Coaching 3B

Most common mistake I see from coaches at 3B is that they do not get down the line with a runner coming hard to score. They need to get in to a position where they have an angle on the ball and the runner. If they stand dead center of the coaching box, often the player rounds the base and no longer can see the coach.

As my Econ 101 professor said, "It depends". You need to consider how many outs, throwing arms, base runner speed, scoreboard, etc. Typically, if we have 0 or 1 out I play it conservative. If we have 2 outs we play it more agressively.

And yes, getting down the 3b line helps.

Lefty.

Experience. Your going to make mistakes. Your going to make the right call and get hosed. Your going to make the wrong call and get lucky. But the only way to learn is to do it and that means your going to take some lumps from time to time. There are so man things at play here and there are no real rules because of this. Speed of your runner. How good of a baserunner is he? What kind of secondary lead is he getting? Hard hard was the ball hit? How deep is the RF? What kind of arm does he have? How is he approaching it? What kind of read did he get on it? Grass long or short? Outs, inning, score, who's on deck. On and on it goes.

One thing you can do is get some experience in practice while your working on situations. Put runners on base and have a coach hit fungos with runners. This will not only help you learn it will help your players learn not only from an offensive side but defensive side as well. The more times your in the situation the more you will learn and the better you will get at making the best decisions.

But you have to understand that sometimes you can make the right call and get hosed. And you can make the wrong call and get away with it. All you can do is make the best call based on your experience and your knowledge of the situation and go with it. And when your safe all the fans will say good call even if it wasnt. And when you out all the fans will say bad call even when it was the right call. Thats all part of being a coach.

Nicholas did you realize you started a discussion very similar to this a few weeks ago?

http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...86003481/m/798106545

I thought the previous thread was full of great info by a lot of people. Was there something you were looking for that wasn't answered in it?

Just in this thread you got two power hitters in Coaches May and B25 from the site. Lefty has posted some really good stuff from what I can tell on here.

They all hit the nail on the head - there are so many factors involved it would take a book to talk about them all. It just takes times and experienece. I got a kid thrown out going from first to third on a play that if those exact circumstances were in play 100 times my kid would be safe 99 times. The one time he was out the OF threw a ball that got to the 3B - seriously - two or three inches off the ground just in front of my guys foot. It was literally the most perfect throw I've seen in my life. That throw is anywhere else and my guy is safe. These things happen.

Get in practice and do a lot of live situations / intrasquad / anything so you can work the 3B box.

Mind if I ask you another question - when you first got on here weren't you the asst. coach? Have things changed and your now the head coach? If so then let me congratulate you and if I'm wrong on anything - oops. My bad.

coach2709, I realized I had started a similar thread previously, after startin this one. I am still a varsity assistant and head jv baseball coach. I am in a situation where I get a lot of responsibility (I want it) and have a lot of say, but it's still not the same as being the head man. I am just working hard and continuing to learn until that day arrives. Thanks.

I sometimes miss thread since I can't read this site at work. (Long story!) Anyway, no one steps in to the 3rd base coaching box with the same demeanor, plans ... In talking to a coach today, he mentioned that he called a time out during an at bat and that that wasn't typical. Yet, his gut told him to do it. It is a lot like Coach May was alluding to. EXPERIENCE. Then, you are going to be in a tight game and just gamble. I remember one of the most emotional games I ever coached in. I had a speed deamon on first. They had a CF with a great arm. I know because I coached him the year before. We were only going to get a chance or two and we were in the 10th inning. On a base hit to right center on a hit and run, (Or as I always liked to do, really a run and hit) I brought the runner to 3rd. Then, I noticed that the CF was throwing to 2B and I just gambled. I sent him home and we won. It was crazy and maybe 9 out of 10 times he is out. But on this day with all of the emotions of the day, he was safe. I still read the article on the game every once in a while.

There is so much to be said about the 3B box. I like to build a repore with the other coaching staff and so, on the road, I tried to walk over to get in a word or two. I used motions in the box for different things like get a bigger lead. I used the fist as a signal to the runner at 2nd that I wanted them on 3rd BADLY. However, if they go, they have to be safe. You know that good teams have a player watching you to break your signals. Give them a show. I loved that part of it. Heck, even how you walk over to 3rd when on the road can be beneficial. I hardly ever missed a chance to talk to the Blue. Mostly always positive since you can set a positive mind set for your team that way as they are about to hit. I'm sure others have a lot to say as well so I'll be quiet for a while.

Coach2709, just saw the compliment. THANKS. However, I'm no big hitter. Instead, I'm just an ex expert. Still, I love the game! I will be putting the coaching shoes back on if the school board meeting goes as planned on Dec. 20th. I'll be a softball coach this time and will coach my daughter for her senior year. That will be special.

