Coaches appeal

quote:

Originally posted by Wklink:

I don't think I have ever seen an umpire overrule another ump like that.

With good reason. It is a violation of the rules.

I hope the PU was an inexperienced umpire who didn't know better. If not, I hope the BU redlined him immediately.

Actually nothing happened. The coach on the opposing team actually questioned the plate ump as to how he could just overrule the BU like that? The plate ump just stated-'The goal is to get the call right, that is what I did'. Everyone let it drop from there. This is still youth baseball and there was no reason to get into a huff over something like this.

The BU was an inexperienced, and from past experience watching games, as somewhat less than decisive person. The plate umpire was the experienced one of the group. Even if he knew it was a violation I doubt the field ump would have called him on it.

Thanks for the clarification. It just seemed strange to me. I have never seen an umpire do that to another umpire. I know that if I had been the BU I would have been furious and probably would have done more than said something to him after the game.

I don't care how inexperienced the BU is, the PU has no right to overrule him as stated already. The only thing the PU did was undermine any confidence the BU may have had and absolutely any credibility he may have had with the coaches.
This "Get it right' ** ** that is being used for all types of things drives me crazy. Of course you want to get calls right but the calling umpire also has to get his own calls, make his mistakes and learn his job. Cutting his legs out just makes it tough on all envolved.
Who says he didn't see something from his angle that the PU missed and the PU has now made the call wrong.

quote:

the PU has no right to overrule him as stated already. The only thing the PU did was undermine any confidence the BU may have had and absolutely any credibility he may have had with the coaches.

I could not agree more here. Pre-game plate conference I always reinforce for the coaches to go to the umpire who made the call if there is an issue. The BU is not obligated to get the PU involved if he felt he made the right call and even if I did not agree with his call I would not overule the BU's decision. Now, if asked to confer then I will give the BU my interpretation but if it is judgement based and he was in postition, and wanted ot stand by his call, I would not overturn it.

many years ago in a 10-12 age game (i don't remember exactly) our team was visiting. At the pre game conference the HU stated that if there was a question regarding on the base/off at 1b when the BU was in B, a coach could appeal to him (HU) with respect to that issue. BU was a young ump, just getting started. I don't know if they had talked about it before hand or not. One play that I know of in that game when other team's F3 came off base. BU (in B) called our BR out. After the game, PU said, he was off the base, but no one asked him, played on.

quote:

Originally posted by otownmike:

quote:

the PU has no right to overrule him as stated already. The only thing the PU did was undermine any confidence the BU may have had and absolutely any credibility he may have had with the coaches.

I could not agree more here. Pre-game plate conference I always reinforce for the coaches to go to the umpire who made the call if there is an issue. The BU is not obligated to get the PU involved if he felt he made the right call and even if I did not agree with his call I would not overule the BU's decision. Now, if asked to confer then I will give the BU my interpretation but if it is judgement based and he was in postition, and wanted ot stand by his call, I would not overturn it.

otownmike... argree 100% except for bringing it up a the plate conference... why would you do that? I feel that you are telling the coaches that there is going to be trouble... like telling coaches "Balls, Strikes and Out's are ours" (I hate when my Plate guy says stuff like that during the plate meeting). The Plate meeting is to go over ground rules/playing rules (Fed/NCAA/ORB,and so on) and making sure everyone is properly equipped and any question the coaches may have...

If a situation arises and the coach wants to question a call and heads to the wrong umpire, then either the umpire who made the call yells out to the coach "come to me I made the call,not my partner" or the umpire who the coach goes to needs to direct the coach to the umpire who made the call and DOES NOT discuss the call with the coach. Just point him in the right direction. (this should be discussed in your pre-game if you don't know the umpire. Don't assume he knows what to do or not to do)

Side note: Also don't ever assume you know what the coach is going to ask you about the call and start the conversation with him when he gets to you. Let him start and see what he says and go from there...he may ask you something totally different then you expect... my 2 cents

quote:

Side note: Also don't ever assume you know what the coach is going to ask you about the call and start the conversation with him when he gets to you. Let him start and see what he says and go from there...he may ask you something totally different then you expect... my 2 cents

"it's nothing till you call it"

TX-disagree completely - reminding the coaches at the plate meeting to speak directly with umpire who made the call is good protocol, and hopefully wards off having what you posted , "yells out come to me, I made the call." happen.

Mike,

If it is the protocol for your association to do this in a pregame, you are well adivsed to do it, but for much of the rest of us this is not advised/taught/or reccomended...for many of the reasons that TX has posted....

At the clinics I have attended and in the higher associations that I am a member of (read HS and above) we are to only cover the following items in a pregame...

1.Introductions
2.Ground rules
3.verify properly/legally equipped
4.Have a good game....

In Pa we also have a sportsmanship statement that the UIC MUST read to the coaches....but thats it...2-3 mins tops...

I will let you know that it is a must item that I cover with my partner in our pregame....

quote:

Originally posted by otownmike:

TX-disagree completely - reminding the coaches at the plate meeting to speak directly with umpire who made the call is good protocol, and hopefully wards off having what you posted , "yells out come to me, I made the call." happen.

It is not good protocol. It is an inappropriate subject for the plate meeting and completely unnecessary. If the coach wants to speak to the non-calling umpire, he will get turned away, if the calling umpire hasn't intercepted him already (as he should).

quote:

Originally posted by otownmike:
TX-disagree completely - reminding the coaches at the plate meeting to speak directly with umpire who made the call is good protocol, and hopefully wards off having what you posted , "yells out come to me, I made the call." happen.

