College banning composite bats

Follow up from the manufacturer when questioned about the ban.

"I got the memo directly from NCAA Baseball Rules Committee because I am a bat manufacturer. This is a long time coming. The inter-layer delamination of resin-over-fiber composites that allows the bats to improve with use and ultimately fail has been the 800 lb gorilla in the room for several years. Easton built bats to illustrate it, ASA made a protocol to try to stop it and NCAA stepped up and yelled foul. I thought it was significant news so I brought it here.

More from the memo:

"The research reviewed included compliance testing during the Division I Baseball Championship. During this testing, 80 percent of the composite bats tested failed the current NCAA performance level. Because all bat designs must pass this test before mass production, this research indicates that the performance of such bats changed thereafter, most likely due to repeated, normal use and/or intentional alteration. Offensive statistics at the Division I level also indicate a significant increase in batting averages and home runs the past two seasons."

You really have two choices, believe me now and avoid the rush or wait until the excrement officially hits the oscillating wind maker. Your call"

I believe him.

If this is the case, will high schools follow suit? I was just about to buy my son a composite. Will the BESR certification be pulled from current composites?

Who knows what individual states will do or when. But I would think that they would follow the NCAA's lead like they have done in the past. Maybe some of the old timers could tell us how fast the HS's outlawed -5's after the NCAA pulled them.

Wow Dman this could become a huge issue.

What about those of us who just purchased bats? I can see a HUGE liability for the bat manufacturers. Think about their supply chain, tons of material, tons of stock...wow.

I wish the NCAA would take the next step and just go to wood in college. Would be a great step that would really restore the game. Won't happen, but would be nice.

Keep us posted.

If this is true, it is welcome news. My sons D1 college team played a conference foe widely known for rolling their composite bats and the difference was noticeable. In one game opposing player went 0-3 first three at bats, then when coming up with bases loaded switched to the blue Easton bat being passed from teammate to teammate and "popped" a slam over the centerfield fence ---- the sound was noticeably different. Cheating of any kind disrespects the game and must be stopped. If we are going to make such an effort to police steroids, we must also police the equipment being used. Cleanest solution is to ban composite bats.

I just read a compelling article specifically about "rolling" composite bats in the latest issue of Collegiate Baseball. I hadn't even heard of this until now. They have been juicing these bats and one can even buy a machine and do the "rolling" at home. Another company claims that their bats would pass any inspection. There were 15 or so bats confiscated at the CWS and while it didn't say that all of these had been "rolled", it left that impression.

It kind of made me wonder about the CWS. Guys that had only 2 or less home runs for the season end up with 3 or more in the series. Was it the player stepping up or the bats being so hot?

I just recently heard of this "rolling" and sure enough there are several YouTubes "bragging" about how to roll your bat... and shaving: now is that supposed to be a joke on me or do they claim shaving the bat makes it perform better too?

Any change isn't likely until the 2011 season.

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
It kind of made me wonder about the CWS. Guys that had only 2 or less home runs for the season end up with 3 or more in the series. Was it the player stepping up or the bats being so hot?

That's a tough one, because of the wind factor and also because pitchers don't pitch as carefully to those type of guys.

What I find interesting, some really good college hitters struggling with wood, in pro and in summer leagues. Makes you kind of wonder... and if they have been using bats they shouldn't have been, I think that stinks for the pitchers.

JMO.

I'm an adult slow pitch softball player. This is really old news regarding the shaving and rolling of the composites to us. It's been, and is, a huge problem in the slow pitch game. The bat issues are why you see so many tournament and league pitchers wearing helmets/face masks.

Until the schools on all levels and the various associations take responsibility for this safety issue, everyone on the field is at risk. I don't care about the HR's and averages - it's the safety issue to me.

One answer: Wood... roll it all you want; shave it if it makes you feel good!

quote:

Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
One answer: Wood... roll it all you want; shave it if it makes you feel good!

Or cork it!

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
It kind of made me wonder about the CWS. Guys that had only 2 or less home runs for the season end up with 3 or more in the series. Was it the player stepping up or the bats being so hot?

Bats at the CWS were all tested and certified with a non removable sticker. During the testing, a number of bats were confiscated and not certified.

The players you are referring to are Texas players. Their home field may be the best pitchers park in country. 405 to dead center with a 25 foot wall and 425 to the power alleys. It is ginourmous, and the prevailing winds and Texas heat knock everything down. Hitting a homer at Disch-Falk field is a true achievement.

quote:

Bats at the CWS were all tested and certified with a non removable sticker. During the testing, a number of bats were confiscated and not certified.

The players you are referring to are Texas players. Their home field may be the best pitchers park in country. 405 to dead center with a 25 foot wall and 425 to the power alleys. It is ginourmous, and the prevailing winds and Texas heat knock everything down. Hitting a homer at Disch-Falk field is a true achievement.

