school is more noted for football than baseball and is in the Midwest, specifically in Indiana. Had a few "big name" transfers this year, including the son of one of our websters from ***x to LSU.

Any questions, call me.
----

Lastly...Anyone that believes that the NLI helps the student and not the University, is, in my opinion, woefully uninformed. Can use stronger language, but..."In my opinion..."

At the other end of the stick are the calls blessing the player/parent out for NOT picking their school. There are more than one webster who can name those names as well.

I like Fungo's thoughts on this...he's changed my mind a bit on this.

I always thought it a little unfair that the player makes the calls when he crosses schools off his list, but the coaches rarely call when they cross the player off. But the whole thing is a good "growing-up" event for our sons. It IS the beginning of the real world.

I am teaching my son to do business with integrity and class. He called all the schools that had serious interest when he committed. He thanked them and told them he had committed. I think it is classless for coaches who have crossed you off the list to leave you hanging or to lead you on.
This is a learning experience for our sons and we need to point out to them what behavior is acceptable and what is not. Sometimes our sons are the "bigger" guys in the process. As for the programs that left him hanging, or acted unethically, I'm glad he didn't end up on their campuses.
Baseball is business, but why do we excuse bad behavior in baseball business that we wouldn't excuse with our attourney or our banker?

But sometimes they keep you hanging not cuz they've crossed you off their list, but cuz they're waiting for some answers themselves (from other prospects, or where their program needs holes filled, or seeing prospects perform in different conditions). There's a lot of shifting and sifting going on. Fungo is right, the current process can work to your son's advantage, e.g. renewing contact. The leading on happens on both sides. When my son was close to a decision and hadn't heard from a particular school in a while, he called them and told them where he was in the decision process. They hadn't dropped him from their list, they were just at a different stage. As a result of the call, they sped up their end to "get back in the game". Like anything, there are some bad apples out there, but word gets around. It gets around right HERE to some degree, too, thank goodness. HSBBW - a consumer's good friend!

justbaseball

Right on! The recruiting process is great. Good and bad. It is a growing up process.

I would have bet anything that one particular college wanted my kid more than any other college that was recruiting him. They got very luke warm on July 1st. In the middle of July, my son called them and asked them what was up. The coach said he was still on their recruiting list but they were still contacting kids around the country. In my opinion they were trying to keep him in their contingency plans. After receiving that answer, my son informed them that he was committing to another school and he did.

My son also got a couple of those nasty calls from other schools when he committed.

After the 2005 draft, more pressure came. And another tough and major decision had to be made What a great experience!

Be proactive, make sure you have backup plans and don't take it personal, it's is a business.

Just as it is bad busines not to notify job applicants they are not getting a job, it is bad business for colleges not to make these calls to prospective athletes. Most job applicants in my busines are also customers. If I don't follow up and use proper etiquette with a job applicant then I also lose their business. It says worlds about the character of an organization how they handle giving out bad news.

This goes to the character of a coaching staff. This web site should have a list of schools that don't make those follow up phone calls. The NCAA regulates too much already. Believe me, the word would get out quickly which schools have character and those that don't.

jbdDad: You asked a good question and you're getting plenty of good responses. Indeed college baseball is a business and like other businesses if you operate it with the customer in mind and with class chances are very good that you will be successful.

I agree with CoachB25 that the good programs do have class. With everything else being equal they will, by virtue of them having class, snag the better recruits. Obviously recruits must be aware of what Fungo explained,but again with everything else equal where would you advise your son to play?

As far as notifying the coaches that you have declined their offer I believe that this should be done as this really is a 'growing up' experience for your son. He is learning to be respectful of others and showing class. In the real world will people want to deal with your respectful,classy son or someone who is disrepectful and classless.

Remember that baseball teaches us lessons far outside the lines. The recruiting process is not the place to stop learning.

If you have not heard from a coach that has been calling, pick up the phone and call him. Ask him where you stand and what you can expect from them during this process. NCAA rules do not prohibit the number of times YOU can call the coach/recruiter.
As for the nasty phone calls after the fact, they are just re-inforcements that you made the right decision by not accepting them!

jbddad, personally, I agree completely with your view on coaches who cannot pick up the phone or write a letter to to conclude the process. There was certainly a time when I wanted to ask one college coach why he did not follow through with a single communication after the college visit.
But I have learned a tremendous amount from my son through the college baseball process and and now a couple of steps beyond that level. The most important thing he has shown me is that you cannot be distracted by the things you cannot control and the things you can control, you must do with total focus, concentration and effort. I think the recruiting process helped him a bit in this direction.

puma: Way to pounce on that one! I agree.