Good protocol? Nonsense.

Introductions, exchange/verify line-ups, ground rules, legally equipped (in leagues where appropriate) Have a good game.

No whining about "have'em hustle in and out", no warnings that will set a negative tone and no mention of anythng to do with "coming out." Why start the game with that in the front of their mind.

If something comes up, deal with it then.

Mike... ok bad choice of words "yells out come to me, I made the call" I will use Dashes "intercept".

If the coach starts heading toward my partner on my call I will try to "intercept" him before he gets there. At the same time my partner should be directing him to me and not say anything about the call unless asked... by me "in a private conference" not across the field. Also when we are having our private conversation no jesters, no actions, no demonstrations of what you saw... just give me the facts verbally. Also cover your mouth or look away from the coaches when talking so they "can't read your lips" funny but true... coach said "I read your lips" to me once when he didn't like my ruling.

"check swing appeal is the only one across the field" (i know I will get heat for this one...)

Base guy on a possible pulled foot at 1st, turns and asks out loud to the plate guy "did he pull his foot". If we work together and you do that to me... I will look at you and probably tell you I didn't see anything... LOL make the call then talk with me... if asked by the coach for help.

quote:

Originally posted by TX-Ump74:
Also cover your mouth or look away from the coaches when talking so they "can't read your lips" funny but true... coach said "I read your lips" to me once when he didn't like my ruling.

Can you give more details on this?

quote:

Originally posted by yawetag:

quote:

Originally posted by TX-Ump74:
Also cover your mouth or look away from the coaches when talking so they "can't read your lips" funny but true... coach said "I read your lips" to me once when he didn't like my ruling.

Can you give more details on this?

Yaw.. a few years ago the coach swore he read my lips on a private discussion with my partner who came to me for a conference that did not go his way... he was wrong on what he thought I said to my partner. He told me "I read your lips" so I know what you said and you are wrong... I looked at him with a look of disbelief, chuckled a bit and just said we are "done" talking about it and we are moving on.

quote:

Originally posted by TX-Ump74:
Yaw.. a few years ago the coach swore he read my lips on a private discussion with my partner who came to me for a conference that did not go his way... he was wrong on what he thought I said to my partner. He told me "I read your lips" so I know what you said and you are wrong... I looked at him with a look of disbelief, chuckled a bit and just said we are "done" talking about it and we are moving on.

Got it. When talking to your partner, you shouldn't look toward the coaches. That makes a bit more sense.

I didn't read it correctly. I thought you said "Also cover your mouth or look away from the coaches when talking [to the coach]..."

quote:

Originally posted by yawetag:

I didn't read it correctly. I thought you said "Also cover your mouth or look away from the coaches when talking [to the coach]..."

Shouldn't that be: "Turn your head, cover your mouth and cough"?

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:

quote:

Originally posted by yawetag:

I didn't read it correctly. I thought you said "Also cover your mouth or look away from the coaches when talking [to the coach]..."

Shouldn't that be: "Turn your head, cover your mouth and cough"?

Jimmy - +1 on your new tag line. Now that's funny.

Dash

You may think it is funny but the fact is that todays kids spend more time in the batting cage than they do throwing.

Think about when you walk into Baseball Heaven--how many kids do you see in the cages, they are lined up, compared to the kids that are throwing

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:

Think about when you walk into Baseball Heaven--how many kids do you see in the cages, they are lined up, compared to the kids that are throwing

Right you are TR. Then they get in the batter's box looking to take a strike, and it pleases me immeasurably to give them one. (And more often than not, they wind up looking at the best pitch to hit in the entire A/B.)

TR, I miss your point on that post, I don't know which post you were referencing.

quote:

Originally posted by dash_riprock:

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:

Think about when you walk into Baseball Heaven--how many kids do you see in the cages, they are lined up, compared to the kids that are throwing

Right you are TR. Then they get in the batter's box looking to take a strike, and it pleases me immeasurably to give them one. (And more often than not, they wind up looking at the best pitch to hit in the entire A/B.)

Spend more time umpiring and less time worrying about what pitches the kid swings at......

quote:

At the clinics I have attended and in the higher associations that I am a member of (read HS and above) we are to only cover the following items in a pregame...

1.Introductions
2.Ground rules
3.verify properly/legally equipped
4.Have a good game....

Sorry not to qualify the statement. JV and HS sure becasuse the coaches already know who to go to and the kids always hustle in and out or they will find themselves on the bench. In travel ball tourneys here, especially 13-15 year-old tourneys you have to do more at the plate meeting. Reinforcing pre-game keeps the game running smooth and relatively free of conflict. I guess I should have inidicated tourney/association protocol

quote:

Originally posted by bsballfan:

quote:

Originally posted by dash_riprock:

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:

Think about when you walk into Baseball Heaven--how many kids do you see in the cages, they are lined up, compared to the kids that are throwing

Right you are TR. Then they get in the batter's box looking to take a strike, and it pleases me immeasurably to give them one. (And more often than not, they wind up looking at the best pitch to hit in the entire A/B.)

Spend more time umpiring and less time worrying about what pitches the kid swings at......

I fear you miss understood the genesis of this. The original comment about kids swinging is an observation a coach made and I copied. It is not a worry or concern. I have no concern whatsoever about calling strikes while the batter has his bat on his shoulder.

However, when I'm a spectator, I enjoy the game more when the kids swing the bat.

However, when I'm a spectator, I enjoy the game more when the kids swing the bat.[/QUOTE]

That is something we can agree on!