Coach it was my pleasure to say that about you. You probably don't remember this but when I first came on here I wasn't kinda in a funk with my old school. I posted a few things I guess looking for some outside advice on what to do and you sent me a PM that had some really great things in it. I wish I had saved that PM but unfortunately I didn't. Things didn't work out the way I wanted with my old school but you said some things that gave me perspectice as to what I was looking for.

There are a few people on this site that when they post something I make sure to read it. You, Coach May, Fungo and a few others really have a lot to offer for people to learn from.

I'm very happy for you that you get to coach your daughter's team for her senior year. I wish you the absolute best of luck in it and look forward to some posts to see how it's going.

My biggest thing is knowing where I am in the order, and how many runs we are going to need that day. If it is turning into a slugfest, I'll be more conservative. If we only need one more run, I'll try to make them make a play. Regardless, always know who is coming up, you have to consider it.

Also, I will almost always send guys with 2 outs. If your players know this, they really concentrate on getting a great secondary, a great jump, and expect to be going. Even if you only score 60% of the time, what percent chance do you have with 2 outs and a runner at 3B?

Finally, if a guy can make it 8 out of 10 times, I am going to send them 1st to 3rd. Even when you get thrown out, it puts pressure on the defense the next time you are in that situation, and good things will happen for the offense.

One thing I forgot, is make sure your backside runners are moving up on throws. There is nothing more frustrating than a runner on 2B, 2 outs, routine 1B to LF, you are sending the runner home, and your hitter is stuck on 1B. You really have to concentrate on moving backside guys up, as you can "single" people to death, and with less than 2 outs, stay out of double plays.

Thanks coach it means a lot coming from a person like you.

You can never coach or should ever coach a runner that has passed you up. Once you send the runner home your attention needs to be focused on the backside runner. But the backside runner must be running the based not looking for you to run them for him. There are times to send the runner hoping he gets thrown out at 2b so you can score the run without a throw. There are times to send the runner knowing the throw is going to the dish. There are times to send the runner knowing that the ball can not be cut based on the throw itself. There are times to send the runner because the reward is worth the risk. There are times to not send the runner when the risk is not worth the reward. On and on it goes once again.

The level of play, the quality of the competition will dictate many times what you can and can not do. The level that the team is coached at and capable of playing cut plays at will as well. Its another reason why watching infield before a game is so important as a coach. You read arm strength, you can read accuracy, you can see how well they are coached at the cut game.

No one can say run in this situation or dont run in this one. There are no rules that are set in stone. With two outs and a runner on second the runner is taught to score on a base hit. What this means is he is scoring unless he is stopped. Your not going to try and score if a one hop seed is hit to the left fielder and he is playing shallow and he has a great arm when you have no chance of scoring just because there are two outs. What your teaching your runners at 2b with 2 outs is this "Your not looking for me to send you home. You are scoring on a hit and you are running unless I stop you. So dont look for me to bring you because you are scroring unless I stop you." "Your going to work an agressive secondary lead to the point if the ball is not struck you have to bust your butt back to 2b and dive back in to not get picked. On every pitch." Now how much you can get will depend on several factors. How quick is the base runner? How good is the catchers arm? Is the field wet, damp, is there loose turface, or does the field give good grip? How good of a base runner are you? What have you found as a player given the circumstances allows you the max secondary lead where you can still get back?

You have a lot better chance of scoring from second base with 2 outs on one hit than you do of scoring from 3rd base on two consecutive hits. But you have no chance to score if you try and score in a situation where you have no shot. So the runner is scoring unless you stop him and you have to make the call based on many factors. But one of them is not just because there is 2 outs and your on second base.

Going from 1st to 3rd is something that a team has to have "a team mentality of being aggressive." The players already knows when the ball is hit he is going 1st to 3rd. And the only thing that is going to stop him is the coach. If he has to be told to come to 3rd then many times he will check up as he is waiting for the call to come to 3rd. That slight hesitation or stop and go mentality many times is the difference.

What you can get away with against a poorly coached team, a poor quality team you will not get away with against a well coached team with quality players. So what we are talking about can vary depending on the level of your play and the quality of the players playing the game.

The bottom line is know your players. Know the other teams players. Know the situation. Know the game. If an outfielder is running glove side when fielding a ball away from the throw that gives you an edge. If he is running arm side towards his throw on the fielding of the ball that gives them an edge. There are so many factors at play here. Put yourself and your team in as many of these situations in practice as you can. They get experience and you do as well. And then work on every pitch. Work on every situation in game situations with the same intensity as if it was the most important play and running / non running situation of the season every time. Because when it becomes a critical situation you cant all of a sudden decide to take it with the same intensity.

When you force teams to play station to station and punish them for mistakes you force them to get more hits to score runs. Whey you punish them for making mistakes in the cut game and you take bags you allow yourself to score more runs with less hits. Its a critical part of the game. Just some thoughts.

quote:

You have a lot better chance of scoring from second base with 2 outs on one hit than you do of scoring from 3rd base on two consecutive hits.

