Clover Hill Forfeits Regional win over DSF

Had to be an odd feeling in the dugout to play for 6 more innings after they were notified of the mistake and pending forfeiture.

All of the materials I have read from the medical profession on youth pitching have focused on the number of pitches thrown as a measure of wear and tear on the arm.  This situation illustrates that the rule should be in terms of pitches thrown, rather than innings pitched.  A rule based upon innings restricts unnecessarily the pitcher who is efficient and permits the poorer pitcher to throw more.  Following the article, the young man could have pitched 7 total innings throwing, let's say, 20 pitches each inning for a total of 140 pitches but could not throw the efficient 8 innings which he did throw with a total of under 100 pitches.

 

 

After 2013 State Championship any coach that doesn't double or triple check pitching eligibility before a game especially a lose and go home game is not doing his job. You can dislike the rules but saying that they are not doing what they are meant to do still doesn't excuse not following them. I think he had plenty of rest and a kid throwing 160 pitches in 9 innings which is allowed under these rules should get a coach fired but you can't blame the rules that we all have to play under.

Feel bad for Coach Mooney and the Clover Hill kids but you have to know what you have going into the game, right? You just can't assume. It sucks for them but the rule is there to protect kids. Graham's example of Derek Casey is case in point. Did overuse before going to UVa lead to TJ? I'd say 100% yes. 

 

In CH case, the rule doesn't seem to fit. But in the absence of a rule, arms get abused. Pitch count is better — but how the heck would you enforce and track that? That would be a nightmare. 

Bottom line is there is a rule, and the coach broke it. Feel bad for the kids, but c'mon this rule has been in effect for awhile. How did this coach pass his preseason rules clinic?

Rich,

 

I agree the rules are in need of some adjustment.  If the VHSL has done one good thing recently it is to protect young arms and I'd rather see them over-protect than under-protect. The Lord knows I'm no fan of the VHSL, but I think they are being reasonable with this rule.

 

As for Clover Hill, I do feel bad for the kids.  We know these kids and played Legion with many of them.  It is unfortunate their season had to end this way.

 

As for the coach, I'm guessing he'll find a new system to count innings pitched in the future.  This isn't too difficult.  Any recreation, travel, high school or college baseball team keeps some sort of pitching log for their team and the other team. Could the moment have been too big where they lost track of innings pitched?  I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but every coach at every level has some type of pitching strategy mapped out before the game even starts.  I just can't figure out how this could ever get overlooked.    

 

I can't put this one on the VHSL.  This is squarely on the coaching staff.  JMO.

VaBaseball1919,

 

That's a pretty serious allegation in regards to the overuse of Derek Casey. Do you have data to support it?

I really don't and I should not have typed it. I made an assumption based upon the 14 innings pitched in one week…I don't know pitch counts, stress pitches, etc. I assume you are the coach or part of the program at Hanover and it's fair for you to call me out. 

 

I just assume when a kid goes to college and then has TJ, he was pitched to death as a teenager. I don't know that it wasn't the case with Casey but it's not something I should have said.

 

 

Fauquier High also had to forfeit their regional championship becuase of pitching rule. 

http://www.fauquiernow.com/ind...-baseball-title-2015

 

I know it is a coaches job to make sure every rule is being followed, but sometimes it can get confusing. Not to make excuses for any coach, and i know why the rule is in place but just saying. 

 

Little League doesn't seem to have a problem tracking pitch counts.  In addition to the normal scorebook there is a sheet the scorekeeper (or anyone else) can keep track of the pitches.  It's not really a big deal. 

 

Back when my son played legion the scorekeeper routinely kept the pitch count even though there was no limitation by pitch count.  Coach wanted to keep track of pitches thrown per player.

The coaches seem to be struggling counting from 1 to 7.  

 

Now you want them to count from 1 to 100?!  The audacity!

 

Rich

www.PlayInSchool.com/bus_tour

Quite often, many programs I'm familiar with uses Game Changer, or similar technology which will track pitch counts for you.  Much easier than the current pitching rules.  

I think the reality is somewhere between nightmare and no big deal. LL doesn't have a problem because the regular season games don't mean much, and the tournament games have a neutral scorekeeper who gets the final say. No one in high school wants to pay for a scorekeeper.

 

However, I do think pitch counts in high school are not only possible, but will happen over the next few years. I think Vermont started using them in 2014. The only real hurdle is resolving count differences. And if a few coaches are dishonest and squeeze one additional batter out of their ace, aren't we still much better off from a big picture standpoint?

 

http://www.vpaonline.org/cms/l...main/14/baseball.pdf

 

I would imagine count differences would be deferred to the "official" scorekeeper.  Usually that is the home team.  No different than resolving scorebook differences.

Gamechanger? That's the worst thing to happen to scoring since the re entry rule. You have 4 people who USUALLY know nothing about baseball scoring a game and giving it legitimacy. That being said some people do okay. But it's a coaches worst nightmare... they might be right in one circumstance and wrong in 10. Pitch count is not as easy as it seems.
High level teams can have a tablet and review an inning quickly.  This takes a delegated dedicated official scorer with knowledge. Not 4 parents with Gamechanger. 
My tablet of choice is a pencil, scorebook and an old man with knowledge.

Colorado goes to pitch counts starting in 2016. However, there is no real enforcement contemplated by the rule. Violations are expected to be self reported and can't be the subject of protest.

You know what... Al Gore invented the internet a few years back.  It is a amazing thing, you should check it out.  They have all kinds of cool stuff on there.  Why I have even seen these thingamajigs called websites out there.  You know what you can do on them?  Types stuff in.  Imagine that. 

 

So just spitballing here.  A coach can put in a name and pitch count.  And the opposing coach can verify it.  I heard it might take something like 2 minutes to do too.  And then guess what?  Everyone can see and use this information.  AMAZING! 

 

I sure wish we would have had some cool stuff like that when I was a kid, but all we had was a Slinky made out of metal.  Man you could cut yourself pretty good with those.  Ahhh good times.

 

 

Slinky? Nah, man. Lawn Darts.

All kidding aside, if the opposing coach validates what is posted (and I agree it should be done on the field after the game before posted to the website) then it requires a conspiracy by 2 coaches to cheat.  I am not even talking about dealing with the I have 83 and you have 82 kind of stuff, on that I am ok with those guys hammering it out at the lower number.  Not perfect to be sure but if caught make the game forfeits, suspend coaches without pay etc. 

 

That these guys want to win games/titles and killing the reputation of a coach that he is honest should be enough to stop most of it.  That is of course unless Bill Belichek is in your district. 

 

Sorry....I couldn't help myself!