Great clarification, CPLZ

CPLZ,
Couldn't they roll the bats after they had been tested or did they test them before every game? I don't think there is any way to know unless the NCAA confiscated all bats after the games and then handed them back out before the next game.

Texas is a heckuva big park! Didn't they play any away games?

TPM: Or Cork! Touche`... that's a good one

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
CPLZ,
Couldn't they roll the bats after they had been tested or did they test them before every game? I don't think there is any way to know unless the NCAA confiscated all bats after the games and then handed them back out before the next game.

Texas is a heckuva big park! Didn't they play any away games?

DM,
Yup, they could have rolled the bats after the testing, unless the bats were maintained at the facility, which I'm not sure of. We are getting into the conspiracy theory world now however...and if I remember correctly, Texas used aluminum, but I could be wrong on that one.

Of Texas' 56 regular season games, they only played 16 away games. This type of scheduling is common among good weather powerhouses like Texas and LSU.

check this out
http://www.nfhs.org/web/2009/0...es_changes_incl.aspx

quote:

Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
One answer: Wood... roll it all you want; shave it if it makes you feel good!

Not to sound indelicate, but you can also bone your wooden bat.

We used to do it in high school in the '70s.

"A well kept secret about caring for wooden bats is, “Boning the Bat.” This sounds a little weird and not many people know about it. It originated from old players taking an old cow bone or animal bone that is smooth and rubbing it on the bat with a great amount of pressure. Wood is soft, even the hardest wood. By boning it the bat will not chip, look bad and it will remain shiny."

quote:

Originally posted by Krakatoa:

quote:

Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
One answer: Wood... roll it all you want; shave it if it makes you feel good!

Not to sound indelicate, but you can also bone your wooden bat.

We used to do it in high school in the '70s.

"A well kept secret about caring for wooden bats is, “Boning the Bat.” This sounds a little weird and not many people know about it. It originated from old players taking an old cow bone or animal bone that is smooth and rubbing it on the bat with a great amount of pressure. Wood is soft, even the hardest wood. By boning it the bat will not chip, look bad and it will remain shiny."

So you were looking for every advantage over the standard equipment back in the '70's as well!

Oh yeah....especially in the cold-weather states!

Told my son about 3 years ago about boning a bat, he thought I was nuts. Showed him how to do it and he has been doing ever since. It's funny, he has been doing it to his older pine bat and has no nicks or chips in it, but didn't do it to his new maple bat and it cracked at the handle yesterday.
He was mad and said he forgot to bone the bat. Really don't know if it actually works, but mentally, for him it does.
One other note: His dog is really mad, because he keeps taking the dog's bones.

quote:

Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
One answer: Wood... roll it all you want; shave it if it makes you feel good!

Funny thing happened yesterday at my son's game.He is in youth baseball and because he practices so much with wood bats,he feels he can hit just as good with the wood as his composite/aluminum bat.

He steps to the plate yesterday with his wood bat,umpire stops the game and checks with opposing coach is he will allow my son to hit with his wood bat.The agent for the league was next to me talking story and he vouched for my son saying there is no rule not allowing it.Game went on...I have never seen a game stopped for a kid with a composite bat and questioned if it was rolled.

Which is more dangerous?I would prefer my son playing against players with wood any day.

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
CPLZ,
Couldn't they roll the bats after they had been tested or did they test them before every game? I don't think there is any way to know unless the NCAA confiscated all bats after the games and then handed them back out before the next game.

Texas is a heckuva big park! Didn't they play any away games?

DM,
Yup, they could have rolled the bats after the testing, unless the bats were maintained at the facility, which I'm not sure of. We are getting into the conspiracy theory world now however...and if I remember correctly, Texas used aluminum, but I could be wrong on that one.

Of Texas' 56 regular season games, they only played 16 away games. This type of scheduling is common among good weather powerhouses like Texas and LSU.

Yes, Texas was using aluminum bats not composites, so rolling would not have been an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Sugi:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
One answer: Wood... roll it all you want; shave it if it makes you feel good!

Funny thing happened yesterday at my son's game.He is in youth baseball and because he practices so much with wood bats,he feels he can hit just as good with the wood as his composite/aluminum bat.

He steps to the plate yesterday with his wood bat,umpire stops the game and checks with opposing coach is he will allow my son to hit with his wood bat.The agent for the league was next to me talking story and he vouched for my son saying there is no rule not allowing it.Game went on...I have never seen a game stopped for a kid with a composite bat and questioned if it was rolled.



There is no excuse for an Umpire to not know that wood bats are legal for all levels of play....in all codes.....

Here's some info and opinion on the composite bat issue from Kettering.

Russell Article

The site says that the memo went to all ADs, conference commissioners, and head baseball coaches, and that the proposal will be voted on later this summer.

It sounds to me that if a player or a Univ.
uses an illegal bat, that there setting themselves up for a lawsuit if that said bat injures a player ( pitcher ).