??? I know you mean 1B not 3B...

No. What I was saying is if your on 2b with two outs you want to score on a base hit so because your chances of getting two straight two out hits is much slimmer. So if you stop the runner at 3rd on a 2 out hit because you dont think you can score your going to need another two out hit to score him. So a lot of coaches will push it with 2 outs and take more chances trying to score from 2nd with 2 outs. But if your coaching 3rd in this situation and you know you have no shot because of a situation like a described above its better to give the hitter a shot of driving him in than running into an obvious 3rd out at the plate.

Especially at the lower levels where passed balls, wild pitches and errors are more frequent.

one of the more frustrating things in baseball IMO is to hold the runner up in a close game with two outs only to see the throw get away from the catcher. Then have the inning end with out scoring the run.

The following coaching miscue almost cost us a huge ballgame this summer when I was coaching 3B--

We had runners at first and second. Our batter singled to CF. I windmilled and pointed for our R2 to go home and score. Then, immediately after he passed me, I put up a stop sign and yelled to our backside runner (slow runner, not smart on the bases) to "hold up!" and remain at second (correct decision, you'd agree if you knew him and saw the situation unfold).

But, wouldn't you know (Murphy's Law?) my runner headed for home heard my "hold up!" which was intended for the backside runner and slammed on the brakes and returned to third even though he would have scored.

Proper positioning? When I windmilled our R2 to score, I stayed in the 3B coach's box because my priority was being in a good position to make sure my goofy backside baserunner kept himself out of trouble. But by not being down the 3B baseline, I was in a bad position to totally sell my runner going home that he had to score on the play. Live and learn.

My worst ever:
Elimination game exta innings. We're home and down by one with no outs. Runners 3B and 2B. Fastest runner on team at 3B, 3rd fastest at 2B. Best bunter at the plate.(not a strong hitter-subject to the stike out a lot) feeling pretty good until...
Have safety squeeze on an actually have a chance to talk to R3 (defensive time out) and emphatically tell him make sure the ball is bunted down and not straight back to the pitcher or laying in front of the catcher. Simple.

Batter bunts a one hopper back to the pitcher and R3 bolts for home. I'm yelling BACK!!!! but he's committed. He gets nearly home then they of course tag him out. I'm so involved with him I don't notice now the have my R2 hung up and they get him out diving in to 3B. My BR is watching the whole thing and stays at 1B. Two outs.

So I have my 2nd fastest guy at 1B now and think we need to steal a base here. Don't you know he takes off and they throw him out. Game/ tournament over.

cball,

Man, I can relate to that.

You did a good job, but it blew up in your face.

How about when you do a bad job and it gets your team eliminated? There's nothing worse for a base coach, since you want to either help your team win or, at the least, not cause them to lose.

Years back, I was coaching 1B (not 3B) and basically caused my team to be eliminated from the state semi-finals. Runners at first and second. Medium-length passed ball. Runner at second broke hard for third. I yelled "go" (oops!) to our runner at first. He sprinted to second, but R2 slammed on the brakes and returned to second. Now we've got two runners there. Long story short: that cost us the ballgame.

I will never make that mistake again. I will never make that mistake again. I will....

They were only ten so I take responsibilty for just not assuming R3 was toast and then focusing on getting the other two moved up. Comes with the job, but I just got too excited.

The other team executed perfectly.

quote:

Originally posted by cball:
They were only ten so I take responsibilty for just not assuming R3 was toast and then focusing on getting the other two moved up. Comes with the job, but I just got too excited.

The other team executed perfectly.

As a 3B coach, it takes mental disciple to re-focus on getting your backside runners moved up once you realize that your R3 is caught in a rundown between third and home.

Example: runners at sec. and third. Contact play is on. I ALWAYS remind myself ahead of time that my job as a 3B coach on this play is to make sure my backside runner advances to third if my R3 gets hung up on a comebacker, etc.

I'm a real good 3B coach, but I'm not a natural like a lot of guys. I have to consciously work hard mentally to do a good job.

A couple of areas that really help me.
1. Know the defense. Watch the arms and know which outfielders you can challenge right away.
2. Watch the defensive positioning. Are they shallow and able to get the ball in faster? Are they deeper and will make a longer throw? Are they playing the lines, or gaps?
3. Your positioning. With a runner at first stand to the third base side of the box as far as you can get, to allow the runner going to second to see you easily as they approach. With a runner at 2nd, stand to the home plate side down the line as far as you can to let the runner see you easily and to give yourself time to read the play.
4. I keep our runners very aggressive. We think two bases on every ball to the outfield unless told to stop. If the defense holds us to one, so be it. I have found it is easier to have a player hit the breaks when they see the outfield make a play rather than to crank them up and get them going.