EH

If NCAA is bringing out the safety card, I would bet that composites are gone. Just my thoughts but I have always noted in everything, when you talk about safety for kids, they actually mean lawsuits.

NCAA will ban them to protect themselves against being sued.

They are gone!

MEMORANDUM

July 17, 2009

TO: College Baseball Bat Manufacturers.

FROM: Bob Brontsema, chair
NCAA Baseball Rules Committee.

SUBJECT: Composite Bat Moratorium.

This correspondence is being sent on behalf of the Baseball Rules Committee, alerting the college baseball bat manufacturing community to an important action being taken in regard to certain bats that have been used in NCAA competition. After significant dialog and review of research collected during the Division I Baseball Championship, the committee is proposing an immediate and indefinite moratorium on the use of composite barreled bats. The committee believes this action is needed in order to protect the integrity of the game and to enhance the safety of the student-athletes.

Before the committee’s recent meeting, numerous concerns were voiced by the membership with a request for action. After a thorough review of compliance testing and a review of the improved performance of composite bats, often exceeding NCAA acceptable limits, these concerns have proven to be valid. Therefore, the committee has decided to put an immediate and indefinite moratorium on the use of composite bats in NCAA competition.

The research reviewed included compliance testing during the Division I Baseball Championship. During this testing, 80 percent of the composite bats tested failed the current NCAA performance level. Because all bat designs must pass this test before mass production, this research indicates that the performance of such bats changed thereafter, most likely due to repeated, normal use and/or intentional alteration. Offensive statistics at the Division I level also indicate a significant increase in batting averages and home runs the past two seasons.

By proposing a moratorium, the committee is not necessarily discarding the possibility of a return of composite bats to NCAA competition at some point in the future, and looks forward to working with manufacturers in an attempt to find a solution towards that end.

The committee requests your feedback and proposed solutions to this issue. Please send any feedback to xx ****** at the NCAA (******x@ncaa.org).

Thank you for your attention to this memorandum.

BB:nkb

quote:

They are gone!

Not so fast, big guy!
There has been, so far as I can see, only one communication from the NCAA, sent on July 17. It announces a proposal and asks for feedback. According to the website I linked above, the proposal "will be considered and voted on by the Playing Rules Oversight Panel later this summer."

I expect that the proposal will be adopted--or perhaps that is just my wishful thinking. But based on the information available right now, I don't think anything has been decided yet.

Edited to add:
The NCAA press release says "The NCAA Playing Rules Oversight Panel must approve the committee’s proposal before the moratorium can be implemented. The proposal will be sent to the membership for comment and PROP will review the responses. PROP’s next conference-call meeting is scheduled for July 29.

quote:

Therefore, the committee has decided to put an immediate and indefinite moratorium on the use of composite bats in NCAA competition.

This part looks like it is gone. I didn't know they had to go through more approvals. But I would find it hard to believe they would approve the bats if they have already come out and said they are unsafe. One kid gets hurt and they are toast in a lawsuit. We shall see.

Regardless of what the Oversight Panel decides,the foundation for a lawsuit has been laid.I dont think they can let this one go .The link I posted on the 1st page of this thread regarding the NFHS is not as clear. It mentions composites and 2 piece bats. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Exogrid is a 2 piece and it has composite eventough it is in the handle.What about the Synergy? 1 piece but composite barrel.

I hope HS waits a year. I would hate to have to buy a new bat. Again. Plus which bats are legal? Tough to know. No hand me down bats, craigs list and ebay will be tougher. I wonder if you can get your bat inspected to get the approval sticker? What a mess. I expect to see a ton of composites for sale in the next few weeks.

sorry after rereading the link I posted it does NOT mention composites at all. It talks about the bats being a smooth cylinder.

nothing is in stone yet. their proposing this action.

The BESR standard will be going away in 2011 for college and 2012 for HS. Being replaced with the BBCOR standard in witch the bats are suppose to be more wood like in there performance. Remains to be seen if the sweet spot will remain as large.

Change is being driven by safety and by pro input they are tired of paying for HS and College studs that cant hit above the Mendoza line with wood.

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
I wonder if you can get your bat inspected to get the approval sticker? What a mess.

From a pitchers perspective this is awesome.... Of course the only real way to insure compliance is by going all wood.

They are gone. The NCAA Rules Oversight Panel approved the Baseball Rules Cmtee. proposal.
They left open a tiny crack because the bat makers are freaking. It is a longshot in my opinion that they can guarantee BESRs through the life of a bat by the start of 2010. Keep in mind, 20 out of 25 bats flunked the World Series spot check. The 2010 bats are already made and are on the racks.

Here's the NCAA press release (Aug. 24, 2009)
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?k...on+on+composite+bats
Here's my take on it and the financial hit bat makers are likely to take, given some assumptions. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
http://www.hitpitchcatch.com/b...ws-publications.html